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oh vectra belts fail alright
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The reason they need not be given the choice is: because the new Vectra does NOT have cam belts in the first place?? It has chains. Or am I wrong?
It might be a brand New Vectra, but it still uses the same engines off the shelf as all the other Vauxhall models. ie, Astra, Corsa, ect. Hence, Only some engines will have chains.
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Just out of interest,what is the advantage of a belt over a chain ?
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engine with belt can be made lighter
and therefore the car is more economical due to weight if nothing else
not much in it but a little
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Belts are generally quieter. To my cynical mind they also run dry which means that that part of the engine doesn't need an oil feed which makes it about 3p / engine cheaper to build. Oh, and dealers get to charge a lot of time for changing belts every couple of years!
Richard
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Quieter, cheaper, not affected by oil deterioration and more tolerant of misalignment of the pulleys are the key advantages. Possibly also quicker to fit on the production line.
Don't forget it's only well designed chain driven cams that are good. Overstressed chains are a nuisance. I believe you'd be changing some older Mercedes simplex chains almost as often as zetec belts, and the old A series cam chains would usually rattle after 20k miles. That's why my A series now sports a duplex chain.
Regards
John S
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Absolutely right on every point, John.
On the matter of cost, it's far easier and cheaper, to make toothed belt sprockets than chain sprockets. The former can be sintered (metal powder pressed under very high pressure in a die) whereas I should think that chain sprockets would always need to be machined from steel stock or forgings.
Toothed belts can be very strong and reliable. The one on the Perkins Prima (Montego, Maestro and Volvo Penta engines) is extremely highly loaded because the injection pump it drives provides a heavy resistance with high shock loadings, but it still gives ultra-reliable service. It is, however, much wider than most and the sprockets and idlers are up to the job.
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"It is, however, much wider than most and the sprockets and idlers are up to the job."
That is the crux of the matter. Auto engineers seem to build down to the minimum spec., rather than spending an extra coupleof pounds and supplying a component with a degree of built-in redundancy.
The chain on my motorbike is a case in point, needs changing too frequently but there is not enough clearance to fit a heavier duty chain and sprockets.
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It might be a brand New Vectra, but it still uses the same engines off the shelf as all the other Vauxhall models. ie, Astra, Corsa, ect. Hence, Only some engines will have chains.
DD: Perhaps you should tell HJ that he got it wrong
www.honestjohn.co.uk/index.php?url=/carbycar/index...m
where he says of the new Vectra;
"All new Vectra, code name J3200, on SAAB/GM Epsilon platform with more chunky styling and 12 year body warranty arrived in 2002. ...... Engines are chain-cam ECOTEC units developing 122bhp to 145bhp on petrol and 99bhp to 123bhp on diesel. ....."
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>> Only some engines will have chains.
DD: Perhaps you should tell HJ that he got it wrong where he says of the new Vectra; "All new Vectra,.. Engines are chain-cam ECOTEC units"
Cheers 0.One%
Looks like my reliable Vauxhall source has been feeding me duff info. Not quite so reliable as I thought. I shall have a word!!
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Cheers 0.One% Looks like my reliable Vauxhall source has been feeding me duff info. Not quite so reliable as I thought. I shall have a word!!
Don't rush - it may be HJ who has got it wrong! In the same review of the new Vectra, down the page, he has the following:
"Two petrol and two diesel engines available at launch, all four cylinder. 3.2 litre V6 will follow. 1,796cc belt-driven twin-cam petrol developing 90kW (122ps) at 6,000rpm with 170Nm (125 lb ft) torque at 3,800rpm. 0-60 is quoted at 10.9 seconds, top speed 127mph, Euro combined mpg 36.7 and CO2 emissions 184g/km (£140pa VED). This engine meets Euro 4 emissions limits. 2,198cc chain-driven twin-cam petrol developing 108kW (147ps) at 5,600rpm with 203Nm (150 lb ft) torque at 4,000 rpm. 0-60 of the manual is quoted at 9.9 seconds, top speed 135mph, Euro combined mpg 32.8 and CO2 emissions 206g/km (£155pa VED). "
It seems the 1.8 litre still has cam-belts.
