Which is worse - snow or slush?
In this weather, I tend to use more motorway and avoid country roads (they are usually more covered with snow as few vehicle go over them).
Office car parks and driveway to main road (in quiet residential areas) are two difficult areas to maneuver. They are always covered with thick snow.
|
Which is worse - snow or slush?
Neither. Fresh snow is easy to drive on* (relatively) and offers quite good (relative) levels of grip, to the extent its sometimes better to ignore the ruts and go for the fresh stuff. Slush is easy too - its just water.
Today was a piece of cake. Tonight when it freezes will be a whole new story - thats when it gets really nasty. Its the ice under the snow or the hard packed frozen snow that becomes the complete horror. Then I drive like I assume the brakes dont work at all. Most likely they wont.
My real tip tho? you cant see whats under the snow, you cant see the kerb, the ditch, the side of the road.....it all looks like white road.
|
"My real tip tho? you cant see whats under the snow..."
This really becomes a problem after snow ploughs have built a small mountain of snow at the side of the road. Where I live, everybody parks on the pavements all over the city so you see people driving over these snow mountains. One place I worked, a girl hit one hard enough to blow her air bag - there was a concrete waste basket hidden inside.
The only change I make to my routine is carrying a scraper/brush gadget so I can clear snow from the car properly without my fingers freezing.
|
|
|
Tonight when it freezes will be a whole new story - thats when it gets really nasty.
Hear him, hear him. Someone posted a video once of cars in an American street all losing it on some old ice with a covering of snow and gently punting each other about like slow-motion billiard balls. You can damage three or four of your neighbours' cars just trying to drive off gently.
|
Hear him hear him. Someone posted a video once of cars in an American street all losing it on some old ice with a covering of snow and gently punting each other about like slow-motion billiard balls.
'ere tis: uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qofe64lIvNg
|
|
|
|
|
|
Do not drive a rwd car without winter tyres on the rear.
Unless it's a Morris Minor :-)
My van is great in the snow.
|
a Morris Minor :-)
My van is great in the snow.
Not just a Morris Minor. I had a great time on packed snow and slush main roads to Plymouth and back in 1961 or 2 in a hired late-fifties Vauxhall Victor. It scampered and fishtailed up hills when more august vehicles were slewing around with wheelspin and got us there and back, being stopped only by black ice fortunately in a place where a pub had a room. Low power and an honest chassis can make a rwd car preferable to a fwd one under those conditions.
As an aid to delicate control inputs, use higher gears than usual when accelerating as well as a very light foot. Wheelspin especially when cornering catches a lot of unaware drivers out. And HJ's advice not to rush intemperately up to intersections in one's usual red-blooded way is very important. We've all been there, shudder.
|
|
|
If you're pulling away on a road that is covered in snow or ice, pull off in 2nd gear gently releasing the cluth to minimise wheelspin, then as soon as you go along change into 3rd as there's still potential to wheelspin, especially in a residential area like where I live. I was actually creeping along in 3rd on tickover on my road otherwise a touch of the throttle would still spin the wheels.
I own a MK3 FWD Golf Gti BTW!
|
>>If you're pulling away on a road that is covered in snow or ice, pull off in 2nd gear gently.
Yes - the normal advice.
IF you have an automatic with a "snow" button ( that IIRC, does a similar function) then use it.
Any other advice to drivers with auto gearboxes ?
or CVTs or DSGs or any other sort of box?
Having relatively recently changed to an auto I feel strangly out of control compared with a manual box.
The Mondeo is out of action at present so its back to a manual box.
My daughter has voiced concerns that she does not know how to drive in these conditions. Well done to her for speaking up before I raised the topic.
I plan a few basic lessons tomorrow.
|
Carefully and slowly is the answer.
There is a high risk of having a collision in snow or ice, even if you're careful and experienced, because other drivers might not be.
Avoid the brakes if you can, stay in a lower gear than normal.
If you HAVE to brake, do it in short stabs unless your car has ABS, which will do the same thing.
If you star to skid sideways, steer into the skid unless that means driving into something! I mean it's probably better to catch a glancing blow with the slewing rear end than have ahead-on collision.
