Trust me you would not want to buy my wife's car after 1 year and 10K so I guess mileage is not that good an indicator. I believe HJ has been saying that for years. Joking apart we are a bit obsessed with mileage - I know it is AN indicator but I read about allot of Hondas and Subarus that do 300K-500K but are fine as they have frequent oil changes.
I bet the VW boys will be along soon to tell us that they get the same durability with long life servicing. :-)
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I bet the VW boys will be along soon
We will certainly hear them coming given the racket made by those supposedly modern VW diesels.
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What racket? My wife's Passat 1.9 Tdi is on 149,000 miles on the variable service interval.
I do get fed up with the anti-VW contingent on here banging on about noisy engines. The car is no more or less noisy than any other diesel, certainly not from the drivers seat and that is all that matters IMHO.
If a car has genuinely done 150K on the motorway then the engine is indeed very likely to be in better condition than a low mileage short trip motor that has never been up to optimum operating temperature for very long.
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I quite liked the noise of my old-tech 1.9 110 Toledo.
Shame about the water feature. The cress in the footwell did make it carbon neutral, though.
Edited by mss1tw on 20/01/2009 at 18:55
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...What racket?...
Test drove a Golf diesel a year or so ago and that was noisier than my Focus diesel.
Never been in a (moving) Passat, so I'll take your word on that.
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The car is no more or less noisy than any other diesel certainly not from the drivers seat and that is all that matters IMHO.>>
Thanks a lot, v8man. So I'm supposed not to mind when my next-door neighbour starts up his wretched Passat and leaves it to warm up?
(Not knocking VW particularly. When I hired a MB E-class diesel in Germany a couple of years ago, I actually found it rather spooky the way it sounded like a different car - or van - when you opened the window.)
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>>Thanks a lot, v8man. So I'm supposed not to mind when my next-door neighbour starts up his wretched Passat and leaves it to warm up?
I can assure you my next door neighbours ancient P reg Vauxhall Calbra is a damn site noisier first thing!
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Just to be clear. The two cars in the original scenario don't exist. They are purely hypothetical. I am just interested in opening a discussion on people's attitude to mileage as a specific value indicator. Therefore, for the purposes of the discussion I was asking that we assume that both cars have been properly maintained and are visually at least, indistinguishable.
However, for the fun of it, let's put some numbers in, let's suppose the 50k car was valued at a forecourt price of say, £7000. What do we think the high mileage one would be priced at? And, given current circs, what prices do we think we could actually do the deals at?
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The car is no more or less noisy than any other diesel,
I'm guessing v8 you have never heard a BMW or Honda diesel ?
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>>What racket? My wife's Passat 1.9 Tdi is on 149,000 miles on the variable service interval
My A4 TDi is also on 149000 miles on longlife servicing - so far it burns no oil, makes no extra noises that it shouldnt and continues to be reliable. My mpg is no better than mid to low 40s at the moment though which needs some more investigating - sticking brake/handbrake problem re-occuring I think.
I think I would rather have a slightly noisier diesel when the windows are down with proven reliability rather than a commonrail thing that chews through dual mass flywheels and blocked up particulate filters! - My next car is going to be petrol if I dont go for another VAG PD.
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I think I would rather have a slightly noisier diesel when the windows are down with proven reliability rather than a commonrail thing that chews through dual mass flywheels and blocked up particulate filters! - My next car is going to be petrol if I dont go for another VAG PD.
VAG diesels are fitted with, and chew up DMF's
Oh and they are now fitted with, and block up particulate filters.
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>>VAG diesels are fitted with, and chew up DMF's
>>Oh and they are now fitted with, and block up particulate filters.
Your riight! Should have said I wont be buying a PD one of those either - my Dad has a 2.0 TDi 170 and has had sporadic mis-fire problems despite doing 25K pa and my next door neighbour has a Passat 2.0Tdi 140 that has let him down 3 times since it was delivered 18 months ago due to the engine cutting out on motorways.
My mileage has dropped to less than 15K pa now so will be getting a nice V6 of some sort whilst I still can :-))
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I do get fed up with the anti-VW contingent on here banging on about noisy engines. The car is no more or less noisy than any other diesel certainly not from the drivers seat and that is all that matters IMHO.
Your deaf.
oh BTW I am a VW driver - I am allowed to comment.
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Ok - I'll try answering my own question then....;-)
Let us suppose that the high mileage car can be obtained for approximately half the price of the average mileage one.
What is your money buying with the higher priced car ?
Twice as much reliability ?
Twice as much usefulness ?
Half the risk ?
Considerably more depreciation exposure ?
Or....none of the above ?
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>>I'm guessing v8 you have never heard a BMW or Honda diesel ?
On the contrary, I have driven many miles in 320d. From the inside there is nothing in it IMHO.
My current car is Jetta 2.0 140 sport and the engine is drowned out by the roar of the low profile tyres, something I noticed while driving the Beemer as well.
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>>Your deaf.
oh BTW I am a VW driver - I am allowed to comment.
Pardon?
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Er - Hello ?? Anybody there ??
;-)
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If presented with two cars in the same condition visually but one with 100K more and half the price, I would go for the higher mileage one, providing it had a service history to back everything up and it checked out ok.
