If it's retail sales then the dealer has by law to give a three month warranty. >>
To Boss Hog:
You said [ at Wed 25 Mar 09 21:08 ] that "dealer has by law to give a three month warranty " .
Really? Which law is that? Can you please clarify.
In my opinion, that is just a myth.
To everyone:
The law that applies is given in HJ's FAQ no. 5
How that law is interpreted, and whose interpretation you believe, is a matter for the two tribes going to war. But before they go to war, IMO, the best bet usually is for the consumer to go to the dealer and politely reject the car [as per HJ's FAQ] and/or ask for the defects to be put right.
IMO: The FAQ and all its links are worth reading to the fullest extent before jumping to any conclusions. Some posts above [eg. advice to contact Consumer Direct and/or Trading Standards ] are on the right track. I repeat my caution: Anyone can join an open forum and spout all kinds of nonsense [myself included in that], and so be careful who you believe to be right.
To paraphrase Mapmaker, you have to check whether ""advice" they have offered is of any value whatsoever.
Edited by jbif on 26/03/2009 at 11:30
|
Actually I stand corrected there is No LAW to say the Trader must give 3 months, It is general practice however.
You are covered under the Sale of Goods Act and the vehicle does have to be fit for purpose.
My opinion (not law) is that a faulty or possible faulty air bag does not make the car fit for purpose.
Thank you JBIF for clarifying the warranty aspect.
Anyway good luck and I hope you can get a result.
|
Hi Horsepills, sorry to hear about your problems. I guess you've been getting a bit of flack mainly because of the way it came across in your OP - that you negotiated a price to buy the car with no comeback, then wanted some comeback! Obviously your later posts corrected this.
Whilst the law is somewhat vague on what rights you have in practice (depends on age, mileage, price, price in relation to similar cars etc etc) if you have paid the advertised price for the car from a dealer & the faults are clearly present at purchase I would suggest the courts would find in your favour.
It is likely the dealer removed the battery from the key fob because the CL was not working, otherwise for a few pence he could have demonstrated that it was working thus making an 8 year old car more saleable. As others have said, the handbrake & air-bag warning lights are clearly safety issues.
My advice (for what it's worth) - go back to the dealer & ask him nicely to rectify the faults (with a loan car thrown in, as this will help him to get the job done quickly). If he says NO, then demand he does saying you will go to trading standards otherwise. If he still says NO - go to trading standards with a copy of your invoice AND the dealer's advert.
Good luck
|
I've ignored this thread, until I realised it pulled BB out of hibernation - a hearty welcome back.
I've nothing to add, except it crossed my mind the OPs dealer might be a lorry driver. Now that should really set BB off.;>)
I'm looking forward to BB being Rattled.
|
|
|
I wouldn't bother about the airbags. Belts are all right and you aren't going to crash are you? Just get the light turned off. By 'sticker price' I imagine you don't mean top dollar by main dealer standards?
Similarly, why do you care about the remote locking? Nasty troublesome device it can be I understand. Still might be an easy repair though. But the non-locking rear door is a nuisance. Again it might be an easy repair, but it's a bit of a pain, and potentially insecure, to have central locking on three doors only. I would ask the seller to fix that.
I would say, too, it's unfortunate that you have taken offence. bell boy, who has been absent for too long and been much missed, is very informative but his discourse, while poetic, is imbued with the harsh wisdom of the market. It's possible he has misjudged you but he has sold lots of secondhand Fords. No need to take things to heart. Indeed you will suffer if you do, as there are several quite acerbic individuals who post here.
|
|
Obviously the seller should make the handbrake work too. That's an MoT fail and the car shouldn't have been sold in that state.
|
>>Personally I would be leaving the car with him and having the credit card company refund me.
Not a bad idea.
Some years ago I put a four figure deposit on a new car which was promised within six weeks. Three months later after much hassle I asked for my deposit to be returned, infact I asked several times before contacting my my credit card company. The full amount appeared on my next statement.
I hope bell boy's return in permanent!
Clk Sec
|
|
|
Thanks for all of your replies.
An update........I wasn't able to get to the dealer's forecourt today, so I called him and explained the faults. I said I was prepared to fix the handbrake myself, but asked if he could fix the airbag light & the central locking. He said he would take a look at the handbrake light and was 99.9% certain it is a "switch under the seat". I'm not so sure about this, but I'm willing to live with the fault if it's not an easy fix.
When I asked him if he would fix the central locking, his response was "er.....probably not". I then explained that as the car was advertised with "remote central locking" and I paid his full asking price for the car, I felt he should at least fix this one fault with the car. His response was "all I can do is find out how much it will cost to repair the fault and you can decide if you want to pay for it".
I do want to get the central locking fixed, as the door that doesn't work is the rear passenger side where I put my son into his child seat.