If you're driving a 4x4, don't be lulled into a false sense of security in snow. They can keep going where lesser vehicles get stuck but they are no better at stopping on a slippery road than an ordinary car - you're just as likely to skid.
|
|
|
Most of the above is excellent advice. My contributions:
Turn off traction control.
If you have a diesel, use the idle governor to allow the car to progress through sticky bits in 1st or 2nd gear. (Just keep your foot clear of the accelerator pedal and let the governor maintain the idle speed). This is remarkably effective.
Keep well clear of egocentric BMW drivers. Wide wheels, rear drive, low weight, high torque and the driver's usual attitude to making progress at a higher rate than anyone else makes these things a menace. Several in the ditch last night on the A25.
659.
|
Local BMW drivers have fun at our height 300metres-600 metres,
They just get stuck..
Mercedes are just as much fun.
The worst car I ever had on snow was a 1956 Rover 75 (P4), The weight was all over the front wheels and being RWD it would not go up hard packed snow on hills. I gave up trying to go up the Aberdeen ringroad as I was always being stopped by traffic lights on the hills... and could not restart.
I ended with a 10 mile detour through the city centre..
Motto: try to time your driving so you never stop going up ice or snow covered hills. If stopped you may not restart...
|
This morning set out very slowly on our untreated street... touched brakes very lightly at less than 10mph before first speed hump and traction control came on. Took it gently over the rest and okay. Get to the next road before the cleared one (with a lollypop person there)... touched brakes and it happened again.
Rest of journey to Swindon from the NW was fine.
|
Any other advice to drivers with auto gearboxes ?
or CVTs or DSGs or any other sort of box
The DSG A3 hasn't been out today, but if it had been:
My drive is straight onto a steep cul de sac terminating in a T junction with a 40 limit road. Car is reversed up the drive so I can drive straight off. For downhill I put the car in manual and leave it in 1st. Get it rolling then as soon as it starts going downhill leave all the pedals alone. It's a leap of faith as the car does run away for a short while, but then the clutch kicks in and engine braking takes over. The car won't do more than 10mph in first on tickover.
General driving - traction off, manual mode, move away in 1st then change straight away into 2nd. Once rolling keep in a lower gear to use engine braking rather than the brakes, change down as speed drops. If it starts spinning you can add power then change up the box.
If you do get stuck for any length of time don't leave all the power hungry items on and sit there - you'll drain the battery as the alternator can't supply enough juice.
I have noticed how many idiots in 4x4s there were today - "look at me I've got a Shogun/RR/Discovery with 4WD, I can go anywhere" attitude. All looking good until one of them tried to stop at the junction, he it the brakes, skidded, the road camber took over and he went through 90 degrees onto the kerb and almost went through the front of a house.
|
I learned most of my car control skills (such as they are) in my mate's old 2.0 Ascona 2-door on a B&Q car park in the snow ... drifting, controlling slides, handbrake turns ... those were the days, when car parks were just big empty tarmac spaces :-D
|
>those were the days when car parks were just big emptytarmac spaces :-D
Hear hear.... there used to be one here in High Wycombe (now a shopping centre) I trained myself there, firstly in an old Viva, then a mk 1 Fiesta - I still prefer RWD!
Drove my brother to work today, showed him a few tips, and couldnt resist a handbrake turn in the empty carpark at work!
|
Despite coming from Vancouver where no one knows how to drive in the snow either, one piece of advice I learned from my old man was to drive up hills with the driven wheels at the rear. In these days of front wheel drive, I find reversing my 406 up the slope to my house works far better than trying to drive forwards up.
Canuck
|
After the adventure down the street in the last snow we had (Backroom passim) I took the bus today which did turn up in the end.
Saw a good few cars pirouetting around today, glad we left ours at home.
Advice? Avoid driving if you can, if you need to drive take it very easy and like AE says above, drive as if your brakes aren't working as they probably won't.
|
one piece of advice I learned from my old man was to drive up hills with the driven wheels at the rear. In these days of front wheel drive I find reversing my 406 up the slope to my house works far better than trying to drive forwards up. Canuck
It'd be better with a FWD car , extra traction being gained as a result of the weight of the engine being over the drive axle. That's why artics get stuck in snow and loaded rigids don't, because of the weight distribution.
