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I am now considering an LPG van instead of diesel. Although you are very limited for choice on the (used) market, going LPG seems to make a lot of sense. Are there any serious downsides to it? There are several LPG stations around the typical routes I drive so no problem getting the stuff. I would have thought more companies (especially large fleets) would have gone down this route - partially if working in London!
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You've not specified what size of van, but apart from 44p as opposed to 95p per litre they make no economic sense for the manufacturer or the large fleet operator.
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I'm talking about Transit sized van SWB/MWB body.
I would have thought that 44/50p a litre and congestion charge exempt would make economical sense to a lot of people! I understand there are other tax advantages for the company vehicle owner, although not sure on this..
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If LPG took off to any great extent you can guarantee there would be some excuse found to increase the duty.
Edited by andyfr on 09/01/2009 at 11:45
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How many mpg does a 2.3 petrol/lpg hybrid transit do around town? I can't find figures, but probably not quite as many as a 2.0TDCi.
Congestion charge exemption may not last forever and those that do pay only pay it once for the day so if they are based in London the cost per customer served is small.
If it made economic sense the fleets would use them.
Edited by daveyjp on 09/01/2009 at 11:48
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I'll tell you why in my case.
Having shelled out £2,000 for a conversion, even though I researched the various conversion firms as throughly as I could, it turns out most of them have come straight from the set of Bonanza. I have seen a lot of John Wayne films but they never had as many cowboys in them as the LPG conversion industry.
When I got it up and running after 18 months of hassle, I then made sure the V5 was changed to show it was a dual fuel vehicle. This gained me the princely reduction of £15 a year off my road tax ( now reduced to £10 ).
Then Mr Brown decided that, having given away millions of pounds to people under a govt scheme to help fund conversions because LPG was green and clean ( powershift ? ), LPG was the devils urine and that he would start reducing the duty differential between petrol and LPG to bring their tax rates closer together.
Tesco then stepped up to the line and started buying out filling stations that sold LPG, converted them to those one shop thingies and removed the LPG pump at the same time.
At the same time. Ken Livingston announced that he would not allow any more newly converted LPG vehicles to take advantage of free use of the congestion charge zones as had been allowed in the formative years of the charge.
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As long as you have a decent fitter, or buy a van that has been properly converted, there is little risk in my opinion.
I converted my bmw 520 for 30k miles with absolutely no problems at all.
However, make sure your sums add up - running on lpg for me was a lot cheaper than running on diesel but the hassle/cost with:
Insurance (ie. usually a premium, quote available over the phone and not usually online),
VED (based on what the co2 figure is for running on petrol),
A little extra to service the lpg system (I paid £40 a year to the original fitter to give it a quick once over)
and the hassle on having to fill up twice as often meant that I sold it in the end, in favour of a diesel Touran.
I still miss it though! probably means my next car will be a 520d estate.
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I posted a question about the pros and cons of LPG prior to Christmas and the over-whelming reponse was not to bother for all sorts of reasons.
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Doing 18k pa, in a 30 mpg car, I was looking at a 2.5yr "break even" period to recoup the cost of the conversion. That assumed a 20% economy penalty on LPG, no specific LPG related maintenance or repair costs, and no interim hikes in LPG duty. And that's without the minefield of getting the car converted by someone who won't ruin it as they do so, or the fact that the LPG conversion investment wouldn't be paid out by an insurer if the car should be written off inside the 2.5 yrs.
If you don't do starship mileage, and/or have a teens to the gallon "gas guzzler", it's hard to make the maths work since the Powershift grant ran out of money.
Cheers
DP
Edited by DP on 09/01/2009 at 16:35
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Vans: Always a diesel alternative, so why bother?
Cars: Usually a diesel alternative which is a far better bet than a bodged conversion, limited fuel availability, reduced boot space and a diminishing tax advantage. Modern engine management systems are far too sophisticated to be bulldozed into petrol shutdown so that an alternative fuel can be introduced - on a largely hit and miss basis. An LPG conversion on a modern half-decent vehicle is, in my view an expensive way of causing trouble.
659.
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Friend had 2 Sprinters, with FACTORY duel fuel, for his transport business, pretty cost effective, he thought, as Merc would do the top 1/2 engine rebuilds free of chrge, every 70k, when all the valves burnt out.
& he saved a small fortune on his shopping, at Morrisons, as they gave him wads of 5p/ltr coupons, every fill up!!
VB
Edited by Vansboy on 09/01/2009 at 22:01
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I'm quite happy with my LPG Mondeo V6, it's currently costing me almost precisely 10p per mile to fuel it. :-)
I've had one problem which was caused by poor routing of an electricial cable which by good fortune happened almost on my installer's doorstep at the 1000 mile checkup, once it was repaired and correctly insulated I've had no problem at all.
I get about 20% less mpg on gas than I do on petrol and I have to be honest that at the moment, this is not helping the repayment period as gas is 45.9p and petrol is only 82.9p. However, on a positive note, I believe the price of oil is due to go up so I should start saving more money again shortly!
Would I do the conversion again? Possibly not on my old Mondeo, it's an 8 year old car and it really isn't worth a lot, I'm also starting to get bored of it, however, since getting it converted I have been able to drive anywhere that I want in my old tank without giving the running costs a second thought. In other words, for my £1,650 investment I now get a lot more enjoyment and use of my car than I otherwise would have so I suppose it was still worth it.
My next plan however is to get a large luxury car like a 540i or (if I put a lot more money in the bank) an Audi A8 4.2 and get that converted, I figure that a car like that will then last me for a good couple of years.
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