Difficult one this, where do you draw the line.
Often any such accidents occur many vehicles back and out of sight of the slow moving vehicle anyway, so even if the slow mover has working flashing beacons, rare enough in itself, they won't have warned the cars several dozen back in the pack.
Troube is people travel too close to the vehicle in front and don't observe far enough forward...then you've got the non working brake lights and the modern led rear lights as fitted to certain cars that are almost impossible to see in sunlight.
Things like this will always happen, and all the safety gadgets in the world won't change that.
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I can sympathise with the sentiments in the OP, but then I think "Why should a certain class of vehicle be restricted because a few people are too stupid to avoid ramming it from behind?"
Personally I would like to see rear ending incur a more or less automatic ban of a short duration (for the first one anyway). Nothing is more frustrating than getting out to see what damage has been caused by some numpty who is too stupid to realise he/she can't possibly stop in time to avoid a clearly visible vehicle travelling in the same direction.
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Restrictions have already been placed on slow-moving vehicles-now banned from using these roads in "rush-hour" but with so many exceptions as to render the new regs. useless.
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There are some quite scary old high-G dual carriageways - the A34 from the M4 to Winchester springs to mind - that are good fun and used by long-distance commuters as sort of glorified rat runs. People go quite fast on them and all is usually well in dry daylight conditions. Trouble with that sort of traffic though - and with drivers like me until quite recently - is that it doesn't really slow down enough when it is dark and raining. I had a very, very close one on the A34 once and was saved by a brilliant lorry driver who although I don't know him is a driving hero of mine.
People talk some sense and a bit of guff about 'always driving at such a speed that you can stop for any hazard'. We don't actually quite always do that. In a recent case for example someone hit a stationary car at night sideways in the outside lane of a motorway. In the rain of course. A busy motorway in the wet, one with curves, is a damn dangerous place.
As for tractors, I was nearly done in on the morning of my mother's funeral by some turnip-guzzler in a tractor and trailer who neither knew nor cared that my car was batting towards him at sixty or seventy on a narrow, very straight rural B road in Somerset as he charged very slowly into the road from a field and turned left... that was the way the yokel was looking I guess. Phew.
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I would support a ban without hesitation. There's a similar situation with tractors on the A55 across Anglesey (main expressway from the Holyhead ferries, with many,many big continental lorries). Thing is, even they're spotted, 40-ton lorries jostle & pull out in a hair-raising way to maintain their 'position' & momentum - I foresee a mega pile-up one day.
The tractors (and maybe this is true of the A38 example) are using the expressway for their own convenience - there are alternatives - but inconvience (or worse) in the process.
If it's of absolute vital importance to move their 20 tons of muck around, I'd suggest they get a commercial carrier - otherwise please arrange your businesses & lives a bit better so you don't have use high speed arterial roads.
What makes matters worse is that an odd syndrome always seems to affect these tractorists: they seem to forget completely that they're supposed to obey the HC & make at least some attempt to drive with due regard to other road users & assume a level mind reading prescience in other orad users when they suddenly veer off down some muddy track or stop without warning at a field entrance.
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Tractors and other classes of vehicles are banned on motorways, so why not dual carriageways where the speed limit is the same .
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The A64 usefulness as a dual carriageway with a national speed limit along most of its length is severely restricted by the endless procession of tractors down it. You know when a tractor is about because your speed drops to 40 mph and you are in a mile long queue waiting to pass the darn thing.
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If it's of absolute vital importance to move their 20 tons of muck around I'd suggest they get a commercial carrier ->>
they seem to forget completely that they're supposed to obey the HC & make at least some attempt to drive with due regard to other road users & assume a level mind reading prescience in other orad users when they suddenly veer off down some muddy track or stop without warning at a field entrance.
Most of them ARE commercial carriers. or at least agricultural conractors, see my post below. They'd still put the muck on tractors and trailers anyway; I assume you've never tried driving an artic onto a ploughed field, but I'm sure you can imagine the likely consequences.
Just for the benefit of drivers with the same mindset as you BTW; the countryside is a working environment. It's not a theme park, nor a bit of carefully-tended prettification to soothe your tortured soul as you dash from one city to the next.
The muddy tracks tend to lead to farms. They belong to the people who work a damn sight more hours than you probably do, and in far worse conditions than you would probably tolerate, to keep your gut full.
Eaten today? Then thank a farmer.
Edited by Harleyman on 13/04/2009 at 20:57
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Thing is even they're spotted 40-ton lorries jostle & pull out in a hair-raising way to maintain their 'position' & momentum - I foresee a mega pile-up one day.
