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It's only 7 years old - early 2002, late '51 plate, a whisker under 4k. All seems to be fine in terms of condition.
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Since 4k is a lot of money it might be worth getting an RAC/AA inspection, they also use laser detectors on the chasis to check for cracks where it may have been welded (cut and shut) especialy as this is a premium car the inspection will be well worth the money.
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it might be worth getting an RAC/AA inspection they also use laser detectors on the chasis to check for cracks where it may have been welded (cut and shut) especialy as this is a premium car the inspection will be well worth the money.
Surely it'd show up in the service history if such repairs had been conducted? And what's so wrong with such welding? It's common to do a bit of welding here and there on a classic car. How much would such an inspection cost?
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Well if it has been welded has enough of the corroded area been cut off?
Service history can be very selective, when we bought my dads car it had all the receipts but the bit about all the welding the chasis had was missing, the seller lied about the MOT saying it passed with flying colours, when I checked on the internet it had failed on rust. Its not been a problem in the 18 months we have had the car but if we had known at the time I doubt we would have bought it.
Is this a one owner car if so you have a bit less to worry but if it has a few owners anything bits of its history might be hidden and an HPI check won't always spot everything.
The AA/RAC inspections are very comprehensive and they will give you piece of mind, they do cost about £150 but if they find a major fault its money well spent. We once had an inspection done on a 14 month Nexia we nearly bought, they found severe accident damage to the chasis, yet it was not on any HPI report.
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Service history can be very selective when we bought my dads car it had allthe receipts but the bit about all the welding the chasis had was missing the seller lied about the MOT saying it passed with flying colours when I checked on the internet it had failed on rust. Its not been a problem in the 18 months we have had the car but if we had known at the time I doubt we would have bought it.
Worth bearing in mind, thanks.
Is this a one owner car if so you have a bit less to worry but if it has a few owners anything bits of its history might be hidden and an HPI check won't always spot everything.
Only one previous owner who, by what I've seen, took good care of the car.
The AA/RAC inspections are very comprehensive and they will give you piece of mind they do cost about £150 but if they find a major fault its money well spent.
Right, thanks
We once had an inspection done on a 14 month Nexia we nearly bought they found severe accident damage to the chasis yet it was not on any HPI report.
Serves you right for even considering a heap of junk like a Nexia! =P
In all seriousness, it is worth considering - I mean, if there's been accident damage to the chassis severe enough to cause problems, surely it would be visible to the naked eye with the car on a lift?
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At the time the Nexia was an Astra GTE with a less poweful engine, but for the £4500 it was a nearly new car with ABS, electric everything and a twin cam 1.5 litre engine. It was a lot of car the money but a couple of years later the design did become very dated being based on the Astra MK2. In the end we bought a two year old Punto SX and we were very glad we did in the end as it held its value far better than the Nexia would have done.
Have you got accesst to a ramp to inspect this car? If you have and you know what you're doing then an AA/RAC report may be over the top but I would not want to buy a £4k car on the private market blind.
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What made it an Astra GTE Rattle? I think you'll find it was a based on a bog standard Mk 2 Astra chassis, with Daewoo bits (lights, interior, engine) just bolted on.There was certainly nothing GTE-esque about the one my ex-girlfriend had!
The Espero was the same principle, just based on a Cavalier. Lot of toys for the money, but for a reasonm. The technology was 15yrs old........... and they were worth almost nothing a year down the line.
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Nick it used the rear suspension setup of the GTE, as did the Daeweoo Lanos, other than it was a standard MK2 Astra, even the dashboard was unchanged :(
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A quick DVLA check revealed these:
Date of Liability 01 06 2008
Vehicle Status Unlicensed
Vehicle Type Approval M1
This vehicle can be licensed at a DVLA Local Office without the V5C Registration Certificate
The information contained on this page is correct at the time of enquiry.
