"Through rigorous testing and research we're able to produce oils to the exacting requirements of classic engines"
(Millers)
www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/item.htm?id=5741
Sorry to be the cynic. But I thought classic engines oil specs were not very `exacting` at all by modern standards and Duckhams had that covered with Q20w/50 around fifty years ago?
Anyway, do you remember the first time you cracked open a can of Q20w-50? the colour and smell -I seems to remember it was developed with the Mini`s engine oil sharing gearbox in mind?
Happy days ;-) I used nothing else for years and then moved on to Duckhams 15w40 for later cars. I wonder why the brand name seems to have more or less faded away?
|
....I thought classic engines oil specs were not very `exacting` at all by modern standards....
A dotty customer of ours topped up the oil on her Morris 1300 with water - to the brim.
She mistook the oil filler for the radiator cap.
Can't remember how far she drove it in that condition, but it would have been a few miles to get it to the garage.
We drained about five gallons of oil/water out of it, put in the right quantity of oil and off it went, apparently none the worse.
|
|
|
Incidentally, what`s the relevance of major oil companies stating *meets* or *exceeds* ACEA specs on their engine oil.
While some of the smaller ones use terms such as *performance profile* regarding ACEA.
I`m not being critical here - just exploring the meaning of terms. Could you use that latter term if your oil had not actually `met` ACEA specs? and why would you not actually use the term *meets* like all the big boys.
If GB reads this - it`s where some of my cynical views on certain fuel additives stems from ;-)
|
I like this:
"Millers Oils Classic Mini Oil 20w50 lubricates the combined engine and gearbox systems of these unique cars"
I'd damn well hope that all oils would do that on any of the FWD BMC/BL cars of that era or they'd be in trouble!
If its specifically designed for the Mini does that also make it suitable for the 1100/1800/Maxi/Allegro as well as they all shared the same engine/'box layout, or is just the A series ones?!
TBH I think that its a cynical marketing ploy... I was in Halfords not so long ago and they had "Classic 20/50 Engine Oil" for "classic" cars... I'd have thought that these "specials" are no different to the decent modern mineral oil selling for a tenner less alongside them on the shelf!
|
> Millers Oils Classic Mini Oil 20w50 ..
But 20/50 is pretty thick stuff compared to today's oil, which is probably intended for engines with finer tolerances, without having to lubricate helical gears as well. Treacle might be quite good for that.
|
|
Gearbox oil is as "runny" as engine oil! It might be called 75W/90, but that's measured on a different scale to engine oil. That grade is the same viscosity as an ordinary engine oil.
|
|
Most cars of that age specified 20/50 or 10/40... all of which are currently available without having to pay a premium... given that most oils today (even the cheaper ones) will be of a better quality than they were in the 60s and 70s due to improvements in oil technology, why should we consider paying a premium when the ordinary stuff is better than the stuff we used then?
|
Why is Millers being singled out here, they say they have used certain additives in the oil in question to help protect gearbox bearings etc, is their honesty being called into question.
We are told here constantly how much better modern oil is than those from the past, is it possible Millers may have improved on the standard stuff with technology?
Millers are highly respected in the motorsport as well as mainstream market, do people really think they would risk their reputation for a handful of sales to proper mini owners?
|
Why is Millers being singled out here
They aren't... I mentioned that Halfords do the same... what we are saying is why we should pay loaded prices for these oils when, in theory at least, they should actually be less complicated than modern synthetic oils...
|
Special 'classic' oil for classic car engines is the same sort of scam as polish that costs 75 quid a bottle and such like. A way of parting the gullible (ie: thinks he's bought an 'investment') classic car owner from his money.
Why buy special oil for something like an old Ferrari or Aston Martin when their engines - apparently - need rebuilding every 20 thousand miles anyway?
Cynical? Moi?
|
I'm not quite so sure. I've used Morris Oils' "Elite 50" in my old Harleys for many years; it's low-detergent and therein lies the key.
I was taught many years ago that it was unwise to put modern oils containing detergent additives in UN-REBUILT old engines, the theory being that the detergents would wash the accumulated gunk out of the nooks and crannies and deposit same in an oil-way, causing bearing failure.
I am neither an engineer nor a scientist, but it's something I've stuck to over the years, and never yet had a big-end or main bearing failure. I'd be interested if any more technically-mided posters than I can shed some light on the accuracy of my information, though.
|
|
|
|
Hi, just a little defence stance for millers,they have a well respected presence in the competition market and really produce a premium product many of which i have used for years.
The special mini oil was developed primarily to cope with the demands that high power, torque and transmisson snatching that competition minis have to cope with,excellent product from a very sucessful British firm.
I have no connectio with millers apart from being a consumer of many of there products,best wishes gusgeds.
|
|
Err... its been marketed for all ordinary BL/BMC front drive products, not the high performance ones, they will use sommat else I suspect... and you wonder why many of us a cynical....
|
Ok its a free country................ you use and believe what you want, and i will use and believe what i want, no problem.
