Citroen Xsara Picasso (2000 - 2010) - 01 2.0 Siezed front brake discs | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

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Sat 4 Apr 2009 21:20

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discs - Bluesky

Hi,

Tried to change the front brake discs on my Picasso today only to find them siezed on the hub. Tried tapping them with a plastic faced mallet, as suggested in Haynes manual, without any effect. The discs need changing ready for MOT later this week but I can't risk damaging them thus preventing me from driving to a garage to get them changed if I can't complete the job myself. Being strapped for cash I could really do with avoiding the garage route. I have changed discs on various vehicels before and never had this problem. Does anybody know of a solution?

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/04/2009 at 19:34

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Sat 4 Apr 2009 21:54

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - doctorchris

I assume that you've removed any disc retaining bolts.
Tapping with a plastic faced mallet is not enough. A few good blows with a metal hammer will shift the discs and damage to them is irrelevant as they are to be replaced.

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Sat 4 Apr 2009 22:03

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - Hamsafar

Try a lump hammer against a piece of wood, and if no good then without the wood. I know it's not nice and I worry about the bearings, but that's what a garage would do.

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Sat 4 Apr 2009 22:26

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - peter973

I assume that you've removed any disc retaining bolts.

Tapping with a plastic faced mallet is not enough. A few good blows with a

metal hammer will shift the discs

I agree with this.

I had a similiar problem with seized brake which wouldn't free even after hitting with bigrubber mallet, then hammer with block of woood, then tried towing car !!

Had to use a hammer, it's the SHOCK that breaks the rust which is seizing it up.

See this thread:
Seized brakes - Tricks to get car moving
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=72259&...e

Edited by peter973 on 04/04/2009 at 22:30

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Sun 5 Apr 2009 09:03

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - Simon

Yep, use a decent sized lump hammer and instead of tapping them, whack them as hard as you can. Rotate the disc round every hit so that you work the disc off evenly rather than hitting just in the one place.

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Sun 5 Apr 2009 12:17

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - 659FBE

Never hit a brake disk to free it from a wheel hub - the blows will Brinnel the wheel bearings.

Jack up the front of the car, remove disk fixings and run the engine with the car in first gear. Gradually apply the brakes and one disk will break free. Stop, put two wheel bolts in the free disk and repeat. The other disk will then break free.

Not for H&S dumbos, but this is a sure fire method of freeing disks on driven axles without causing damage. The number of wheel bearing failures which occur after the "trade" fit disks is significant.

659.

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Sun 5 Apr 2009 12:49

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - Number_Cruncher

>>the blows will Brinnel the wheel bearings.

>>The number of wheel bearing failures which occur after the "trade" fit disks is significant.

I fully agree.

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Sun 5 Apr 2009 14:27

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - gordonbennet

Thanks for that useful tip 659, for future knowledge how would you free the discs on a non driven axle please gentlemen?

Assuming that the person doing the job has removed all excess rust/gunge from the hub and applied some good releasing agent and still no joy without brute force.

Edited by gordonbennet on 05/04/2009 at 14:29

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Sun 5 Apr 2009 14:53

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - 659FBE

I must confess to mis-spelling the worthy Mr. Brinell's name in the previous post.

On a non driven axle it's possible to use wheel inertia to do the job - especially if you jam the brakes on hard. Raise the non driven wheel, remove any disk fixing screws and replace the wheel bolts. Leave the bolts slack and insert a spacer in the centre (a small piece of wood will do) such that the wheel can be reasonably tight and square(ish) on the centre of the hub but spaced from the disk.

Now spin the wheel by hand as fast as possible and get an assistant to jam on the brakes - with servo assist. Doing this a few times in each direction usually does the trick. Although the disk can only move within the clearance between its mounting hole and the bolt/stud, this is usually sufficient to break the rust bond - especially if you alternate the direction of rotation between attempts.

659.

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Sun 5 Apr 2009 17:38

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - gordonbennet

Leave the bolts slack and insert

a spacer in the centre

Thanks for that, i don't usually have any problems getting mine off, as i do tend to keep the hubs clean and copaslipped at regular intervals (he said conveniently forgetting the rusting rear of the disc), but should i eventually replace my car with the likely 3ish year old motor i would be lucky to find a car that the wheels haven't seized on let alone the discs/drums, so i shall remember that trick.

Out of interest does anyone else remove wheels and copaslip likely seize points on cars when they buy them, new or used?
I ask as i had performed this on my pick up by the time i'd had it a month, seemed quite normal to me but my mate who owns a lovely Capri 280 special (Brooklands i think) refuses to waxoyl the brake pipes even or do anything else preventative, i can't bear the thought of whats happening underneath that lovely car.

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Sun 5 Apr 2009 17:51

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - yorkiebar

Most trade people wont hammer a disk off if its stuck.

Normally just angle grind (v shape) cut into the disc and it will give up and decide to jump off !