Please be aware that if the vehicle has recently been relicensed or a SORN declared, these details may not yet be updated on the vehicle record. If you think that the details on the vehicle record are incorrect please write to VCS, DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1BA, including the incorrect V5C Registration Certificate for amendment.
What do these suggest? Also, how do you check if it's passed MOT?
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It means the tax disc expired in June 2008. To check the MOT you need the number on the V5 and the cars registration plate if you go here you can then check details of all computerised MOTs the car has had, it is very useful.
www.motinfo.gov.uk/
This car has not been driven legally since June 2008, so why has the car sat there? If it has sat there all this time things may starting to sieze by now.
Something dosn't quite add up does it?
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It books at well under £2k
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It seems a tad over priced for a private sale, try and haggle a bit down. Seems like a nice very nice motor and if you like it.
This is what Parkers say for a bog standard NON-SE model
BMW 5-Series Touring (97-04)
No options selected
Original Price £25,390
Franchised Dealer £3,810
Independent Dealer £3,425
Private Good £3,315
Private Poor £2,805
Part Exchange £2,895
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gosh what a lot of worry warts
parking the price issue for now
trust yourself
go see the car
is the seller inviting you to his house?
are his wife and kids there for example.
Does it feel right? Is it a nice house, in a nice area.
Decent people sell decent cars.
If your spider sense tells you he's a rat walk away.
you can also phone the BMW garage to back up the service history in this case.
As for price - normal process, check autotrader for similar, knock a bit off as its green, fix a figure you are happy with and go for it.
and if all else fails buy a mondeo
Edited by nick1975 on 06/03/2009 at 13:21
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gosh what a lot of worry warts .. >>
Nick1975 - I agree wholeheartedly with your post.
I have a gut feeling that the car that Rover P6B is asking about is most probably a very sound buy, subject to negotiating a mutually acceptable price.
I have seen examples of E39 that are 10 years or more old, with mega 150k+ miles, yet look and feel and drive like they have just left the factory. The only blemishes are usually some paint chips on the bonnet and windscreen and maybe a few "supermarket parking syndrome" dents in the sides.
R-P6B: Go and check it out.
Trouble with the internet is that you cannot vet the respondents, and some are bound to get you a little rattled.
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As for mileage, it's not a big worry for me - an original 525 tds in Munich has been a taxi with one owner all its life and has topped 450k miles and still is great. The driver wants to see if he can beat the current record, a Stuttgart taxi in the form of a Merc W123, which has topped three million.
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He seems a thoroughly decent guy. Can't comment on the house/family bit yet. Knock a bit off as it's green? That green was the best of a damn good bunch of colours on that car! The car looks absolutely gorgeous in it, esp. with wood trim and cream leather/carpets. And a Mondeo? How very dare you! I'm a RWD man through and through, and, as Rover aren't making cars like the wonderful P6 any more, I am forced to buy BMW. There is no other maker which makes cars that can measure up to my old P6B - indeed, the P6B was slightly better even than my BMW E46, and not just because of the extra power and torque. It handled a little better, was quieter, smoother, and had more feeling of class and exclusivity to it. The only area in which I significantly prefer the E46 is the gearbox - the ZF five-speed shifts more quickly and smoothly than the Rover in-house 4-speed that the 3500S got. Ironically, they originally planned to get a 5-speed ZF when they were planning the S in 1970, but the bean-counters killed that. I still want another... and my two sons - 17 and 10 - are equally determined to have their own.
