tinyurl.com/98wcwr
AIUI, this seems a really bad idea.
"The new offence of keeping an uninsured car will not apply to any motorist who has filled out a form - known as a Statutory Off Road Notification - confirming that the vehicle is not being driven"
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So the classic car owner, paying no money for his/her tax disc, who does not insure for twelve months of the year, or stops insurance during a re-furb, is clobbered unless they SORN very time the car goes off the insurance register.
A bad case of being found guilty without the defendant being able to prove their innocence.
I can't see how this will prevent un-insured drivers to any extent, other than if they buy a car with current tax, but then fail to insure it. They'll still flag on ANPR, surely?
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Well we all know how efficient the DVLA is so SORNing and unSORNing will be no hassle . Yeah right.
Every day , some bit of sledge hammer - nut legislation is rolled out by those that think they are in power only to control. A big fine... this govts answer to every problem.
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Or to paraphrase slightly "This government is the problem to any answer!"
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Let us not forget that every motor insurance policy sold has a nice little govt earner on it in the form of the Insurance Premium tax. Presently around 5% but likely to hit double figures in the next budget.
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So the classic car owner paying no money for his/her tax disc who does not insure for twelve months of the year or stops insurance during a re-furb is clobbered unless they SORN very time the car goes off the insurance register.
Most classic car owners would take an off-road policy to cover fire & theft during works.
SORNing/UnSORNing is a very simple process that can be done on-line in a few minutes
MVP
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I have to say, I tend to SORN the bike for a few months at each road tax expiry as I know I'm not using it (it stays insured though). I do it online, and it takes less than 2 minutes. Re-licensing is never a hassle either. I think the DVLA is one of the few government departments that largely seems to work.
It still won't stop the hardcore who drive through ANPR cameras with impunity on cloned plates.
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"Most classic car owners would take an off-road policy to cover fire & theft during works."
Indeed, but it won't be insured under the Road Traffic Act, just for fire/theft/damage while off the road, so it's won't appear on the MID during that time.
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So the classic car owner paying no money for his/her tax disc who does not insure for twelve months of the year or stops insurance during a re-furb is clobbered unless they SORN very time the car goes off the insurance register. >>
That was precisely my situation early last year. The car failed its MOT in a big way, but I am hanging on to it for the moment. I transfered the insurance onto another car, but left the tax to run out as it was Nil anyway. When it came due for renewal, I SORNed it.
It would have been easy to SORN at the same time as transfering the insurance, so I'm not that bothered about the change.
SORN, unlike road tax, appears to run on a daily basis.
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... The new offence of keeping an uninsured car ...>
Discussed on this forum previously when the new law was passed:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=48187&...f ,i>
"Those of you with an interest in Traffic Law may wish to read the explanatory notes in relation to this Act that received Royal Assent in November last year.
Much has yet to be brought in as law by Statutory Intrument but at least will give an idea what is bubbling....
www.tinyurl.com/ykad7y
dvd"
and before that:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=36407&...f
Illegal to keep an un-insured car?
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=35141&...f
Uninsured motorists facing fines
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4295834.stm
Friday, 30 September 2005
" .. the new powers will make it illegal to own a car without insuring it or declaring that it is not being used. .."
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new law still doesn't cover Mr Chav insuring his tweeked Corsa using his grandad's date of birth and stating it hasn't been modified and he has no driving convictions
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Unless I've misunderstood it's only an offence to keep an uninsured vehicle on the highway? If it's off road, in the drive etc. it only needs sorning.
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another tax on the motorist
and yet another attempt to criminalise the law abiding while letting the criminal off scot free
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I appreciate that I am a little stupid but I don't understand this view.
How is it another tax on the motorist. If you don't want to insure it you sorn it, that costs nothing.
All our cars are taxed and insured how does this new law attempt to criminalise me?
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"Unless I've misunderstood it's only an offence to keep an uninsured vehicle on the highway?"
Always was.
Edited by Fullchat on 20/01/2009 at 21:06
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But how do you get around that?
I would have thought that it would make enforcement easier. There's a car (desn't matter where it is) - is it insured yes - no problems
Is it insured - no - is it on SORN - no - Offence
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I've not read the the legislation yet but the bit I have read relates to a 'Court Order'
Now a Court Order is not required to seize an uninsured vehicle which is on a road / public place etc.
In which case what I am thinking here is that a vehicle can be taken from your driveway (garage?) if it is not insured and SORN'd.
If SORN is declared then an uninsured vehicle is OK on private property.
Uuuum. Must get swotting!
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In which case what I am thinking here is that a vehicle can be taken from your driveway (garage?) if it is not insured and SORN'd.
That is precisely the major change - plus you will get a letter saying - oi! buy a policy or else - so you won't be able to say I didn't know
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'If you don't want to insure it you sorn it, that costs nothing.'... at the moment it's free but I fully expect a charge to SORN and UnSORN once this law is under way. After all, we can't expect the DVLA to carry out a service for free.
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Mr X,
It does cost them but the cost should be covered by other income into DVLA. I cannot remember the figure, but during my DVLA tour in 2002 (?) someone mentioned they made a lot from cherished plates even then.
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The DVLA have just held a consultation exercise in which they asked the public which items they would rather pay more for as they need to raise more funds. They need to meet targets and as they are falling behind, SORN charging will be considered as a golden goose when you think how many more motorists will be doing it.
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Which consulation was that?
The one on driver transactions that specifically states that it will not apply to vehicle transactions, of which SORN is one? Or another one that is unpublished on the DVLA website?
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There was a thread on here relating to the consultation. The DVLA was basically saying ' we have to raise more money - you tell us what we should clobber ".
The fact that they say it won't apply can be matched with Labours famous ' No Tax Increases " promise !!
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I suggest that you go and read the consulation on the DVLA website:
www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/consultations/cons%20100...f
and then comment.
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No point. Consultation only means something when both parties come to a mutual agreement following the consultation. The DVLA will do what the govt ' suggests " and give scant regard to our input.
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The DVLA has a duty to break even across all of it's activities. It does that and it is exactly how it should operate.
I would think that your view would be that was a good thing - no general subsidy of "useless" civil servants by the general taxpaying population?
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Complain to your MP, or become an MP yourself.
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I have no real objection to 'sorning' my vehicles, I do about 6 a year now. However, the only reason for introducing the 'sorn' rules, that I can think of, is to create offence of 'failing to declare sorn' or 'using a 'sorned vehicle on the road', in order to generate more revenue from fines. I can see the MOT being the next for the sorn rules. I do not see that it is any business of the authorities if you legally own something you are allowed to own, vehicle, settee, budgie, anything, the principle is the same, and it remains on your own premises.
Many backroomers will remember that in the early 80s, the Gov tried to tax all cars, whether they were on the road or not. This led to the forming of the Federation of British Historic Vehicles Club whic was successful in having this legislation dropped.
Ted
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' Many backroomers will remember that in the early 80s, the Gov tried to tax all cars, whether they were on the road or not.
Perhaps we are seeing the beginning of a back door route in to the idea then. I really can't believe that DVLA will not introduce a charge for Sorning and UnSorning. As people have said on here, they are not a charity, they have to be self financing. Question is, what happens to any excess they make in their financial dealings ?
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does it mean that all cars at the breakers will have to be insured, after all they have the log books ?
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Another point, why does SORN have to be renewed annually ? There's no point. It could just run from declaration to point of re-taxing or disposal. My Raleigh has been off the road for many years and yet I have to declare SORN every year.
Ted
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How will dealers operate ?
Will they have to put the reg on their trade policies as soon as they take the car in ?
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