Ripley annoyed me this weekend.
A bloke drove up to Scotland (500 miles) in 12 hours.
Ripley suggested this should have been done in two 250 mile stints.
Utter tosh. I've driven 600 miles to a party and I presume delivery drivers drive 8 hours a day every day of their lives.
I *do* accept that driving when tired is a mistake - I know at least one prerson who crashed after a 22 hour stretch of work.
Just don't see why 5-6 hundred miles or 8-10 hours would be that big an issue.
Discuss.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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About three hours is the maximum I can stand. Even just getting out and stretching my legs is enough.
I don't think its strictly tiredness - as in needing sleep - so much as loss of concentration and aching bits.
M.
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Will be a few easy nicks for the rozzers if driving a bus is inherantly Dangerous Driving.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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12 hours to do 500 miles? I once drove a Metro 1.0 City from Newmarket to Fort William and I managed a better average than that (475 miles in 8.5 hours including petrol stops). I wore ear defenders for the whole journey - got some funny looks at Scotch Corner when I stopped for petrol and forgot to take them off.
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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500 miles in 12 hours is only just over 40 mph. So I assume it included a break as you can maintain 60+ on the A1 unless traffic or weather conditions are bad.
So I don't see what the discussion is about!
I've done Essex/Edinburgh in a day easily (with a couple of stops).
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Rolling back the years to when I was based in Minden, W.Germany, it was nothing to thrash back to Zeebrugge to catch the midnight ferry AFTER a fortnight on excercise. About 320 miles in 5 hours. I wouldn't want to do it now..
Before you ask, it was done with a brim full tank + jerry can
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100 miles south of Strasbourg to Calais in 5 hours. About 500 miles - stopping once for petrol.
However I generally like to stop every 2-3 hours to have a stretch and feed the baby!
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My own best is Warrington - Llandudno in an hour. No traffic on the M56 or A55 at 7am and was destined to climb Snowdon.
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I'm with Mark on this one. After about three hours I notice I start to make small mistakes and errors of judgement. A walk round the car, a cold drink, and a leg stretch seems to be enough to fix it for another three. It does depend on traffic levels, the type of roads, and I guess if I drove all day every day my tolerance would go up. But there can't be many people who are anywhere near as sharp as when they started (or as sharp as they should be) after eight hours of constant driving.
Maybe the reason Americans drive gas-guzzling cars is to force them to stop every 250 miles. It's unfortunate in this respect that my old diesel soldiers on for 500+.
Chris
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wigan 2:30 on a wednesday afternoon
Zell am Ziller, Austrian Tyrol, Thursday teatime
but I was younger then......
when you've got tired of driving ...
www.mikes-walks.co.uk
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Kent 0730 GMT
Salzburg 1900 local time (ie 1800 GMT)
That included a stop at Calais to swap hire cars, and a couple of stops for food. My supposed 'co-driver' was as useful as the proverbial ashtray on a motorbike, cos he slept all the way !
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I have been to that precise place! Very nice, although we didnt drive - my boring parents wanted to fly. On the driving long distances point I think a break every 2 1/2 - 3 hrs is sensible, although this does allow for diet coke and fags whilst driving.
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Toad
Quite agree Ripley is talking nonsense here, as someone has already shown by the maths.
I did 520 miles from Banbury up to Banff not many years ago in an old Volvo 164TE. It is mostly dual carriageway or motorway but I did it in 8 hours, averaging 65mph, and felt very relaxed about it with two petrol stops. The old 6-cylinder Volvo returned about 28-30 mpg and was great for cruising on that sort of journey.
In a modern car on modern roads, especially on the Continent, it should be no problem to complete 600-700 in a day as they do in the USA.
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Just don't see why 5-6 hundred miles or 8-10 hours would be that big an issue. Discuss. -- P********** Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
You will see if one day you end up doing 8 years for manslaughter just because you were too macho to take a 30 minute break. If you are not convinced, just ask the bereaved families or the Police involved with the Selby train crash.
,0.1%
PS: <0.1% of my posts come with an implied smiley.
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Agree that Ripley is talking out of his hat here. The guy clearly says he split the journey into five 100 mile sectors and took 12 hours. Thats the the way to do it!!