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Spoken to him on the phone - he really is excellent, no worries whatever. It seems he's an amateur trader at home as an evening/weekend job, while selling new BMWs at his local main dealer as his day job. The car came to his dealership as a trade-in, got checked over then sold off to an independent garage to sell (too embarrassed at having a nice-looking Bimmer on the forecourt, methinks... I shall not mourn the resignation of Chris Bangle), but the independent wouldn't sell it as their warranties people wouldn't cover any vehicle over 80k miles. This chap decided, as he had a bit of capital, to try selling it himself, but he had to put his plans on hold due to a house move and a baby arriving... the BMW got a bit of use in the house move, to no adverse effect. Since then, with settling in and coping with the baby, he put it away in his garage and left it for a few months, but ensured the engine got run up regularly. The car is as good as BMW Used Approved, so I won't ask for laser checks or anything like that. Unfortunately, he's got another would-be buyer, but that deal involves a Mk1 Land Rover Freelander as a part-exchange - they're near worthless now, especially given their suspect reliability - whereas I'm not seeking to do anything except pay him for the car and take it home. Here's praying I do get it - if I do, this is going to be in the family for a VERY long time. I believe already they're turning up at classic car shows... if that's true, I'll see if I can take it to them and see that, like many classics, it ends up becoming a family heirloom! I've heard some say that in fifteen years' time they'll be worth a lot more and will be considered bona fide classics, but are now in the no-man's-land of Yesterday's Executive Express - much like the Merc W123 was fifteen years ago. I got my Rover 3500S very cheaply that way, as Y.E.E. - 11 years old, moderate mileage, a wee bit scruffy, perfectly good runner. This BMW isn't scruffy - it looks absolutely gorgeous. Frankly, 106,000 miles is nothing to worry me. My 1999 E46 318i Touring has done much the same and is now feeling nicely run in, nothing more. I see no reason not to proceed with the purchase and, frankly, the sum quoted for it seems not much money for a hell of a lot of car, and a number of my friends have commented likewise.
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£4k is way too much for a 520iSE. If it was a sport, then it is 'sort' of justified.
If the car is 'slate green', then for some reason or the other the British car buying public absolutely abhors it, so re-selling will be difficult. I am speaking from experience - I once had a 530ISE, on a 51 plate.
There is no 'real' difference in consumption between the 520, 525, and 530 (all petrol) in every day use. Performance is a another matter. So, if I were you, i will be trying to buy the biggest engine possible.
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Resale values aren't going to be a problem - if my sons have their way, it will still be in the family long after I'm gone. Also, it's not Slate Green, it's Oxford Green. My concern regarding the 'big' engines is insurance, specifically, and does a 530i not really consume more fuel than a 520i? Bear in mind that most of my return journeys are under 13 miles, with a weekly 20-mile - long runs are relatively rare. Surely a 530i is going to be more expensive to run under such circumstances? Frankly, if I were after that size of engine, I'd probably be after a diesel... though some people say diesels are of no advantage in terms of fuel burn on a series of short runs.
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By 20 miles, I actually meant about 30...
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A rapidly driven 530i, WILL be more economical compared to a 520i. This is not hearsay, personal experience. My 330i Sport returned about 28mpg over 5k miles. My 530iSE returned again an identical 28mpg over 10k miles. My Z3 2.2 (much lighter car - the same engine as the 520/320), returned 27mpg over 5k miles.
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Oxford Green is not a desired colour by the market. If you like it great, but you should reduce your price for this. If you dont you are losing out.
My advice early in this post was just common sense and to give a bit of a steer. Given what you have now disclosed about the vendor, personally, i would run a country mile.
BMW salesman selling his own cars at weekends, sold to some other dealer, then bought back, then moves house and a baby arrives.... Come on!!
this is exactly what you need to avoid imho
smells like the brown stuff from a well fed bull to me.
car like this you want to be buying from the owner, that can tell you its a decent car and has a genuine reason to flog it.
sorry
Edited by nick1975 on 07/03/2009 at 23:15
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The reason it was passed off by two garages was down to stupid bureaucracy, not any problem with the car, which was given the full BMW Used Approved treatment. The vendor seems absolutely on the level - sadly, the car seems to have gone to the other buyer, though if he fails to collect it tomorrow...
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"sadly the car seems to have gone to the other buyer"
FWIW, I think you've had a lucky escape. This stikes me as a tactic to disarm your common sense when you're offered "one last chance to buy" tomorrow.
