I am currently car less as I have sold my old one. I heatr about all these new schemes designed to encourage us to buy new cars. I have £1500 to spend. I am worried if I buy one now in 3 months time these new easy loans will send the price of older cars tumbeling if new ones are much cheaper to get hold off.
So I am not sure if I should just take the plunge when I see something I like or just wait.
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It's always a bad time, but some times are worse than others. If anyone genuinely knew that next month would be 'better', where would they be? Now could be a good time to buy a soft-top ...
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Now is a very good time to buy a car if you don't need to finance it with credit.
My brother in law (cash buyer) is looking at 3yr old Audi A3 TDIs which were £4k over budget six months ago.
All cars are rubbish investments, unless you can afford a low volume 'waiting list' job, and sell it after a couple of months.
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No - a very good time, they'll have just had lunch & resultant high blood sugar levels will just be starting to get mopped up by the insulin reaction - making them slighlty drowsy & suggestive: excellent time to put in a nice low offer!
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Events in the new car market are not, frankly, going to have much effect either way on the sub-£2k sector.
Used prices are, at the moment, well up from December with cars very expensive at auction and in the trade which will presumably filter its way through to retail level soon. Whether this is sustained further into the year no one knows.
At this exact point in time the best time to buy a used car in the last 12 months was December 2008. People who held off purchasing thinking there would be a further drop into January predicted wrong.
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I am noticing this too, I don't want another banger as we have established that its not suited to me, because I worry about every knock and rattle, but a car which is £1500 and say 8 years old should have a good four or five years life in it, I won't mind spending money to keep it on the road, but a 13 year old needing a new suspension, welding, possible clutch was just not worth keeping.
I have seen a few possibles in the form of low milleage Astra MK4s but they all seem to be around £1700 for a 8/9 year old example.
Fiat Puntos seem really good value but I believe some came out of the factory good, others bad you have know way of knowing. Ford Escorts are extremely good value but crude and not very safe.
If I see a car I like and everything looks genuine I shall buy it regardless of if its the right time or not.
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The old model Suzuki Swift is dirt cheap even in good cond and economical.
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Just not my thing though :(. And with nearly £2k to spend I think I can be a little fussy, especialy as there is no major rush. I am sick of all the hassle of buying and selling cars so when I buy it I plan to keep it for at least two years so I have to happy with it.
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>I am sick of all the hassle of buying and selling cars
Buying is dead easy - it's the selling that's difficult. Keeping it running is another thing.
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Rattle, tell me to go away but what about an old Focus like mine? Mine's 9 years old, worth about 1,200 privately and has NEVER gone wrong (touch wood-effect plastic).
Even J Clarkson's family owned a Y-reg Focus for "workhorse" duties.
For the budget you're looking at, an S/T/V reg Focus would seem ideal.
But this recommendation is remarkably similar to my others. In fact, I tell anyone to buy a Focus. I'm probably going to upgrade to a new Focus in about 9 months when I've made back my new front door money!
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>>I'm probably going to upgrade to a new Focus in about 9 months>>
Wot no Volvo?
Edited by Old Navy on 27/01/2009 at 19:08
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I just look forward to the ' My Focus is making a noise' thread :-)
As for JC's Focus - the man can spend whatever he needs to keep it going so using one as a workhorse may suggest he abuses it rather than its dependability - he has many cars to choose from.
If you want to know what cars are reliable, look what people on limited funds drive - for them reliability is a must. JC afterall had a Ford GT40 - not known for its ability to complete a journey if I recall.
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A Focus would be ideal but the 1.6 is pushing things with insurance (its do-able but it reduces my max budget to about £1400, I am not sure if there are any decnt Focuses for that money at my end).
The 1.4 is slow but it it might be more suitable for me as I am only doing city driving anyway.
Also looking at the MK2 Almeras which are in my budget.
Edit my friend once did something stupid and risked everything to buy a 1.8 Focus for £3k, he could not afford it. 5 years later the car now has done 140,000 (60k his) and he said its saved him so much money as nothign goes wrong apart from the usual stuff.
Edited by Rattle on 27/01/2009 at 19:27
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Stick the £2K down as deposit on a new cheap car like a Mk6 Fiesta or some awful pre-reg Micra etc. what you then spend on monthly payments can replace what you would normally spend trying to make the car "as new" :-)
As a different approach, have you actually ran a quote on a 1.6 Focus? I'll be very surprised if a 1.6 Focus is actually a whole £600 more expensive to insure than a 1.0 Corsa (which is the lowest group car I can think of), especially at your age.