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TOTH. I think the Selby guy was driving with 3 hours sleep in the preceeding 24. It wasn't time and distance, it was fitness (or not) to drive at the moment he set out IMHO. I did 600 odd miles, Cortina to Nijmegen a few years ago, in a decent motor, and with 2 or 3 breaks it was fine. In one go apart from fuel stops wouldn't be too clever I do agree.
If you think motoring is expensive don't try divorce!
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I reckon we can all quote these long, relaxing and usually enjoyable journeys (I did Besancon to Midlands -600 miles in 12 hours including ferry, meal and fag stops at Easter in my old BX diesel and never went over 80) but I have arrived home absolutely knackered after driving from Dover to Midlands, via endless jams, solid traffic and countless cones on M20, M25 and M1 despite stopping a couple of times to refresh. The key is not to drive too long and only you, not distance or time, can make that decision. 200 miles from Dover doesn't sound much but it's far more testing than 600 on quiet French motorways or, if you are lucky and travel at the right time, 500 miles on British roads. Drive safely!
PhilW
P.S Why, between Thurrock and Maidstone services are there about 6 or 7 signs saying "Tiredness kills - take a break" but 60 or 70 miles with nowhere to take a break?
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In reply to the delivery drivers point, I do 8 hours on a Sat and 7 on a Wed, 5 on a Fri and Sun. I clock up only about 100 miles max in a night but I'm in and out of the shop and often dooing short journeys. Sorry but I can keep the concentration. I hope there are other drivers aswell as me who are irritated about being treated like idiots.
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Gentlemen, Gentlemen, GENTlemen
I cannot believe what I am I reading in this post.
My training and lifelong experience has shown that after only one hours driving concentration starts to become impaired and deteriorates thereafter. Consequently frequent rest stops are essential.
To some extent youth can make some compensation against tiredness but not to the driving distances mentioned.
Sorry but what is bragged about is not only foolhardy but dangerous on today's congested roads.
To those who insist otherwise I can only say that there is an accident and hedgeback waiting for you.For Gods sake do not take me or any of my family with you.
DVD
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0.One% - What's driving without sleep got to go with driving 5-6 hundred miles?
DVD - I respect all your views but I think you're being a little harsh on Lorry Drivers/Taxi Drivers/Traffic Policemen[1]/Sales Reps/Chauffeurs/Dispatch Motorcycles.
[1] They work an 8 hour shift nest pas?
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Toad
Of the group you mention only the long distance lorry driver will drive for four half hours before statutory rest and often takes other breaks.Bed in ther back means he can really rest.
The rest, of which I claim experience in two groups, is stop start during the eight.
Days in the jam sandwich my 8 hour shift was approx. 100 - 150 miles with many stops for cups of tea etc, less when I was watching frogs with black bin liners looking at speed camera......Now because of costs many Forces impose a shift mileage restriction to try and balance the books.
DVD
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The rest, of which I claim experience in two groups, is stop start during the eight.
If you were driving 600 miles that would be stop-start too. You'd need at least one break for petrol during which you could have a longish break. Stretch legs eat etc. More likely you'd stop twice. On my Scotland-SE run of 600 miles I stopped twice and arrived fresh as a daisy ready for a night of partying. To have split that into two legs would have been a waste of a day. (And left us somewhere near Newcastle with a whole day to kill).
Now I think about it my regular biking trips to Wales take about 9 hours for the round trip.
cups of tea
On duty? The shame of it!
less when I was watching frogs with black bin liners
...and I would've got away with it if it wern't for you pesky kids.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Toad has yet again set off another hare - this time by deliberately misquoting Ripley. Here are the actual quotes from the D. Tel:
The reader wrote in:
" Your comments on driving long distances and fatigue (July 13) reminded me of a recent journey from Cardiff to Aberdeen. The distance is rather long to do in one day, but I decided to tackle the journey in five sections of about 100 miles each, resting at each stop. We completed the 500 miles in 12 hours, including diversions and rest stops. I am 75 and a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists ..... "
Note that the man is 75 years old and did 500 miles with 4 rest stops in between.
In reply, bearing in mind this man's age, Ripley advised him not to do 500 miles in one day. The full reply said:
" It might well have been pleasurable, but was it safe at all times? On the plus side, you planned your journey and didn't allow yourself to overstep the mark when it came to taking frequent stops. Nevertheless, 500 miles in one day is a substantial haul and not to be recommended.