A trader - any trader, under any circumstances, should identify himself as a trader in the advert. If he doesn't, ask yourself why?
Dont' be swayed by the fact that you like the car - BMWs aren't that scare! In the meantime, pay close attention to HJ's FAQ on buying secondhand from the trade...
[Formatting edited 9/03/09 09:36]
Edited by Gromit {P} on 09/03/2009 at 09:35
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>>"The reason it was passed off by two garages was down to stupid bureaucracy, not any problem with the car"
That sounds like car salesman speak to me.
The first garage got rid of its trade-in; fair enough.
The second garage, however, bought the car second hand, and "then" "realised" it had done over 80k...???!!!???...!
And if he used it in his house move, shouldn't he have taxed it???
There's always another one.
>>classic car
It's seven years old... it's a luxo barge banger. Not a classic. Please! .
>>bargain
At twice book (apparently). You're paying forecourt prices, not back-street trader price
>>effectively BMW approved...
... except without the warranty that comes with it being BMW approved, but with the "benefit" of paying full price for it.
Now, I cannot stop you from going and spending 4k spare cash on a BMW; and it sounds nice enough. But don't kid yourself on any of the above points.
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... Now, I cannot stop you from going and spending ... >>
Now and again, a friend will ask me to go along with them to look at a car they are thinking of buying. You go along and point out to them that the car they have fallen in love with is overpriced or has obvious defects that should rule it out as a first choice, but you find that once the "emotional" decision to buy has been made, no amount of logic will wash with them. This applies equally to mean and women.
They have a big smile on their face and the phrases usually trotted out " I love this car. It is just what I was looking for. I can't let this opportunity go."
It makes you wonder why they took you along in the first place, although they claim it was for an honest 2nd opinion, you find that all your "negative" points are ignored or excused.
Edited by jbif on 09/03/2009 at 10:09
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The reason it was passed off by two garages was down to stupid bureaucracy not any problem with the car which was given the full BMW Used Approved treatment. The vendor seems absolutely on the level - sadly the car seems to have gone to the other buyer though if he fails to collect it tomorrow...
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All this is just heresay from the "Amateur Trader" - who presumably is not going to be paying any VAT or Tax on the profit, nor is he going to offer you any warranty.
This is a car that has been knocking around the trade since June 2008 and is now being offered for sale by a trader.
I'm sure he's a very nice chap but concentrate on the car not his stories.
I suspect you will get a call saying the other buyer (if there is such a person) is messing the trader around/can't get the cash/problem with the trade in etc - and Mr. Amateur Trader is so fed up with him that if you come up with the full asking price today he will do you a favour and let you have the car.
Setting aside the price - which given it's really a trade sale as it's certainly not retail (no warranty, no aftersales) and definately not private (I doubt this guy is on the V5, and you are not buying from the previous owner with opportunity to question him etc) so should be priced a little over Glass's which is £2520 in excellent condition or £2250 average (add £150 if it's an SE).
Look for an independent BMW garage in the area where the car is to be viewed - use the yellow pages, BMW owner sites etc, - call one and ask if they will check over the car for you . It will probably cost an hour's labour - say £50-£60 - it will be worth it, and get an independent HPI check.
And don't pay retail money for a car which is not offered on retail terms. forget this talk of BMW Approved - BMW Approved cars are fully checked and all faults fixed including body dings, chips etc, 30 day exchange, Full checkable SH and warranted mileage, Service carried out if one is due within 3 months, and full (extendable) 12 months warranty including MOT insurance. Mr. A. Trader is giving you none of this - so don't pay for it.
Jacks
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Well, t'other buyer was supposed to be collecting the car on Monday, having put down a deposit on Saturday: the seller promised to contact me if it went wrong, but I've heard nothing more. The car had been given all the BMW Approved checks and had had a few very minor things fixed (I think one sill got re-lacquered as it had been grit-damaged), but it wasn't offered with a warranty. Anyway, it's not coming to me now, so this is all academic.
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