My sister drove her Xsara (aka my old car) into 3 feet of flood water today. Engine running at tick over, sucked water in and now non-runner. RAC towed it out and it tries to crank a bit but won't turn over.
Clearly water in one or more cylinders. I suspect this is almost certainly a destroyed engine, but has anyone ever heard of an engine recovering from hydrauliccing after the water's been drained out?
It's being dumped back here. Plan is to take out the glow plugs and try to turn the engine over and then change the oil. *Fingers crossed*
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if it recovers it didnt take water into the engine.
No hoper! Sorry
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Hi,
This happened to me with my Xsara HDi during bad weather last August. Flood was only 10 or 12 inches deep but water was still sucked up through the air intake, which is stupidly low in my car.
The revs were at around 1400rpm going through the flood and the engine slowed and died. I even tried restarting before I figured out what had happened. The engine would not crank at all. The air filter was soaking when I checked it.
The car was recovered and taken to a garage. The inlet and outlet manifold were full of water as were teh cylinders................but it turned over when dried and cranked!!
I'm still driving it with no loss of power or usage of engine oil. It starts in teh same manner as it did before ingesting the water
Despite this let-off, it is still the worst car I have ever had in terms of reliability...........
MPH
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I may be naive but why would a manufacturer place the air intake so low?
If it doesn't suck in water it is surely more likely to ingest dust and dirt from the road and reduce the life of the air filter.
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An ex did exactly the same with a 306td, air intake at valance level, just plain stupid.
Having said that, the flood was so deep i didn't even risk the landcruiser through it.
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I was daft enough to drive my '93 L reg diesel Clio through a ford which happened to be much longer and deeper than I care to admit to. As a result I got wet feet and the bill was over £2000. It hydraulic'd the engine and soaked the interior. It stalled in the water and was towed out and when I got it home took out the glowplugs and span the engine over and the water that shot out went as high as the house (wouldn't have been a good idea to peer in to the engine at that point). Insurance paid out and was returned to the road and did carry on for years after. The air intake was down by the wheel arch and so it was never going to survive my stupidity. At the time I knew not about the low intake and assumed that as it was a diesel it could almost swim - I was wrong! I'm now frightened of puddles deeper than an inch.
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We seem to be developing a theme here of French cars with very low air intakes.
Is there any reason for this?
Avoiding the smoke from Gitanes at a higher level on the streets of Paris?
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I may be naive but why would a manufacturer place the air intake so low?
You are not naive but some cars do have very low air in takes. The OP did say his sister drove into 3 feet of water though. Air intake would need to be fairly high for that.
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And it's not only French cars with low air intakes.
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I declare I'm a huge fan of the Fiat Panda. Even the non-4x4 versions have the air intake at the highest point under the bonnet. These cars are built in Poland. Maybe the rougher conditions in Eastern Europe encourage a bit of sense in this direction.
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I recall driving my Xsara thtrough 12 inch plus of water to "rescue" a fiesta driver and kids once - no problem at all. And that one did over 100k with no problems at all except cabin fan dying. My current Megan copes well with deep-ish water too - but the minibus full of kids didn't fair too well with the ford!
I've heard that dieselsfull of water and drained/dried can recover - good luck OP.
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I was told because the air is colder and hence denser the lower it is.
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Brilliant, AE, an obvious and undeniable explanation for this design phenomenon and in keeping with French scientific thought!
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....... why would a manufacturer place the air intake so low?
My car's intake is as high as it could possibly be ~ 26" from the ground ~ which is just clear of the underside of the bonnet. I wouldn't attempt to drive through even 1 foot of water.
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Yaris air intake is as high under the bonnet as it can be.
HJ's guide on Xantia warned of this problem. Seems it common to all Citroens designed at that time..
Never had a problem with 106 as air intake is up high behind radiator.
I tend to look for these things when buying a car!
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"I was told because the air is colder and hence denser the lower it is."
The adiabatic lapse rate is about 2 deg C per 1000', so siting the air intake a foot lower is going to make no difference to temp/density!
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Ah, not just me that finds the 'denser air low down' theory difficult to ingest then.
Personally I think it has more to do with current styling / pedestrian collision requirements, which mean a more or less constant curve from front bumper to windscreen, hence nowhere high up to contain the fairly bulky air filter assembly.
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"The adiabatic lapse rate is about 2 deg C per 1000', so siting the air intake a foot lower is going to make no difference to temp/density! "
Indeed, but most of the air under the bonnet has been forced through the radiator and is considerably warmer than ambient, hence location does make a difference (although we are talking ratio of absolute temperature, so not as big as you might think). The BX TD used to have an intake sited above the top of the radiator, which was ideal for breathing cool air and avoiding water sucking in. I am lot more circumspect about wading in my Xantia HDi!
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Could be OK, it's unlikely that the thing will have come to a dead stop, as the bores won't fill completely, and there'll be a "cushion". Once had a motorbike engine of which one bore filled completely with petrol, due to a carb. problem. A big kick resulted in *hurt* and no movement. That engine worked again, after the plug was removed & the thing kicked over a few times. Shot a lot of petrol out all over the place during that, though.
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ONB trashes the air density theory... but what about the underbonnet air pressure map at cruising speed? Siting the intake in a high pressure area would have small but probably measurable effects on performance or (in the case of a Citroen) economy. That's the sort of thing Citroen engineers consider, or so I like to think.
They used to call it 'ram effect' in the days of carburettors I seem to remember.
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I always assumed it was because of a colder layer of air close to the road surface.
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As said above the difference in temperature will be none existent. But maybe its because the air higher up in an engine bay will be warm and therefore the intake is lower down. Could also be due to engine bay design - there is not much space in engine bays these days. Some cars don't even have access to the back of headlights from the engine bay.
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If artists, instead of engineers, design cars these things bound to happen :)
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Much as it grates to admit, Ego is correct. It is to do with lower air being cooler (and thus denser).
ONB, adiabatic lapse applies to free (uninfluenced) air -but the air a foot off the road is cooled by the ground (the ground is generally much colder than free air) and is usually a degree or so cooler than the air two foot off the ground.
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And I would think air in the engine bay is warmer still. So an inlet higher up might use warmer air. They do it for a reason don't they - they are not that dim as designers.
I wonder how David Horn is getting on with the Xsara?
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This may sound stupid but..............
when folk get a fresh car, why don't they check where the air intake is? If it's in a "seemingly" daft place or very low, why not move (or have it moved) somewhere sensible.
I've never had a car that was under manufacturers warranty, so thats one aspect i've never had to consider before i've moved mine in the past, but it shouldn't invalidate anything if a main dealer carried out the work would it? It's one of the first things i do (did) as we have loads of deep puddles around here!
Billy
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I wonder how David Horn is getting on with the Xsara?
Don't know yet. RAC bloke decided not to chance the snow and has dumped it at a garage 20 miles away. Not sure whether it's genuinely stuffed (garage haven't called yet) but even if it is, we've decided to go ahead and just stick a second hand engine in.
Dad knows a mobile mechanic who brings his own crane etc.
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