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DP>>a low volume 'waiting list' job, and sell it after a couple of months.
In 2009???????
[irritating smug moment]I bought my new car from a small time trader who had bought it at auction mid December. By mid January when I bought it from him, for 15% over what he paid, it looked incredibly cheap... [/ism]
Edited by Mapmaker on 28/01/2009 at 09:52
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I don't mind old cars if there is no obvious major faults such as a knocking suspension. A new car would be at least 50% of my anual income and probably more like 60%. I just cannot justify it given the low milleage I do even though it is a nice idea. I am self employed too and I do all my own accounts so it will be quite hard to get a loan at any reasonable APR even though I do have good credit history.
A 1.6 Focus would be around £25 a month more to insure, over a year that is not much but over three years (the time I plan of keeping the car) it would add up to £900.
I am not expecting a perfect car, but my old just had far too many faults so I took it for an early MOT to see if it was just my imagination and it failed badly.
I will get a firm quote this afternoon on a 1.6 Focus.
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Spend 1K and keep a monkey back, no nasty shocks when you have to spend money on a repair.
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Yep any second hand car will need money spending on it if driving on warn tyres and blowing exhausts is not for you.
The balance is trying to get a fairly modern comfortable car, with some decent of amount of live left in it measured in years, with fairly simple mechanics and if it the belt has been changed its just the usual suspension, tyres, exhausts, servicing etc which need fixing.
I was checking my finances before, £1k is easy, £1500 is possible the right car but I would rather not spend that much, if I have to spend that much then it might be best not to have a car at all. I am taking me time, there are few cars on Autotrader but nothing that really seems a great bargain every thing seems a bit over priced unless they are expecting the buyer to haggle a lot.
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Why not put a "car wanted" post in the classifieds on here ? Be fairly specific about your preferences / needs but be a bit open minded too. Most of those who come here are interested enough in their cars to keep them in good order. Bet you there is something lurking in the BR which would suit.
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Ebay is better for getting bargin prices. I got a reliable runner with long MOT for £200 and it never let me down. Not really about the price of a car - some cars are worth alot less than others, its about the individual car and how its been looked after.
Does rather mean not being too picky about what you go for though and one is aware that you now are.
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Yep two problems I want something fairly safe so 3 star NCAP onwards really, and it has to be cheap to insure, I am well aware that these two in combination make a car worth more. I could pick up a 1.8 Escort for peanuts but its no use because of the above.
I am a bit open minded, e.g I test drove that Citroen Xsra even though I know nothing about PSAs.
Some of my ideas but I am probably missing a few things:-
Focus MK1
Astra MK4
Corsa B/C
Punto MK2
Clio MK2
Almera MK2
Polo MK3 - But seem to be silly money
Ibiza MK2
Skoda Fabia MK1
Skoda Octavia (do they do a 1.4? also may be a little big)
Post 99 MK4 Fiesta (providing its a well cared for one).
I am doing little milleage although that will probably increase, it is on road parking so rust protection is important. The few owners the better and server history is nice. The last two sheds have owned have all been high owners and no history.
I am sure I can afford a Focus 1.4 it is just a matter of waiting for the right one to appear.
Edit I have access to fairly cheap labour so cheap parts are also important. The Focus seems to be ticking every box so far, they are not too choose from just none on autotrader that meat my requirements yet.
Edited by Rattle on 28/01/2009 at 14:28
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There's a thread running on Pistonheads at the moment. It asks what's available for under a £1000 within 10 miles of a posters address. There's some amazing motors on there (probably not suited to you, but there's definitely some surprises)
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If you're not doing many miles consider a car with a bigger engine. The fuel cost would not be much more and quite a new car can be bought for peanuts.
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As mentioned here and other threads, my insurance is very expensive. I live in a terrace house in the middle of Manchester in a high risk post code, I need to be insured for business use, I am 26, passed in October, I am male so engine size does make quite a big difference.
That said if a 1.6 car was quite a bit cheaper I could stretch to the insurance, a 1.8 is really pushing things to over £100 a month.
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Just got some insurance quotes I am now confused very confused.
