Are there any experts out there who can say whether this scenario is possible....
(sorry if it's a familiar tale to some...)
HGV driver is banned for 2 years, drink driving. He says he can't find his licence, but really it's hidden.
Ban expires, so he produces the old licence, and goes back to work driving HGVs.
I think I'm right in saying that after a 2 year ban for DD you'll never get insured for an HGV for at least 10 years?
HGVs are dangerous enough without having a dangerous clown driving them.
Edited by Pugugly on 26/01/2009 at 20:53
|
"I think I'm right in saying that after a 2 year ban for DD you'll never get insured for an HGV for at least 10 years?"
Where do you get that info from?
The Traffic Commissioners have the right to extend the ban on an LGV licence beyond the car ban, and they can remove the LGV licence permanently, and I think normally do so following a second DD ban.
www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/13620.aspx
|
Friend of mine couldn't get insured for a company car even though his DD ban was 8 years before and only 1 year, otherwise clean. I'm no expert though.
So can you get insured for an HGV after being banned for 2 years? I don't know myself, but my instinct is "no".
|
It's not insurance that would be the big issue initially - it's getting your licence back - very likely you'd need to go for a medical where blood would be checked looking for evidence of ongoing alcohol misuses.
Just because you get a 2 yr ban from your HGV licence doesn't mean the DVLA will give it back after this time.
|
|
I agree there but my original question was, what if he hid his original licence, then after the ban expired, produced it and claimed never to have been banned at all - outrageous I know but if you're crazy enough can it be done?
|
|
|
If I've got holdof the stick correctly, what bananastand is suggesting is that the bannee could get his licence back legitimately, whatver that takes, but when he applies for a job he can produce the physical licence he "lost" which of course has no record of the offence on it.
It sounds feasible to me, provided that the old licence is still in date. Does a prospective employer do any checks that would interrogate the DVLA records?
|
He could get the job by physically having a licence, but if the employer decided to ask DVLA he'd he stuffed, as their computer would show him as not having a valid licence. I would imagine most companies would do this as a matter of course, as what you are describing isn't exactly a new phenomenon in either HGV or PLG licencing.
Also if he subsequently was involved in an accident his insurance would be void, and his employer would be well within their rights to dismiss him, and then pursue for any loss he caused.
|
|
well, his ban is now over, but I am convinced he is back driving lorries and I don't see how he can legitemately be doing this. hmmmmm
|
www.crimestoppers.co.uk/
There ya go.
|
|
I don't know, when I was younger, it was popular to get a duplicate license (claiming lost license) and keep the duplicate for points, and the clean original one for job interviews, hiring cars etc...
|
|
|
|
Bananastand; your original suggestion (erroneous) was that the driver in question would not be able to get a job due to insurance restrictions. I would respectfully suggest that this is mere conjecture on your part; if he was banned for two years, then as soon as his ban is finished he can return to driving HGV's, subject to the following;
1) That the local Traffic Commissioner has not added a longer supension on his HGV licence; vocational drivers are often called to a face-to-face meeting with said TC after a ban, and this is an option, though not mandatory. It could well be that the driver's previous good conduct got him off with a warning.
2) That his employer's insurer is willing to accept him as a driver.
I must admit that I am surprised that the moderators have not pulled this post. It is proof that a little knowledge is dangerous.
BTW, I can speak from experience on several points; I was fool enough to get banned myself in 1992 and had to go before the TC, and some years ago I did come across the scenario which you stated whilst working as a recruitment consultant. The candidate concerned had "lost" his licence when he got caught drink-driving, applied for another one and produced the unmarked one after his ban had finished. I caught him out by checking references as any reputable employer should.
Perhaps Pugugly or other could correct me on this, but I'm fairly sure that if you get nicked for DD today the police confiscate your driving licence to ensure that this cannot happen.
|
Perhaps Pugugly or other could correct me on this, but I'm fairly sure that if you get nicked for DD today the police confiscate your driving licence to ensure that this cannot happen. <<
You are under absolutely no obligation to be carrying your licence while you drive.
You also cannot be forced into producing the hardcopy of the licence as it may indeed be lost when you look for it.
|
You are under absolutely no obligation to be carrying your licence while you drive.
I am aware of that.......You also cannot be forced into producing the hardcopy of the licence as it may indeed be lost when you look for it.
Could that not render you liable to be charged with "failure to produce"?
Edited by Harleyman on 26/01/2009 at 22:37
|
MOT and Insurance (although both can be checked electronically these days).
Been a while (about 20 yrs) since I was given a 'producer' - pretty sure the Licence wasn't required then.
If you can't produce a document for inspection then you can get replacements from the appropriate agency (potentially leaving you with a nice clean licence when you "find" the lost copy).
|
|
You are under absolutely no obligation to be carrying your licence while you drive. You also cannot be forced into producing the hardcopy of the licence as it may indeed be lost when you look for it.
I thought that it was technically an offence NOT to show your license when required and the producer was just an option.
I may be wrong and I am sure one of the guys in hats on here will put us right
|
|
I believe its an offence too, but I still never carry my documents.
|
Google is your friend ;-)
www.legalbanter.co.uk/uk-legal-moderated-legal-top...l
(Beware of the excessive pedantry if you click the link!)
Edited by Lygonos on 27/01/2009 at 00:39
|
I still never carry my documents.
*cue large amercian car, copper with smokey the bear hat and sunglasses*
"Drivers license and registration, please..."
Still trying to work out the logic of NOT carrying your credit-card sized license with you... why would you want the extra work of having to attend the plod-shop to produce the thing at a later date?
|
Because in UK both parts are required. If you produce a licence on the spot when asked for it and it has 6 points on it (say) you are less likely to get a talking to than if it is clean. A week later when you produce it at a police station all they are interested in is the validity and currency. The points are irrelevant and moment for getting grief about them was a week ago. The man noting the details isn't bothered.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
HGVs are dangerous enough without having a dangerous clown driving them.
Ditto cars, vans, motorcycles, mopeds, scooters, ............
Edited by L'escargot on 27/01/2009 at 07:10
|
In answer to the erudite gentleman who posted about there being no reason why someone coming off a 2 year DD ban shouldn't drive an HGV, I agree, however...
I still stay, based on very little knowledge, that either the insurance will be impossible to get or will be insanely expensive.
I am perfectly willing to be corrected by a higher authority
|
If you accept that, then given that you admit to having no knowledge of the exact circumstances, then please what was the point of the original posting? Am I remiss in suggesting that it has to do with personal feelings against the driver in question?
I would suggest that the person you are referring to is a very lucky man and obviously has a good employer who values his skills and is prepared to give the man another chance after his bout of stupidity. Since it is no secret that anyone who has recently come off a driving ban may find themselves the subject of enhanced scrutiny by the law, it would be incredibly foolish of either the driver or his employer to take risks here; both could easily end up in jail in the unlikely (my guess) event that they're deliberately breaking the law.
|
|
|
|