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The V6 also still has a cambelt. Only the 2.2 which replaced the 2.0 from the old Vectra has changed from belt to chain. It does at least look as though Vauxhall are gradually moving away from cambelts. Actually it wasn't the cambelt that was the cause of the problem, it was the tensioner(s) which caused premature wear on the cambelt. The belt itself was quite capable of lasting 80,000 miles, or more, without breaking as the old 8v sohc Vauxhalls proved. Who says that progress is always forward?
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It does at least look as though Vauxhall are gradually moving away from cambelts.
Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't Vauxhall the 1st manufacturer to use cambelts?
The belt itself was quite capable of lasting 80,000 miles, or more, without breaking as the old 8v sohc Vauxhalls proved.
I've owned Vauxhalls for some 15 years now. In that time they have changed the recommended mileage for belt change more times than I have had hot dinners. Worst announcement they made was that "cambelts last the lifetime of the car" People took this statement too literally and didn't read the smallprint, which was "providing the belt was inspected at regular service intervals"
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Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't Vauxhall the 1st manufacturer to use cambelts?
Vauxhall probably were the first in this country. The very first manufacturer to use cambelts was GM in North America, on a Pontiac in the late 1960s if my memory is anywhere near correct. At first the cambelt ran in the open and there were many failures (perhaps in Canada?) due to snow getting packed between the belt and the sprockets and forcing the belt off! It wasn't long before they enclosed the cambelts and perhaps they should have done this from the start for safety reasons alone.
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Wasn't it the 1967(?) coke bottle shaped Victor 1600 with the first cambelt??
Under a tin cover but not enclosed as we see today??
David W
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...Alfa Romeo has revised the change point for both belts and tensioners from 72,000 miles to 36,000 miles. Audi has extended the change point on its 1.8 20vs to 115,000 miles, but lots of belts on these engines are failing at between 70,000 - 80,000 miles and when five valves per cylinder hit pistons the engines tend to be totally written off. Applies to Audis, SEATs, Skodas and VWs with the 1.8 20v. .... HJ
HJ: So what is the truth about the new Vectra engines - is your Car-by-Car statement quoted earlier correct?
Also, it seems perverse that Audi/VW should increase the change point when belts are failing earlier! Could it be that they are looking for more repair business rather than maintenace business?
I have asked 5 friends to ask 5 friends about any instances they have heard re. cambelt failures. As expected the three cases I mentioned at the top came up plus another two: one Audi and one Vectra. From anecdotal evidence, it seems VW/Audi and Vauxhall are the worst/most liable to these failures.
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Dizzy
I recall a very snowy winter many years ago when working on the Isle of Grain that one of my friends came to work in an Austin Ambassador. A slide in the car park left it buried deep in a snow drift with a stalled engine. It ran very roughly when restarted, so we ran it into the workshop. After some checking we found exactly what you mention - the cambelt had jumped a tooth or two, due, we believe, to snow getting into the belt cover during the excursion into the snow drift.
Those were the days when these were expected to run forever, and I believe he didn't bother to change the belt after this incident - he simply reset the timing and carried on using the car.
Regards
John S
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DD
I think the original advert was that they lasted the 'lifetime of the engine'. Thinking about it, they were spot on there.
Regards
John S
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Hi,just out of interest I had the belt,idlers & tensioner renewed on my Vectra 7k ago (4 months),but when I pulled the cover back today I noticed very tiny hairline cracks where the belt goes around the cam sprocket. It was done at a main VX dealer, so I am assuming the job was actually done, is this usual after such a short time. And being a Vectra you know why I'm so paranoid. Thanks in advance.
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