Fiat Punto 1.2 - £90 a month
Focus 1.6 LX - £92 a month
Corsa 1.2 16v £72 a month
Astra 1.6 - £96 a month
206 1.4 8V - £77 a month
Clio 1.2 - £92 a month
Almera MK2 1.5e - £99 a month
I don't get it, the Focus is group 6, the Clio is group 3, yet the Focus is the same price?
All of the above are for 'lx' type trim levels.
It seems that a Focus is ideal after all, the 1.8 is £98 a month and £90 for insurance is my limit really, £92 is ok but £98 is just too much. I have to draw a line and I don't need performance, a 1.6 is more than fast enough for me.
And for a bit of a joke, the Lada Riva 1.2 1987 is £58 a month.
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I sympathise with the insurance. We used to live in Old Trafford and the insurance was brutal. We live a bit further out now - still a Manchester postcode so not cheap, but better than it was.
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Yep and you can see that £20 a month is quite a big difference if you already have a loan to pay off too. I live next door to Old Trafford in somewhere cum hardy insurance is still every expensive and even Didsbury is an extremely high risk area.
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"There's a thread running on Pistonheads at the moment. It asks what's available for under a £1000 within 10 miles of a posters address."
It's a lot of fun that game MLC, seeing what's available from each manufacturer for a grand on autotrader within walking distance. A very tidy 1996 XJ6 8 miles from my UK address going for 950 quid. If you go up to 2k you start to catch decent early 90s S 500s. I king of wish you hadn't posted that, it's become quite addictive.
Edited by Big Bad Dave on 29/01/2009 at 17:31
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It certainly wets my appetite for an old barge. There's some very tidy motors on there for a grand.
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Rattle, you admit you don't do many miles, so why not go the whole hog and save up for 3 or 4 years and then get something decent? When I bought my first property (a modest maisonette) I had to sell my car to enable me to have some money to buy furniture. Ever since then I've been pleased I made the sacrifice.
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Rattle, if you're over 25 (I know you are) and rarely use a car... have you considered hiring when you need a car? If insurance is over £1000pa then that's a lot of hire cars or taxis. And then use the bus the rest of the time?
How many miles do you think you will really do per annum? How many days per month do you need a car?
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It is more a want than 'need' and also allow me to get more practise at driving to get confidence in case I ever get a job which requires me to drive. The problem is I never ever know when I need a car it is usualy at minutes notice, and now I don't have one I have realised how handy it was.
But I agree that paying £100 a month insurance is a little excessive if I don't need the car all the time.
Its sort of why I am half considering a late model Corsa B with low milleage FSH etc as insurance would be less than £60 a month. I do have a planned trip to Anglesey in the summer and it looks like we need to take two cars as my mate is buying a Puma so I was thinking a Focus would be perfect for that.
However I do really want to not have to spend more than £1200 but I will spend £1500 on a Focus if it is a good one.
I was doing 1500 PA in my Fiesta but there was times I stopped using it as I didn't trust it, with a decent car I would probably do 3000 a year max.
Atm I am also spending very little so hopefully I will have cash to put towards a car.
The perfect scenario would be to buy a car for £1000, put £500 back for repairs, £60 max a month insurance, that way I have got into very little debt to buy the car but it really does depend what is out there. The great thing about not being in a rush is I can save a little but also buy something better.
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Don't forget a Seat Ibiza 1.2 will be group 2 insurance. You can't really get anything serious which is cheaper to insure. £1500 should get you quite a good one, and they are very nice to drive for what they are.
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It is more a want than 'need' ..........
Try suppressing your "wants" ~ you can't have everything all at once. In modern parlance, you'll have to prioritise your purchases.
Edited by L'escargot on 29/01/2009 at 15:25
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This sounds daft but if I canceled now won't I loose a lot on my insurance policy? I suppose I didn't want to forget how to drive which is why I rushed into getting a car when I passed but that novelty has worn off now. The problem is not having a car does cause problems with my business and has done for the past three years.
The sensible thing would be not to buy a car but then I have never been good at sensible!
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Your NCB will stay "alive" for two years after the end of the policy.
My tip - buy the lowest ins gp car you can find for a max of £700. The simpler the better, and old enough to have a carb, not an ECU, injection etc. Fiat Uno, for example, which is a Gp 1. OK, no cred, but I drove one for a year not that long ago and it was happy at 70 mph, like all Italian cars.
