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Is that 1.3 engine the same as the old pushrod Fiesta engine? Does it have to have its valve clearances adjusted? If so it's an easy job.
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Does it stop if you put he clutch down?-if so,idler gear rattle.
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Indeed it is the pushrod engine that is the only 1.3 engine which was fitted to this car, the Zetecs were 1.25, 1.4 and 1.6
It could well be the tappets but if that should adjusted or not has often been a big debate on here. OP does it sound like a diesel or of a sound? Or is like a faint rattle which goes and fades?
PS My username comes from the fact the Fiesta I had when I first signed up had a rattle, and I joined to get on advice to what the problem was.
Edited by Rattle on 18/02/2009 at 16:45
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yes, I would say it is a kind of diesel rattle! I will do a few experiments to see when it is at its worst - thanks for all the replies
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it has only done 57k. It was totally out of oil when I first got it but have not had a look recently.
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:( That might have caused some damage, my mate let his get that low and as a result it now needs a few 100ml of oil every week but it still runs fine and passes the emissions in that state.
The ratteling noise does sound it could be the tappets which is normal for this engine and if yopu're treating the car as a banger is probably not worth getting it fixed, if you tighten them up too much it causes all sorts of problems.
It willl probably worth completly doing an oil change on it, these cars tend to take a lot of abuse and often have done 30,000 miles without a single oil change.
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The ratteling noise does sound it could be the tappets which is normal for this engine and if yopu're treating the car as a banger is probably not worth getting it fixed if you tighten them up too much it causes all sorts of problems.
That is bad advice. The job is easy and straightforward and if you do it properly there's no chance at all of 'tightening them up too much'. If they have never been adjusted and are rattling noticeably, correcting the clearances will make the car run better and more quietly.
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>>That is bad advice.
It's very reasonable advice. Most DIYers over tighten valves in a misguided attempt to make everything quiet. If you presented one of these cars to me with a running fault, and I couldn't hear the tappets, it would be among the first things I would check.
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Do you mean that 'most DIYers' don't use feeler gauges to get the clearances correct NC? If you are right I am sure they deserve everything they get.
However it is so simple to do this job properly that it seems foolish not to do it in a car that sounds tappetty. The improvement in refinement may well be a bit disappointing in the case of a pushrod Fiesta though, I agree.
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I actually started a debat on this a few months back and the general agreement was unless it was very bad you could probably do more harm unless you do it yourself. My dads sounds silent at the top end but I am sure its not running right as the exhaust tip is always black, I have a feeling the tappets are over tightened.
If this Fiesta was mine I would be more concerned about the fact is seamingly had no oil in it.
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I actually started a debat on this a few months back
I remember it Rattle. I seem to remember NC didn't want amateurs messing about with the rockers then either.
If this Fiesta was mine I would be more concerned about the fact is seamingly had no oil in it.
I can only agree with you there. What is it that makes abused old wrecks seek out your company, Rattle?
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I don't know what it is that DIYers do to get their tappets wrong - I expect they just nip them up a bit too tight. I've seen it often enough to be on my guard for it.
Tappets should obviously be set correctly, but, there's a cliff edge. If they're a bit loose, the engine will run well enough, but, if they're a bit tight, you lose compression, you get more misfires, and the HC emissions go through the roof. If left, the valve seats burn out.
In fact, if the tappets are left loose, most OHV engines will actually produce a bit more power. A series engines, although the clearance is specified at around 12 - 15 thou, produce more power at 50 thou!!
Once they have a few miles on them, A series, Kent, Enduras, etc should rattle a bit from the tappets - one that doesn't rattle is set up wrong.
As I've mentioned on here before, I've even fixed a gearbox rattle problem on a BMW by un-doing the DIY inclined owners misguided tappet adjustments!
It's a bit like DIYers and fasteners on cars - DIYers tend to overtighten and ruin small fasteners. An experienced mechanic can tighten a bolt, and by feel know when to stop, and produce a well tightened joint. I've seen DIYers come in with snapped bolts in their pressed steel rocker covers! - the area around the holes in the panel so badly deformed that it'll never seal again. Again, in the mis-guided view that tighter = better.
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I remember my first experience of professional mechanics - aged 14yrs. The Victor 101 had just returned from the garage and we had taken it back.
My father said "young oilrag here says you didn`t adjust the tappets"
Garage owner (mechanic at his side) "How do you know that" (in outraged tone)
Me - Look at the dirt filling the slots on the screws that hold the cover on"
Garage owner (backing off) " Well - they didn`t need doing - they sounded fine"
I was bought my first socket set at that point and pointed towards the car - following a few chats from the old man.
To date saved around £100,000 + on all cars serviced and repaired (as an amateur) including rectifying damage done by the professionals..