It feels to me that we're trying to solve the wrong problem. Rather than (or perhaps as well as) banning the tractors, these truck drivers should be being pulled over for dangerous driving.
But ... most lorry drivers I meet are better drivers than most car drivers I meet.
Edited by Marlot on 13/04/2009 at 22:39
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The anti farmer rants from Lud and Woodbines are rather ignorant IMO, especially calling farmers turnip guzzlers and yokels. Try and grow up, some farmers are quite intelligent. Lud, should you be driving at 70mph on a B road.
Tractors are allowed on dual carriageways with a flashing beacon. Farmers don't like driving on dual carriageways but sometimes we have to, do you want to eat?
Yes there are some bad farming drivers, as there are bad drivers in every profession.
ARRRRRRRRRRRR the answer lies in the soil.
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What could you mean quizman? Some of my best friends are farmers. I have nothing against them at all - indeed not long ago I was defending their right to get mud on the roads and calling other people wimps for complaining about it. And I made no comment on their driving tractors on dual carriageways.
I don't think the mangel-wurzel-gnawing tractor driver who didn't bother to look not all that far down a straight open road before driving into it would ever have become a friend of mine though. He's probably fallen into a combine harvester by now, and good riddance.
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I was following one of those JCB tractors ( like the one JC had on TG ) at nearly 45 mph on a fairly twisting country road, albeit a B-road.
It seemed to handle well enough so I would say dont restrict types of vehicles, but ban vehicles that cannot maintain a reasonable speed in comparison with the speed limit.
I would like to see these faster tractors used more as they negate the need for overtaking for the most part, on roads they are normally found on.
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I doubt whether farmers use these class of roads out of choice - possibly because they are the only links between bits of land which in all likelihood were split asunder by the building of these roads - using them is a calculated risk for them I would imagine. Farmers are astute business people otherwise they wouldn't survive in their chosen line of work. Don't underestimate their intellect.
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i find the tractors near me and im talking things the size of large houses are usually driven by young kids with bum fluff and they drive very arrogantly in them,
i guess they can drive these things from the age of 5 or something as silly
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No bell boy they can't drive at 5. You can drive a tractor on the road at the age of 16 if you have passed a tractor driving test.
Most farmers are careful to make sure everything is safe on the road. We are hounded by health and safety people.
Most tractors will do 25 mph, but legally you can only do 20 mph, except on some tractors and trailers with air brakes like the JCB tractors mentioned.
Hauliers are furious that farmers can cart their produce with these fast tractors long distances, it undercuts their rates.
As for bum fluff, well Jenson seems to be driving OK at the moment.
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I would suggest that those of us who live in, or drive around the countryside are quite used to tractors. Those who don't, aren't, and they tend to be the ones who hit them.
One thing quizman hasn't mentioned is that a lot of these tractors are the ones used by the contractors who go from farm to farm doing various jobs; muck-spreading, silage, harvesting, etc. It simply isn't viable for many farmers to have all the necessary tackle themselves so the only answer is to sub it out; that's why you see so many convoys on the roads.
Read the road ahead properly and drive accordingly.Drive down a city road and see people queuing at a bus stop, expect a bus to be about. If you're driving down a rural dual carriageway and you see fresh mud on the road, or newly-mown grass in the fields, expect tractors to be about.
Quizman, slightly off-topic but in answer to your comment, I do think hauliers are right to be peeved. Fast-Tracs can do journey times nearly as quick as artics, why then should they not be subject to O-licence, vehicle maintenence and tachograph regulations like we are?
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If fast tractors were banned from the roads, the firm who would suffer most would be JCB, which are made in this country not far from my farm.
On another post we are urged to buy British, so I would be upset if JCBs were banished from the roads.
I can see why lorry drivers are upset as well. I don't know what the answer is.
I suppose if tractors were banned from fast roads, they would have to go through towns and villages. I wonder what people would have to say then.
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I can understand the call for a ban based on congestion. But to ban based on safety of people who can't look ahead on the road is another step towards our motoring insanity. We're getting closer and closer to a 50mph universal speed limit to cater for the lowest denominator, rather than having police who pull people over for careless driving and help them improve. I saw at least 100 people driving too close, with poor lane discipline and/or on their mobile phones on a 100-mile motorway run today. Two of them were police car drivers.
We're in danger of the first time people hearing that their careless and dangerous driving is a problem is when they're involved in a fatal collision.
Pushbikes are also allowed on dual carriageways, but its been a while since I last tried it - the observation levels of most drivers make it just too dangerous nowadays!