Not only is the cost to buy less, the depreciation is less on a higher mileage car as its already lost more! I bought a Rover 75 for very little a few years ago as it had 185,000 miles on it - two years and 45,000 miles later I traded it in for slightly more than I paid for it - total expenditure on servicing and replacing parts cost less than £500 a year as well - cheap motoring!!
My A4 is going the same way - bought with 110,000 two years ago and is worth about £2k less now at 150,000 miles. Its still in great shape - no signs of the mileage other than the figures on the odo and again has cost me less than £500 a year which includes servicing/two sets of tyres etc.
Contrast that to my wifes low mileage MINI that had loads of problems and sold 12 months later with a 3K loss and her new GPunto that is 2 months old and I dread to think what that is worth today!
Cost wise, bought correctly a higher mileage car is good value IMO.
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the noisiest diesel in our street is a jaguar. there are various vauxhalls, bmw, toyota, vag,peugot. jag ( 1.9pd bora)
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I'd probably take the 150k miles one, at a £1000 discount.
However, it's impossible to verify (although if only 5 years old, 30k a year would not be pleasant on anything but motorways).
Having said that, I did buy a 11 year old car with 54k on the clock this year..(It drives like new..). The history is probably the most important thing. With a full history, most cars will be ok.
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A well maintained 150k car properly used will obviously have more wear in many areas than a well maintained properly used 50k car. It's not just the engine which we tend to focus on but every bearing and pivot etc on the car. Greater wear on interior trim and more times through the car wash can also be an issue on the high miler giving rise to a rounded off at the edges look.
Having said that the actual risk of a breakdown is probably not a huge amount more with the high mileage as long as maintainence is kept up.
Over the decades we have been happy to buy and run loads of high milers saving loads in depreciation and apart from one worn out Citroen BX at over 240k they've all been fine and given us the chance to buy newer/better cars than we'd otherwise have at a particular price point.
If you're buying they need to be cheap to give a bit in the bank just in case. On a £7k car I'd expect to pay £1500 or more less for the added 100k.
David
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i brought a car a while back it looked good had a low mileage it seemed a really good bargain 6 months later it cost me £250 for welding it wasnt a lemon it just wasnt something a roadside visual inspection would pick up.
if your buying a used car i think a bit of extra expense on a trained evaluation is worth more then taking a chance on a bargain based on only one specific aspect of a vehicle
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My current car has almost 140k on the clock, and apart from a couple of parking dents, looks pretty much like new. I still pile 500 miles a week on it most weeks, and it's fine. Rarely done a short journey in its life, maintained to schedule, and feels very fit for it. I suspect a 60,000 mile example of the same car that's been treated poorly, andskipped a few services wouldn't drive anywhere near as well, or be as reliable.
There are many examples of my car, and its mechanically identical estate sibling which have racked up 250+k on original engines and gearboxes and continue to be reliable and perfectly useable daily drivers.
When that sixth digit on the odometer has lit up or rolled over, nobody wants it. Long may it continue!
Edited by DP on 20/01/2009 at 22:20
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Can't put a hard and fast rule on this low mileage value thing, as a used car is a completely individual thing, no 2 cars will be alike after 50K let alone 150K.
Regardless of the servicing schedule being adhered to, there are so may variables in the use the car will have had, the driving standards, the mechanical sympathy, the care and attention, the type of roads, the times of year, and the quality of servicing all add up.
Some cars will be ready for the tip at 50K, others will be fine and dandy at 150K.
You can only judge any car you want to buy on what you can see of the vehicle, backed up by whatever evidence is presented, which must be carefully weighed against what you feel about the whole thing.
How may times have you found that perfect vehicle with the correct history etc, but something just doesn't fit.
We almost bought a 2 year old 20K miler Amazon from a Toyo dealer with full Toyo used car back up, the steering wheel wasn't straight ahead and one new tyre had been fitted to the rear which led me to believe the front n/s had taken a whack against something hard, Landcruisers do not bend easy and the air susp was sluggish, they fixed the suspension by topping the oil up..full service history?
(The sales person didn't think the 10 to 2 steering wheel was out of the ordinary, i hope he doesn't try for a job on the Amazon production line, Mr Toyota may have something to say...)
Everything else was fine, but thats just an example of when something doesn't add up.
I too prefer lower mileage vehicles and with the correct documentation and condition i am prepared to pay a hefty price difference for them.
I think the type or spec of car makes a big difference here, if you go to buy a GTI or Turbo'd wide wheeled jobbie, do not expect the first owners to be as considerate as the mature couple who owned the 1.9 auto diesel saloon in bottle green with tan leather, and full original overmats.
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Other half has a Mk 1 CRV - 104,000 miles. Bodywork is as new, only the alloys needs some work to bring them up to equivalent condition of body. Seats are perfect - no signs of wear. Hasn't needed anything done to pass the last 4 MOTs. Other than regular oil changes, a new set of tyres, and a new exhaust, the car has been otherwise neglected.
It's got an auto box - and I would argue that with an auto, it's a lot more difficult to thrash, as the auto box simply won't let you!
Neighbour has a 3 year old Megane - never out of the workshop, seats are threadbare down the RHS of driver's seat, done 15,000 miles to the local shops and back. I wuoldn't touch it with a barge pole, but I'll hang on to the CRV though!
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