In other words, rather unsurprisingly, he doesn't want to know. I'm now in two minds as to whether to just take it on the chin and try to get it repaired myself, or whether to just insist he fixes the handbrake & airbag light on grounds of safety - and threaten trading standards if he refuses.
I'm really not sure where I'll get by insisting he fixes the faults.
Edited by horsepills on 26/03/2009 at 17:10
|
No one has asked, horsepills, whether the car is presentable in the more important ways: straight bodywork, wheels and tyres not too scarred, engine and main running gear in decent nick and adjustment, all that. How does it drive, stop and go round corners, does it smoke and and is its thirst about par for the course (not that frugal if it's an automatic)?
If it's all right in all those ways, and the price was a lowish dealer price, it is worth turning off the airbag light and getting the handbrake fixed. Apply the childproof lock on the rear door and keep it permanently locked while you get your courage up to tinker with it. Never mind the remote, it's just a toy.
There is an art to owning old cars as well as buying them. It consists of living with the imperfections you knew they would have in the first place, and fixing first the ones that are most difficult to live with.
'The best is the enemy of the good'. If it's basically a decent motor, keep it.
|
|
|
In other words, rather unsurprisingly, he doesn't want to know.
It's not nice being told that if you want that car to be put in proper shape you will have to pay more. I think you must decide whether it has enough other attractions to be worth fixing - perhaps somewhere else by a pleasanter trader - or if it's not, demanding a full refund. That decision should be made asap.
I have bought a few 8-10-year-old cars from lower-end traders, but only after spending a good half-hour looking under and behind everything I could get at. I then made an offer which I hoped was somewhere between derisory and miserly, intending to deal with any problems I had found myself. But never pay the screen price, because the trader has presumably chosen that to give him a worthwhile profit, with some spare to pay for any unduckable problems which appear. If he has done his homework he should know about those, but he may well prove most reluctant to do anything. If so, Trading Standards may be worth a visit.
|
You said you paid for it by Mastercard - if this was a Credit card then give the dealer another chance to fix it all - then put a dispute in with Mastercard. They'll freeze the funds - the dealer won't get a penny till you say it's all sorted.
Mastercard will be able to give you advice - you'll probably need to write a few letters so they have evidence ...
Plus take photographs / or video everything that's not working. You cannot have too much evidence ...
|
I appreciate the advice Stevieboy - but the faults I'm not happy about are an airbag light, handbrake not working & the central locking not working. On a £2k car, is it really worth all the hassle of writing many letters, photographs & video for these faults??
Don't get me wrong, I am unhappy with the dealer & think he should take some responsibility - I'm just not sure how far I'm willing to pursue all of this.
Edited by horsepills on 26/03/2009 at 20:04
|
£2k is a lot of money - if it were me I'd persue it. Only you can be sure what you want to do.
BTW have a look under the front seats - the connector for the seat-belt tensioners may have come undone due to a valet - and that can cause the airbag light.
|
I've just been lurking here and registered to reply to the comment about the Mastercard.
A credit card doesnt give you very many rights when buying second hand goods compared to new. Other than to give you a comeback if you dont actually receive them, or if they were grossly missold, they're unlikely to champion your cause for faults once received.
Unfortunately I suspect Mastercard wont be very interested in this issue, though it may scare the seller a bit if you mention it.
I bought a £2k used car and got a 3 month warranty though I didnt really expect the dealer to honour it. The regulations seem very ambiguous at best. I did expect everything to work when I bought it though.
|
|
|
I then explained that as the car was advertised with "remote central locking" and I paid his full asking price for the car I felt he should at least fix this one fault with the car.
You still haven't told us whether the advert said that the central locking was fully functioning, or just that the car had central locking fitted. I think this point is important.
Edited by L'escargot on 27/03/2009 at 06:31
|
it was an autotrader ad, which just listed "remote central locking" as one of the features. It did not say "working" or "broken" but surely it's sensible to assume that when people list these details they are suggesting that they work?!
Otherwise someone could theoretically list a car with *nothing* that works at all, and just list all of the extras it should have when fixed! We'd have a situation where buyers looking at autotrader ads wouldn't be able to determine cars with working features or broken ones.
I would expect faulty extras to be listed as such, or at least omitted from the Ad.
|
I must admit, whenever ive sold a car with faults on features such as central locking, ive not listed them if they dont work, especially things like aircon which can be expensive to fix.
Makes me so glad I dont buy from such people. Hope you get some sort of result with one or more of the features.
|
|
You still haven't told us whether the advert said that the central locking was fully functioning or just that the car had central locking fitted. I think this point is important.