Far safer than having driven wheels flailing about and spinning wheels by hand to produce enough movement to free the disc.

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Wed 8 Apr 2009 09:51

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - Bluesky

Thanks to everybody who has offered advice.

Brake discs and pads have now been changed.
I used the method recommended by 659FBE which worked a treat. This prcess doesn't require rapidly spinning wheels, or discs, although it could if too heavy on the gas! It works well with a diesel just above tickover using the torque to break the rust.

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Wed 8 Apr 2009 11:40

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - Bill Payer

Jack up the front of the car remove disk fixings and run the engine with

the car in first gear. Gradually apply the brakes and one disk will break free.

Stop put two wheel bolts in the free disk and repeat. The other disk will

then break free.

Not for H&S dumbos

I know you said the H&S bit but I'm a bit worried by the thought of people trying this while their cars are simply on the jack (probably the one that came with the car).

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Wed 8 Apr 2009 15:48

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - 659FBE

I'm afraid there's no pill for stupidity.

To have the process of human thought and endeavour restricted by legislation designed to cater for the mindsets of the lowest common denominator is criminal.

The state of our nation is perhaps in part, a result of such policies.

659.

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Wed 8 Apr 2009 19:58

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discc - madf

Anyone who works on a car suspended only by a car jack is an accident which has happened. when they were born : in my view..

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Mon 28 Nov 2016 20:53

01 2.0 Seized front brake disc - McBish

Many thanks for the suggestion, 659 - have just had to change discs on a Picasso where one disc was seized to the hub. Tried tapping with a claw hammer, then upgraded to a club hammer with a block of wood, turning the disc a fraction of a turn each time. No sign of any movement, so was contemplating upgrading to a sledgehammer! Had just got to thinking about getting the angle grinder out (last had to do this on a Mondeo 15 yrs ago), when I found this post.

Chocked car and had it ticking over in first - dabbed the brake and stalled the engine. Used a few more revs and left foot braked - disc came loose on second attempt with no drama and no risk of flying away. Much better than slicing the disc with an angle grinder!

Thanks again!

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Thu 9 Apr 2009 08:58

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discs - L'escargot

Would these work?

www.agriemach.com/product_info.php?cPath=cPath=50&...6

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Thu 9 Apr 2009 10:50

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discs - 659FBE

I doubt it.

If the disk makers had the sense to make 2 of the wheel bolt holes threaded, a couple of bolts could be screwed in to push the disk off the hub without damage.

But they don't.

659.

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Thu 9 Apr 2009 14:40

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discs - DP

I must have been very lucky. I've hammered off stuck brake discs on various cars and never suffered wheel bearing issues. I can't see how a blow with a light hammer perpendicular to the disc surface gets close to the stresses imposed on the bearing by hard cornering on bumpy roads, or bumping up a kerb.

I'm not being deliberately awkward or argumentative - I've always used a hammer, and always "got away with it".

Edited by DP on 09/04/2009 at 14:40

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Thu 9 Apr 2009 16:58

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discs - Number_Cruncher

Very easily DP.

Although the time averaged force from the road may be larger, any sudden changes, or peaks in load, are absorbed by the rubber tyre. When you hit directly onto the disc, there's nothing to attenuate the shock, and the bearings experience the full force, albeit for a very short duration.

A close analogy might that railway axlebox components are not protected from shock from the rail / wheel interface, and are subject to shocks of approximately 100g in magnitude. Owing to the isolation provided by the primary and secondary suspesions, and the seat springing, the passengers do not experience anything like 100g!

In short, the isolation provided by the tyre is very important!

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Thu 9 Apr 2009 17:22

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discs - 659FBE

As is the fact that when a hub bearing is subjected to road shocks, it is rotating.

659.

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Thu 9 Apr 2009 20:01

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discs - Lud

I am with DP on this one. It isn't likely that much more than a few taps will be needed to unstick a thin pad of rust. A thin blade inserted between disc and hub, if possible, will probably do the job with even less stress on the bearing, cushioned in any case by its admittedly thin layer of grease.

Considering its usually quite low price, a car wheel bearing is an amazingly durable and effective bit of kit. I am amazed by how long most of them last. Very bizarre designs they are sometimes too. Has anyone other than me done the front wheel bearings on a Renault 18?

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Thu 9 Apr 2009 20:36

01 2.0 Siezed front brake discs - Number_Cruncher

>>It isn't likely that much more than a few taps will be needed to unstick a thin pad of rust.

In those cases Lud, fair enough. I usually try a couple of gentle taps to see if the disc is loose.

However, some cars have a hub / disc design which locks tightly. Mk III Astras spring to mind in particular.

I have seen cars coming back into the workshop for front wheel bearings a few weeks after front discs been fitted - it was this which alerted me to the problem, and my need to find a better way (until then, I hadn't hesitated to bring out the big hammer). If I know I'm going to struggle, now, I'll cut the disc rather than hitting it.

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