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OP may be right when he says >> There aren't any specific details but having driven this section of road hundreds of times I would guess that they ploughed into the back of the tractor. >> but there is nothing in the report to say that's the case.
What is clear is that the accident happened at 8.45 in the morning on a day with good visibility. I wouldn't want to blame any one at this stage.
I wouldn't ban tractors from dual carriageways. I'd like to see them pull over every so often on ordinary roads to let the queue go by.
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The answer, quizman, is to subject fastraks to the same operators licence restrictions and vehicle legislation as lorries are.
As for the other critical posts on this thread, I have read it with amazement.
I cannot believe that people can suggest a ban on anything that impedes their ability to drive at a speed of their choosing.
The road doesn't belong to car drivers.
It's not your 'right' to be able to proceed across this country at any speed you choose.
The national speed limit is not a target, it's a maximum to be considered along with a lot of common sense.
The blame with any rear end shunt, is always with the person who fails to stop, and so it should be.
If more drivers observed the road ahead, instead of at the front of their bonnet, this would never happen.
Living in the Fens means we have all types of agricultural machinery on the local roads, some of it enormous but the one thing farmers can never understand is that if it requires a vehicle to accompany it with flashing lights, it has to drive ahead of it.
This applies on dual carriageways as well, when surely it would be far more use at the rear.
I'm sure the farmers on here will correct me if my understanding of this anomaly is wrong!
Pat
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Thats a good point about pushbikes, Marlot, I used to cycle down them all the time when I was a kid, but I certainly wouldn't risk it now... not because of the amount of traffic but that there are too many people who don't observe the road ahead properly and believe, as PDA says, that they should be able to drive at any speed regardless of others.
My answer to the OP is therefore, No, they shouldn't be.
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Ever heard of ' majority " rule. ? The minority are the tractor / farm machinery users. Therefor to have this minority dictating that perfectly safe, NSL roads be reduced to 30 mph at their choosing , is wrong in my view.
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Majority rule would have to be applied across the board though Mr X and since you routinely disagree with the majority views on here, you would be shipped off to an island somewhere with your minority. Be careful what you wish for.
Roads are always safe, its drivers who arent. Ive never had trouble with tractors but then I live out in the sticks and know what they look like. I guess maybe townies would find them challenging.
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Switch your brains on ,the cost of providing alternative roads alongside dual carraigeways wouls stop any such proposal in its tracks as what in effect you are saying is to make all dual carraigeways motorways ,the next move would be to stop all traffic from crossing dual carraigeways (maybe no bad thing putting up flyovers )
if there is one thing this weak pound will make everyone realise it is that food production in this country is needed
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I always thought that tractors were designed the way they are so as to enable them to cross fields ...... looks like we have a new generation of farmers who treat them like those townies who drive 4X4's, i.e, they don't like to get them dirty.
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I always thought that tractors were designed the way they are so as to enable them to cross fields ...... looks like we have a new generation of farmers who treat them like those townies who drive 4X4's i.e they don't like to get them dirty.
Are you serious???
OK, you probably are, in which case I'd suggest that you get hold of a map that shows field boundaries (a 6" to the mile should suffice) then ask your local farmer who lives near to a dual carriageway to show you his fields and then you can suggest how he gets around them without having to drive on the roads...
Oh, and his farm was probably there before the dual carriageway as well...
Edited by b308 on 14/04/2009 at 12:22
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Ever heard of ' majority " rule. ? >>
I think you are confusing "majority" with "mob".
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And not forgetting the poor soul whose farmhouse is in the central reservation of the M62. Now which was there first. (although admittedly he does have his own underpass I think).
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Bear in mind these dual carriageways wwere planned and built on the basis that tractors could use them.
Now if you ban them who is going to provide the alternate route?
Next time they upgrade a road to dual carriageway who iss to bear the cost of maintaining the existing single carriageway road for use of those banned from the new road???
Who is going to bear the increased cost of food?
A similar thread was here a couple of weeks ago on motorised wheelchairs - abide by the highway code - be able to stop in the distance you can see - and stop being so selfish . . . .
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The anti farmer rants
Are either deliberately provocative, or pig-ignorant of driving technique, in my view.
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The A1 around Gateshead may have a ban, but its largely ignored. During rush hour I regularly tractors, cranes and similar slow moving vehicles.
Daft thing is, it doesn't affect the traffic as we're all doing 2 mph anyway - maybe the restriction would be better out of rush hour!
No use in any restriction if its not enforced though.
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