I am sure this point is glad to hear somebody does... When did you last see a car advertised with "working power steering, working diesel engine, working electric windows, working 4 nearly new tyres"
Anyway, to cut through some of the rubbish on here (as OP seems quite capable of doing) note:
Traders cannot state ?no refunds?. www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problemswithgoo...m
If you bought your second hand car with a credit card or with credit provided by the dealer, the card company or credit provider is jointly liable with the dealer for any breach of contract, so you can also claim from them. If the credit company refuses your claim, you could then take the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
www.which.co.uk/advice/your-rights-buying-second-h...p
|
I've just been to see the dealer again. To summarise:
1) He won't fix the central locking
2) He won't fix the airbag light (which isn't a problem with a switch under seat)
3) He will adjust the handbrake so it works
He's said the airbag light is not an MOT fail, so he's not concerned about it.
ALSO - when I drove the car back to work just now, I discovered that the Electric window at the drivers side has now failed aswell! It's just stopped working.....absolutely nothing happens when I activate the switch.... It was working when I picked it up, and now it doesn't.
*SIGH*
|
I think the airbag is not an MOT item: www.motester.co.uk/mot-qanda2.html
However, it may be on because the airbags have been set off. If so, has the car had a crunch? Perhaps you should have the car and chassis checked out.
|
|
I mentioned further up the thread that airbags aren't part of the MOT test. However, it would interesting to know what your insurance company thought about a safety device that wasn't working on the car. The car has an NCAP rating which goes part way towards the insurance group that they put it in. It *could* well increase the premium you have to pay, or failure to declare it *could* well make your insurance void.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 27/03/2009 at 14:05
|
My 2p worth.
Why did the OP pay full sticker price and not get the warranty??
|
>>Why did the OP pay full sticker price
Why not?
>>and not get the warranty??
No warranty would cover him for pre-existing conditions. Most of these warranties are pretty much worthless anyway and certainly would not have covered the handbrake.
|
The handbrake issue is the only 1 any warranty "should" cover, its almost certainly a non roadworthy condition.
Airbag lights are "iffy" on roadworthiness, and central locking is definite no.
I would expect handbrake to be sorrted without issue, and a compromise might be the best solution on the other items.
Arguing soga is unlikely to get more than the handbrake fixed. Seller is likely to pint out that purchaser was well aware of faults, reflected in the selling price and therefore no repair is covered.
Handbrake, airbag lights and key condition should be easily apparant at any point of the sale/test.
Buyer has to take some responsibility too
|
Seller is likely to pint out that purchaser was well aware of faults>>
But according to the OP, he wasn't.
And if it is advertised as with CL then it should have it in good working order
|
|
It does not have working central locking let alone remote central locking. It needs fixing.
|
|
an autotrader ad automatically lists all the features of a car once you input its registration mark
Edited by bell boy on 27/03/2009 at 19:37
|
>>an autotrader ad automatically lists all the features of a car once you input its registration mark
Thanks for yet another pearl of wisdom bell boy ;) A form which pre-fills information for you is no excuse for listing features which are broken/faulty. You can remove anything that's not applicable/accurate by simply clicking the "edit web text" button.
|
The dealer has agreed to fix the (now faulty) electric window and the hand brake. He's taken a look at the airbag light but is unable to quickly identify the fault. I have agreed to get that looked at myself, and to fix the central locking issue at my expense too.
I had hoped that the dealer would have sorted all of the faults, but accept that he has a living to make too. I also accept that some of the responsibility is mine, because I should have noticed these issues when I test drove the car - like I said though, I am not experienced in this sort of thing so I made mistakes.
I certainly didn't "want my cake and eat it" or "wiggle weave and say no but yes but no" as some people (i.e. bell boy) have suggested.
|
Just a small point. I used to have a 1.6 tdci Focus with rear drum brakes.
The brakes & indeed the handbrake were allways poor. The handbrake needed a really hard pull to hold the car on anything of a slope. IMHO the brakes shoes lining material is far too hard and gives no "bite" atall.
If the handbrake has run out of travel its easy to adjust. Just gently prise up the back of the bit of plastic that the gaiter sits in. Once free you can pull this up & you will see a single adjusting nut. 12 a/f If I recall. You can give this a few turns to take up any undue slack.
|
Thanks mustangman. The hand brake on this one does not hold the car at all on a slope, no matter how hard I pull it up. It barely has any bite at all.
I'm sure it's an easy fix, but the dealer has now agreed to do this.
|
|
Re BB interesting and helpful insight into publications of this sort. Perhaps Auto-trader should state prominently that 'The list of features is for this model when supplied new, and is a theoretical construct for sales purposes only. If you wish to buy this car, you should check, or have a competent person check that each and every material feature is still functional, before entering a contract" I assume Auto-trader does not warn against deliberate or inadvertent misrepresentation, nor that the ad contains disclaimers of a similar nature. If that is the case, the buyer should be able to rely on the inferred claim that the features highlighted are actually still working:)
Edited by nortones2 on 27/03/2009 at 20:21
|
interestingly nortones i have given autotrader 3 feedbacks in the last 12 months and 2 of these have indeed been taken up and acted on for the good of all
the only one i want them to do now is go back to 1978 prices where an advert was 7/6p :-0
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