;-)
Edited by oilrag on 19/02/2009 at 07:57
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Ah yes, professionals. I left my first car, a Light 15 Citroen, at a big garage near Denham when its clutch cable broke. When I went to get the car there were unremovable greasy fingermarks on the oatmeal velour cheapo 1948 interior trim, and the cable had to be adjusted by me in the dark before the car could be driven. The new cable broke a week later because it had been damaged by some chimpanzee during fitting. I got another new one (£6.15s I seem to remember) and installed it myself in the street, without bending it sideways and damaging it.
Professional mechanics aren't all like that of course. But unless you know the carphounds you can't trust them.
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I've never had a problem with the work mechanics have done but I have had problems with diagnoses in the past. There is often too much guesswork at the customers expense.
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>>Professional mechanics
I'm not sure mechanicing is a profession - it's a job isn't it?
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NC I would not be so sure. I have a degree and I could tell you the exact science of how posting this message works. It is a skill as well and one I am not really making much use of at the moment.
To be a proper mechanic it takes years of experience. I have tried to fix cars myself and yes I have suceeded many times and made a mess of many. It would take me 5 minutes to change a power supply in a PC, it would take me half an hour to change an air filter in the car.
I think society in general has a very negative attitude towards mechanics the way they are often portrayed by the soaps as being thick. I know this is not true and in fact many automative engineering courses contain at least 50% maths now.
There is a difference between a mechanic and a fitter though, maybe fitter is not a career but a job.
I think with mechanics you're are either born with the gift or you're not. I am a very technical person but not a very practical person so I tend to be a lot better at the diagnoses than the actual fix.
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There is a difference between a mechanic and a fitter though maybe fitter is not a career but a job.
Now now rattle thats not too fair to say us Railway fitters who repair loco's / dmu's take plenty of pride in our work with many been here over 25+ yrs., so a career it definatley is!
It's the man doing the job not wether he's a mechanic,fitter,service engineer ,technician etc.
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I was refering to the oinks in certain chains who seemingly cannot say a single word in English and have less customer service skills than my cats (at least my cats great customers!).
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NC I would not be so sure.
It's OK Rattle - I'm quite sure.
>>I know this is not true and in fact many automative engineering courses contain at least 50% maths now.
Don't confuse a decent Honours Automotice Engineering course with a mechanics course - although now every jumped up college some kind of Automotive Engineering course the distinction is becoming blurred. A mechanics course teaches mechanics how cars work at a *very* basic level, it does not make engineering designers out of them, and there's absolutely no need for any more than the most basic of mathematics when working on a motor car.
Going back 15 years or so ago, there were only Brunel University, Hatfield poly, Loughborough University, and Teeside poly offering degree courses in Automotive Engineering (of those, only Brunel and Loughborough were worth trying to get into, and placed reasonable demands, asking applicants for good A levels - when A levels meant a little more than they do today). Now, everywhere offers the subject in a mickey mouse watered down form, and most of the courses are worth nowt.
I'm not saying a mechanic is without skill. Far from it. But, I wouldn't call it a profession.
Another way to phrase my question is to ask what does professional mean?
If it now means everyone who has a job and demonstrates some skill, then, it means nothing, because then, an accomplished burger flipper could describe themselves as a professional. If that is what the word professional has begun to mean, it has encroached over the meaning of the word job, and another word needs to be found for those jobs which have a significant entry hurdle, and an element of personal (and possibly corporate) responsibility on a significant scale.
In the same way that the word engineer has been "stolen" by those technicians who come out to mend photo-copiers and gas boilers.
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I'm not sure mechanicing is a profession - it's a job isn't it?
Carp carp carp NC, ponce ponce even... :o}
My car man's garage says it is a 'Motor engineer'. Knowing him and his work I would say the term is morally entirely justified, but I've never asked him what engineering qualifications he has. It would be bad manners and anyway redundant from my own point of view. I know where I am with him because he talks sense and does far better work than anyone has a right to expect, and than most people would appreciate.
For what it's worth though, I would say he did have some engineering degree or similar level of qualification.
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Most importantly though, he has the mechanical green fingers to which Rattle refers. It's a question of liking the automobile and having insight into its infuriating little ways. That and lots of practice which (as we all know) involves making mistakes and learning from them.
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>>My car man's garage says it is a 'Motor engineer
So did my father's garage Lud.
>>Carp carp carp NC...
Not really Lud - surely you of all people appreciate that if we use words, we should them with some degree of care and accuracy - or else, they lose all meaning and can be used by those who are powerful in society for their own ends (c.f. Lord Rumba of Rio, Alastair Campbell et al. I'm surprised they haven't started a "Ministry of Truth")
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