The best advice I can offer is to plan ahead so that you can do everything smoothly and gradually; sudden manoeuvres and braking should be avoided wherever possible. I have been out round mid-Wales today in a 26-tonne Volvo which is notorious for being poor off-road (it has automatic transmission and a mid-lift axle) but have had no particular problems. I should add that I deliver animal feed to farms and therefore spend a good deal of my time on untreated back roads.
I am somewhat relieved to see that Canadians have problems with snow as well; one would have assumed that they were masters of the art!
|
|
i always engine brake in this sort of weather and just finish off with the pedal i find it gives a lot more response and lessens the risk of the wheels locking and if they do your already slow enough not be in too much danger
|
|
Couple of posters have said pull away in 2nd gear - the principle applies throughout the journey on snow/ice - low revs and a high gear. Using the torque rather than the power of the engine is more effective and dampens throttle response reducing the likelihood of wheelspin and thus loss of grip from the driven wheels.
|
|
The alternative response to the original question is: 'As fast as possible, it's good fun and sharpens the responses!!'
Edited by Webmaster on 03/02/2009 at 00:40
|
Despite coming from Vancouver where no one knows how to drive in the snow either one piece of advice I learned from my old man was to drive up hills with the driven wheels at the rear. In these days of front wheel drive I find reversing my 406 up the slope to my house works far better than trying to drive forwards up. Canuck
My drive slopes uptowards the road, so may try to drive on forwards and see if it makes it easier to get off the drive.
By the way is the revese ratio lower or higher than other gears?
|
aww woodster, you beat me too it.
used to love driving in snow. FAST !
me and mates would get out late at night, around 12 to 02:00 and have a spin around a few islands, sometimes straight over, if we couldn't stop.
NEVER had an accident, learnt how to drive safely, whilst having fun, a few handbrake turns, a few bouncing off curbs. back when fiestas and metro's had proper steel wheels.
mind you, back in 1987, not as many cars on road.
just a red fiesta, white maestro, and blue metro.
and yes we used to park up in a red, white & blue formation. oh dear how sad....
went out on purpose tonight to fetch daughter from her mates, turned esp off in mini.
but just way too scared, to damage alloy and run flat. maybe £300? instead of a tap with hammer !!!
picked her up and did a few handbrake turns, she was laughing her head off.
and yes explained it was whilst no other car in sight. very wide road, maybe 300m each side of road no cars.
and yes it was fun, weeee.
then explained how i was using the engine to slow down, down a hill. not touching brakes.
remember all work and no play makes jack a very dull boy...
|
|
Welcome back by the way !
|
like that music track...
its been a few years.....
:-) Thx PU
|
|
My wife discovered her Focus has ABS, 3 times it kicked in today with 2 small skids & no impact. The 3rd ABS activation was when she stopped the car with me in it, I confirmed the ABS action, the vibration through the brake pedal was a bit unnerving for her. All those years of trying to train her to drive more smoothly with throttle life-off well in advance of the target and minimal braking etc, may as well talk to the trees....
|
Use the torque of the engine and not the revs, you will get far better traction in a higher gear at lower revs, its the revs that cause wheelspin, you will get a far better feel for grip - there is nothing wrong with a bit of speed (relatively) just keep it very smooth, use the gears as a brake and your brakes to finally stop.
It's not just a case of what you are doing - READ the road and be well aware of other numpty's who don't seem to have a clue - personally if they CAN'T drive in the conditions they should stay at home! and it would make it safer for all who can - but then I guess they think? they can drive.
God forbid that they lived in Scandinavia, it would be a case of stay at home for 4+ months at a time.
|
Best cars have little power and lots of low speed torque and thin tyres.
For example:
approx 8 cms of snow fell last night.
Mrs mikemadf drove out of local carpark up a hill and onto ringroad with no difficulty.
4x4 coming down the same hill lost control!
07 Astra diesel following Mrs got stuck going up same hill.
(Her car is a 1.4 diesel Peugeot 106 with 53bhp and 175 x60x13 tyres.)
Says it all really - and no, she is not a former rally driver...
|
|
|
|
|
|