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The sensible thing would be not to buy a car but then I have never been good at sensible!
Bearing in mind your appparently dire financial straits, and as much as we enjoy your posts, the sensible thing would be for you to devote more of your time to earning money and spend less of your time on here!
;-)
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Re: A late Corsa B with FSH.
Two words: "Camshaft failure"
Seems to be 1.2 models at least.
Search this site if you are bored. Common failure at low miles (eg 20 thou).
I've driven maybe 500,000 miles in the past 20 yrs in 20 different cars and have never seen a snapped camshaft.
Vauxhall's out-of-warranty help seems very patchy also regarding this.
Edited by Lygonos on 29/01/2009 at 16:02
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It'd be no fun if it was only non-earners on here all day Mr Snail!! :-) Although you wouldn't have any moderation...
Not sure we should be putting Rattle off having a car - he's getting on a bit too ya know. I don't know many 25+ yo's that don't have a car...
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Rattle, you said: "This sounds daft but if I canceled now won't I loose a lot on my insurance policy? "
Well if you're well into the policy then you'll get very little (even nothing) back. It depends.
Hope you find something in the £1000-1500 price range. Car that is and not insurance. Insurance for your post code (and mine) is too high due to the surrounding postcodes.
Don't let the snail put you off. My suggestion of hire cars was based on knowing when you needed a car. You obviously do not know that much in advance.
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As it's a Want rather than a need, take your time.
Just keep your eyes open and look. And save.
Eventually you will see something you like, can afford and is good value for money.
The car market is going nowhere in a hurry Despite what the government claim, the recession is likely to last all 2009, and some of 2010 and even then any recovery si going to be slow.
In that time lots of people will be selling cars as they are jobless and can't afford to run one.
Edited by madf on 29/01/2009 at 16:36
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I don't know many 25+ yo's that don't have a car...
nor who passed their driving test at 25+ even though apparently writing on forums about their driving solo long before passing the test.
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I never once claimed I had past my test, I just did not mention I was a learner, I did that on purpose as mosts my posts were in technical and I was new here at the time, people tend to bite hard on new forums. It was only once I had passed and started posting in the general section I mentioned it. However I have purchased two cars before I passed my test one for myself 'Rattle, it had a camshaft problem' and one for my dad.
Regard to corsa cambelt snap I thought it was only the Corsa C's which suffered from that?
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Rattle said >> ... people tend to bite hard on new forums ... >>
Focus said >> In Rattle's defence, his musings are comprehensive ... >>
;-) "comprehensive" is certainly one way of putting it.
After Rattle had been on here for over 6 months, a MOD was "driven" [possibly in his BMW535] to add this to his musings:
"... tempted to add it to the numerous other threads concerning Rattle's Fiesta, ;lucky HJ's not charging by the Post ! - PU "
;-)
Edited by jbif on 29/01/2009 at 20:40
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That was my MK3, had lots of engine problems but my dad ended up using it and managed to get around 4000 miles in about 5 months before the engine conked out, my dads Escort was SORN at the time. Cars I may have posted about on here
Mates Fiesta MK3
My old Fiesta MK3
Dads Fiesta MK4
My old Fiesta MK4
My dads old Escort MK6
My friends Clio MK2
I can see how it 'seems' I have made countless posts about my Fiesta, but it is actually four different cars.
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I can see how it 'seems' I have made countless posts about my Fiesta, but it is actually four different cars. >>
No problem at all, you carry on posting as it is fun reading about your trials and tribulations. And it helps HJ's site traffic count. I am just making an observation that a MOD said something in response to those "countless posts" as you refer to them.
[ Note that in all the posts I have in mind, you claim the car is yours. ]
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My dads MK4 was mine, I bought bought it! I have been paid for it now so its his.
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My dads MK4 was mine, I bought bought it! I have been paid for it now so its his. >>
;-) Are you trying to outdo Vicki Pollard? ;-)
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nor who passed their driving test at 25+ even though apparently writing on forums about their driving solo long before passing the test.
In Rattle's defence, his musings are comprehensive and endearing and very motoring related. I've been driving 16 years (I'm 33) and often feel, compared to others, that this is not enough to qualify. I love this forum because, though technically retarded, I dig the concept of "car" - if that makes sense. Plus I quite like getting up Stu's nose which I seem to achieve by just being myself.