Yes its been marketed for all BL/BLMC fwd products, i was just stating how it was developed and can assure you it is being used by many competition mini fans who do believe it is worth paying for a premium product,regards gusgeds.
|
|
So the "performance" versions don't use a special racing oil?
|
Gus, I was in a rush when I did that last post... I am puzzled why an ordinary FWD BMC/BL car suddenly needs a "special" oil developed as you say for performance cars... The point I am making is that my Maxi specifies a 20/50 or 10/40 oil to a certain spec... its accepted that modern oils are better than the ones produced in the 70s when it was new so whatever modern oil I put in it will be "better" than original - so why, on a normal car, not high performance one, should I need to pay extra over and above the normal oil price?
For a performance engine, yes I see the point, but in an ordinary classic that has been running for the past 30 to 40 years on the ordinary stuff I honestly can't see any gain other than lightenning my wallet.
I'm not having a go, its just that for the normal run of the mill car I can't see the point... you have obviously been closely involved and hold a different view, fine, no probs, but until I see hard evidence to prove that my ordinary car will be much better off it will always seem like a marketing ploy!
Edited by b308 on 14/02/2009 at 20:59
|
As you say modern oils are "better"than oils produced in the seventies and any modern oil will out perform a seventies product but it is all about the application which in this case is the mini or fwd bmc/bl vehicles.
The specific difference that the millers product has over a modern oil not blended for this application is GL4 gear oil rating which gives the gears a lot of extreme pressure protection not found in"ordinary oils" along with high quality base oils and a quality additive package which could not be imagined in the seventies.
I am sure a mini could last for x thousand miles on any modern sl/sj/sm ACEA A3 oil but i am also sure it would last longer in extremis with a product engineered for the application.
Today its all about the application, one oil does not fit all any more with many manufacturers coming out with there own oil specifications.
Forget about brand or synthetic mineral or blend its all about the correct specifation for the application.
Sorry to be so long winded about this, regards gusgeds.
|
|
As I said before, supply me with the hard evidence that my old Maxi will be better off with it over a standard modern 20/50 then I'll believe it.
|
As i said before, its a free country, feel free to use whatever you want.
I was trying to get across why Millers developed this product and why it costs more than brand x, happy motoring gusgeds.
|
Doh! all this "faff" over oil! - bring back S.A.E.30 - "moggys loved it, and it never did anything any harm back in the "good ole days"!! It would be interesting to see a comparson carried out using '30 and a modern oil in a basic car (panda/punto) run to destruction, just to see how much longer the car using todays oil would run and therefore how much better modern oil really is. (if that makes sense!)
|
|
Thanks Gus, you've answered my question in your last reply... I will be sticking with an "ordinary" oil as I don't like being taken for a ride! Happy motoring, m8!
|
It didn't do any harm because it either leaked out or was relaced with more frequent oil and filter changes, not to mention regular engine rebuilds which simply wouldn't be acceptable today.
Still waiting for Number Cruncher to come along and give us the complete lowdown on this subject! ;-)
|
This new classic Mini oil sound as if it is the same as tractor universal oil, which is for engines, gearboxes and hydraulics.
Castrol Agri MP is 15W-40, CE/SF, GL4. It seems just the job for an old Mini and will be cheaper. A 5 litre can should cost £10 from an agricultural merchant.
I don't use universal oils in my tractors, I use a 15W-40 C!-4/CH/SJ E7 oil for the engines and a special transmission oil for the rest.
My oldest tractor is a 1961 model and uses the latest oils with no problem. I have just used it to feed the sheep and she runs as well as when new, which is more than can be said for me!
My first car was a Mini (BRE478A) and I used Castrol GTX.
|
..I don't use universal oils in my tractors, I use a 15W-40 C!-4/CH/SJ E7 oil for the engines and a special transmission oil for the rest. ...
Quizman,
You must be one of the few farmers who bother to look at the oil at all. :)
Tractors of the vintage you speak of seem to chug on for years with little or no maintenance.
|
No, not at all. Tractors have got so sophisticated now that farmers have to be more careful with maintenance.
Feeling sad now, The Rams1-United4.
Edited by quizman on 15/02/2009 at 18:54
|
>>Still waiting for Number Cruncher
Sorry, it's a complete technical blind spot for me. I'm sure there must be some hideous compromises you need to make to allow the oil to work well for the engine, AND provide GL4 protection and EP type behaviour for the gearbox, but I don't know the detail.
I've never used any special oils in Minis - but then, fairly frequent major maintenance was almost expected as normal.
|
I think its a case of being developed specifically for a use, where that use isnt actaully that demanding.
I dont recall any instance of an oil being a problem in a fwd bl car. Lots of problems with the cars and the engines but never 1 I have attributed to the oil used.
Often, lack of oil cos it spat it out so much or burned it, but not cos the stuff wasnt up to it.
In fact they would (and did) run on any oil. The new fangled multigrade (20/50) didnt actually make much difference other than stop the need for a twice yearly oil change!
|
> Lack of oil cos it spat it out so much or burned it ..
I had a series of Maxis from 1972-83. The last one was the best, and at my request the local BL dealer fixed an oil leak - so effectively that after a year or two the block started to rust ...
|
|
|