Many of us are guilty of driving excessive distances without taking enough breaks. Indeed, in my youth, I remember driving to southern Spain non-stop, a journey of more than 1,800 miles. The only saving grace was that I shared the driving with another person - more important, one whom I knew I could trust while I slept in the passenger seat. But that was a trip I would never want to do again.
Anyone facing a long drive to or from a holiday destination, in Britain or abroad, must resist the temptation to cover as much distance as possible in one day. It is far safer and less stressful to spread the journey over two or more days, with frequent stops along the way and pre-planned overnight halts; before you set off, calculate a conservative average speed (including stops) and an easily achievable daily distance that means you will not have to drive after dusk.
It is up to the driver to recognise when he or she is feeling drowsy and to break the journey when necessary, whatever the pressure to reach a certain place by a certain time. Even if you are behind schedule, it is much better to book into a motel early than try to push on to your intended destination.
This is the only way to maintain an adequate level of attention, especially on monotonous motorways in high summer temperatures. If you are really tired when behind the wheel your visual scanning process slows down, you are late to see things and even later to respond to them. With such impaired levels of attention and concentration, it's no wonder many drivers drift into semi-consciousness and eventually fall asleep at the wheel - with disastrous consequences. The only solution is a proper break when tiredness strikes. "
So before you all start ripping into Ripley, check out whether you can trust Toad to tell the truth.
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Tosh: Tell the Truth?
You paraphrase as:
"Ripley advised him not to do 500 miles in one day"
I paraphased as:
"Ripley suggested this should have been done in two 250 mile stints."
What the hell is the difference? Or do you interpret Ripley as suggesting 3 days, or a week to do 500 miles? I think anyone reading that will get the same message you and I got. Riply thinks 500 miles in a day is too much and you should spend 2 days on it. I think that's wrong.
If you do feel it should have been 3 days (and I confess Riply does suggest later that three might be appropriate) they are you seriously suggesting that a weeks holiday in scotland should have 3 either side set apart from three 200 mile journeys?
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Tosh: Tell the Truth?
..... What the hell is the difference >>
.......Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
The difference is that you forgot to mention that the reply was directed at a 75 year old man.
Tosh
PS: All my posts come with a real smelley.
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The difference is that you forgot to mention that the reply was directed at a 75 year old man.
It was generalised for all drivers though.
As for 75. Very fair point, nobody over 35 should be on the public highway anyway. And nobody over 40 should leave home. Poor things get lost and confused. Anyway, how would nurse empty the catheter bag...
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Toad, for someone who is pedantic, read carefully what Ripley actually said:
"... It is far safer and less stressful to spread the journey over two or more days, with frequent stops along the way and pre-planned overnight halts; before you set off, calculate a conservative average speed (including stops) and an easily achievable daily distance that means you will not have to drive after dusk."
Do you not agree with his statement that "it is far safer and less stressful "?
<0.1%
PS: All my posts come a really useful message.
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"Do you not agree with his statement that "it is far safer and less stressful "?"
Nope, I'd be full of stress worrying about the extra two (there and back) days of holiday I was wasting instead of driving for (say) ten hours out of twelve, at 50mph with a half hour break every two hours. Add to that the stress of paying for two overnight stops for a family of four and I'd certainly be more stressed.
Also, since you're so worried lest we misquote His Holiness, I note he suggests stretching it out over two or more days. How many? Three, four, five?
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Vin: As you seem to be so easily stressed out, you probalbly suffer from a phobia of going out. Perhaps the safest thing for you and the world is for you to stay indoors - in Rampton in solitary confinement.
<0.1%
PS: All my posts come a really useful message.
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Toad, for someone who is pedantic
Hey don't accuse me of that. A load of daily mail readers will daub paint on Toad Hall.
Do you not agree with his statement that "it is far safer and less stressful "?
It's also less stressful not to drive but not very practical. Mr. Ripleys article was critical of people who drive long distances on the same day. That's my point. I htink it's perfectly normal to do scotland in a day and you wouldn't have to think too long to come up with professions that *require* long drives.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Toad speaking with forked tongue? Never! How could you attack the site's arbiter of accuracy, taste and decency (peep peep)?
DVD. No I wouldn't have worried about the traffic car shifts either, guessing the kind of use you confirm. In fact there is very little difference between the journey profile of Dave18's pizza delivery and the traffic cars! Periods of inactivity followed by short bursts of high speed and a total of around 100 miles. Even bet both get free pizzas ;-)
David W
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Toad speaking with forked tongue? Never! How could you attack the site's arbiter of accuracy, taste and decency (peep peep)?