Bad luck with your insurance Rattle. Apparently I'm in an extremely low risk area and have dirt cheap insurance but it was still at the figures you're looking at now when I'd passed my test. Anyway, make a go of your business and soon you can lord it over the rest of us.
Good luck with your search.
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>>Plus I quite like getting up Stu's nose which I seem to achieve by just being myself.<<
I rather enjoy a spot of that myself. One solid right-wing comment is usually all it needs :-)
Id be lost without Rattle's frequent musings, they remind me so much of my early car owning days. Now Im older, a bit wiser, more misery and seem to have found a car that I cant convince myself that i will ever need to get rid of. What is the world coming to!
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Rattle, if you are only doing a low mileage why not go for a nice old well maintained luxo barge that would be eligible for classic insurance on a low mileage policy?
One of my motors costs me just over £170 a year, limited to 5000 miles a year. Fully comp. Insurance group 20! :-)
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Because classic policy's tend to exclude business use and I have to be insured for carrying clients computers. The classic policies are cheap because they assume you will take care of the car and not use it for high risk business stuff.
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I used to use my Westfield for business on days when I only needed a briefcase or a small bag. Told the ins co. the truth about that and they weren't at all concerned.
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There is a bit of a difference though between that and driving all over south Manchester with computers in the boot. It might be worth enquiring about, I would not mind a mid 80's 190E but it would just get nicked.
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If you are in a big urban bit like manchester is there not one of these so called green car share clubs? I'm not sure how they operate but why not look into it. Usually subsidised by some flawed government scheme but may fit the bill for you.
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Rattle, what you need is a tradesman's bicycle complete with advertising plate. They have nice big carriers at the front quite capable of carrying a computer and all your tools etc., and riding one would help to keep you fit.
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"Rattle, what you need is a tradesman's bicycle complete with advertising plate."
Or come into the 21st C with a smart scooter with good panniers. Now that PCs have flat screens it's a lot easier carrying the kit.
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>A smart scooter with good panniers ..
A bit nickable perhaps?
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"A bit nickable perhaps?"
Couple of good locks - inc one with a long chain to use round lamp posts, street signs etc.
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Come on, guys, cut the lad a bit of slack!
At least he tends to steer clear of much of the usual middle-aged middle-class rambling posted elsewhere....
Rattle is clearly sufferering from the modern phenomenon of 'choice anxiety' - people are now tying themselves in knots agonising over potentially making the 'wrong' buying decision, whether it be cars, dishwashers, TVs. Very few buying decisions for such consumables will be irretrievably disastrous - just get rid and move on.
In the fullness of time, his postings will 'mature' to musings on interest rates, immigration, vitamin supplements, additional voluntary contributions etc. etc.
Oh, FWIW - Citroën AX :-)
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It might be worth you having quotes for a larger car, you say you don't do a large milage and because young inexperienced drivers tend to bump up the premiums on small hatches.
406?, booted cars tend to be cheaper than hatchbacks and the boot would be secure. Buy on condition rather than low mileage what ever you choose
;o)
Edited by Dox on 30/01/2009 at 11:20
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A 406 1.6 might be ok. HJ this seems to be the problem on autorader at the moment everything is just far too expensive that what is should be. I remember in 2002 we bought a 6 year old Escort with 60k and FSH for £1500 now try getting a 6 year old Astra for that, you will be looking at twice that.
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"now try getting a 6 year old Astra for that"
Some around in my area for that price, but this segment has if anything risen in the downturn/increase in petrol prices. The trick is to go a bit bigger - the same age Vectra/Mondeo will be cheaper, but this is not so easy for you because of your lack of NCB/experience.
Or go for the unloved - Skoda/Nissan/Seat/Citroen all fall out of favour at this age.
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I agree with OldSock. Like Rattle I'm suffering from a little choice anxiety (father needs a new car soon) although I am similar in age to Focus Driver. The sums concerned are clearly a lot to Rattle and I once faced high insurance premiums. Give him credit, he's making a good effort to live within his means and he's making a go of his business.
Rattle, I'm not sure what the market is like up in Manchester but, have you considered a mkII Micra (reasonable parts prices) or even looking at a local paper from an area in the your region where the population is slightly older? You may find a half decent motor with a wad of invoices for servicing. I know there always the low mileage debate but, an older Hyundai may come well within your budget leaving cash for insurance or the odd water pump.
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