;-) The irony of being affronted that someone who claims to be a fictional english speaking reptile is less that 100 per cent accurate is sweet.
However on this occasion I was 100 per cent accurate. Mr. Ripley suggested breaking the journey into two days - and Tosh agrees that's what was said.
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Clear message on most of these posts - it's not how far you drive, but how you drive it. The key factors are:
- the roads (quiet french motorways are less stressful than driving at 90-100mph nose-to-tail in the slow lane of a german autobahn)
- the car (my Saab 9-5 is the least stressful car I have ever driven for long distances, although the key thing seems to be plenty of power and low noise levels)
- age (I still find long distance continental driving enjoyable, but I don't look forward to it as much as I used to)
- rest time (my wife and I share the driving on long distances, 2 hours each, with longer breaks than just a changeover stop every four hours)
We frequently drive to Austria. We always take at least one overnight stop, simply because it takes away the stress - the pressure of having to drive 400 miles by a particular time is obviously less than having to drive 700 miles. We have found many fantastic roads and overnight stops by taking this approach. Try it - make the journey part of the holiday!
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PS. There is just one problem to changing your forum ID for one post. It changes every past post to that ID as well, makes tracking the owner a doddle ;-)
David W
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PS. There is just one problem to changing your forum ID for one post. It changes every past post to that ID as well, makes tracking the owner a doddle ;-) David W
I don't know what you are talking about.
<0.1%
PS: All my posts come a really useful message.
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>> PS. There is just one problem to changing your forum IDfor one post. It changes every past post to that ID as well, makes tracking the owner a doddle ;-) David W
>>I don't know what you are talking about.
And that of course is the plus point of the "glitch".
;-)
David W
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I drive down to Madrid a few times a year now and can manage to do it in about 18 hours comfortably with plenty of stops for food and coffee. The distance is about 1230 miles and last year i managed to get from Madrid to Hertford in 13hours including all stops and the tunnel.
My point is that if you plan your route well, take plenty of breaks and stop as soon as you feel tired you can cover a lot of miles very quickly. Luckily the french police don't seem to care about my speeding as long as I am driving safely.
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Sorry that should be excluding the tunnel
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100-ish cruising speed? Thought the French police were fine up to that speed because they\'re not as N*** as ours. Would be handy to find out though as I want to drive into France some time.
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N***
*Very* harsh Dave18...
...on the National Socialists. ;-) ;-)
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Harsh? Maybe but our erm oh so kind traffic police are so un-kind I believe.
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French police are no less efficient at doing their job than our own. Whether there are more or less of them deployed per mile I don't know. I've seen more radar and hi tech traps over there than here, although I don't believe cameras are in use/very widespread yet. They also calculate your average speed by measuring elapsed time between motorway toll booths.
And finally I don't believe there is anything wrong with our own TraffPol. They are simply the guardians of the laws which our elected government has passed on our behalf. It's a job with some gruesome aspects (see MidLife Crisis's post elsewhere) and I think that if I were attending collisions for a living then I would be quite keen to do my bit to reduce the number of those collisions.
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Drove all the way to Harwich and back yesterday (7 Sept) when I went to collect the imported BMW.
Round trip was 600 miles. Stoped on the M6 going down, at Harwich while I inspected the car and had a break and on the M6 again going back.
No problem at all but did I sleep last night!
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Many people have said about the timing between the toll booths but I have never had any problems with this.
I have managed average times of at least 100mph between booths and so far have never had any problems with this. Am I just lucky or is this assumption that they time you a load of pony.
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I reckon you've been very lucky. Mike Rutherford on his Talksport show was complaining about the French police picking on the Brits.
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I have found that the French police do give Brits grief but only if you drive like a t### i.e. tailgating, speeding through built up areas etc.
All reasons to pull you over in any country if you ask me.
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Regarding average speeds between tolls leading to being nicked, my uncle lives in France and drives a Boxster. Apparently its not the average speed that gets you but the speed coming up to the Toll Booth. Traffic Police figure that its far easier to stop you when your stopped at the booth rather than at 100mph+. If you slow down for the final mile coming up to the booth you should be fine.
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