I live in a leafy avenue in Surrey. I saw the chap over the road today who told me that on Boxing Day night one of his sons, who sleeps at the front of the house, was woken at 2AM by a noise, looked out his window and saw two groups of men on their in/out driveway with the bonnets up on their Fiat Punto and Ford Escort. He shouted at them and they fled in cars parked further down the road.
He went outside and saw each car had a side window smashed, their bonnets up and engine parts in the process of removal.
They phoned the Police who came a rather spritely 45 minutes later to see what had happened. As they stood outside at 3AM two unlit cars full of men drove slowly up the road, past the house and away again. It was suggested they could just be the criminals, to which the Police replied there was no reason to assume that and they refused to give chase.
Two questions:
1. The deeper one is why do we have a Police force no longer interested in catching criminals?
2. The curious one os what were they nicking, I mean why remove things from under the bonnet of old cars?
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Say you have two choices, pay money, for example , for a starter motor or an alternator or simply nick one.?
In relation to your question number one, clearly those involved know what the reaction of your local plod would be so are prepared to carry out their motor part shopping by torchlight in the early hours.
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Everything makes sense apart from the stealing-from-an-old-escort bit. The engines were rubbish. Weird. Maybe someone will enlighten. A guess would be that they were after your neighbour's engines because they drive one too and theirs is knackered. Could be that (idiotically) stupid.
Also, is driving with your lights off at night something the police consider optional - and do I sound suitably indignant?
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Early days into the deepening recession, i imagine things will get a lot worse than this in the future crime wise.
Were they maybe trying to hot wire the cars and not just parts shopping?
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Early days into the deepening recession i imagine things will get a lot worse
Could we begin to see more domestic garages being used to garage cars instead of for storing junk?
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1, plain clothes police cars, so no need to race off and chase them, wouldn't necessarily tell the public so they notice what cars they're using?
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To be fair though Westpig, that's scraping the excuse barrell slightly,, I would damn well expect the Police to at least have a quiet word with them.
Everyone around here knows what the local Police use so I can't imagine it's particularly different elsewhere. We have Volvo S60 T5's, Ford Galaxys, and Focus 1.6 TDCI Studio models. Alll available in a variety of dull colours and all come with an obligatory NK registration prefix and no dealer markings. I immediately slow down as soon as I spot any car matching this description with this dreaded numberplate even though the majority tend not to be Police cars.
On a similar note, we've had a spate of car arsons round my way lately, the scrotes have been setting fire to the front numberplates of all things, this causes either serious cosmetic damage or, in the case of my friend's car, results in the whole thing going up!
They did 12 one night and about 12 a couple of nights later, all within a very small and confined geographical area in the heart of the city. Fortunately after just two sprees the Police have arrested 2 people and they are on bail. I can't imagine how they caught them as there was clearly no evidence left at the crime scene but I'm guessinng that they may have been caught in the act.
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Blue,
I expect the constables will have checked their list of known teeny arsonists and arrested whoever was at liberty at the time.
Perfectly reasonable policy as the type of crime you describe is unlikely to be carried out by first-time offenders.
Setting fires in the street is worrying - an ember could easily float away and set light to a nearby house.
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To be fair though Westpig that's scraping the excuse barrell slightly I would damn well expect the Police to at least have a quiet word with them.
Eh? If the plainclothes cars are cruising the surrounding streets to try to find the crims, why would the uniforms stop the plainclothes and have a word with them? Do you not think their actions would have already been coordinated by radio?
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What a rosey view of policing in the year 2008. Plain clothes cars operating through out the night, ready to deal out justice to those who creep about in the dark.
Reality is, the force in my area covers a tremendous patch, boarded by Lancs, Cheshire and GMP. I can assure you that there will be as few as two plain clothes vehicles operating most nights and less when arrests are made. A very big patch with very little cover.
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Who has that view? A crime was reported, trhey knew the people might still be in the area. A car, even if it was the only one in the area, was asked to have a cruise around the estate.
I'm glad I don't have a similarly grim opinion of such a wide range of subjects as some on here. Life must be almost unbearable.
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It does stretch credulity to assume that 2 unlit cars 'full of men' were (as some posters suggest) police of some kind. Would that many police usually attend an attempted theft 45mins after the event? If they were in fact 'undercover' prowl cars, I'm sure the 2 uniformed officers on scene with the victim would have made reference in some way to that - not been grimly discrete & unforthcoming about the excellent response the force had conjured up.
Maybe there were entirely human reasons behind their reluctance to stop & check the 2 unlit cars 'full of men' ?
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Interesting replies.
I don't think the coppers were expected to step out in the road and say "'ello 'ello what's going on 'ere then?" but they had no interest in alerting other units or doing anything else.
It is a fact that neither car had an alarm so they were easy targets. As my neighbour remarked though, the damage to the glass and cost of reassembling screws, filters etc under the bonnet must be more than the savings they hoped to make from the theft. He would sooner have given them the cash!
I fear we will see a whole lot more crime as this economic depression takes hold.
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Did the punto have the electric power steering? This goes wrong all the time and is £400 to replace so nicking one and selling it is quite lucrative. Puntos are often nicked to get the steering system out of them.
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It does stretch credulity
Of course, I was forgetting to apply the HJ forum version of Occam's Razor:
All things being equal, the theory which means our police are corrupt/inept/mechanisms of a shady governmental policy must be correct.
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>>All things being equal, the theory which means our police are corrupt/inept/mechanisms >>of a shady governmental policy must be correct.
No, it just means not assuming the most elaborate or exotic explanation, on the known or given facts - which is the perfect definition of Occam's Razor, backroom version or otherwise.
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"engine parts in the process of removal."
Which parts were interfered with?
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But your reason for believing that the theory the cars could have been police is 'exotic', is entirely based on a pre-conceived notion as to their corrupt, inept or simply non-existent nature in the first place - so it does come back to the HJ version.
From an unbiased viewpoint I see little reason for any assumption as to the identity of the cars occupants. The only evidence either way is that the known police who were present were happy to ignore them - which points (albeit circumstantially) to the opposite assumption to yours.
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as they were disturbed in the process and made off i very much doubt that even had these police officers stopped the car that passed by there would be any reason to detain them or do we not use evidence to determine guilt anymore?
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"as they were disturbed in the process and made off i very much doubt that even had these police officers stopped the car that passed by there would be any reason to detain them or do we not use evidence to determine guilt anymore?"
Sufficient grounds to stop, detain and search the vehicles and occupants for evidence in relation to the offence. (Sec 1 PACE 1984).
Having done that there may be evidence of other offences or 'Going Equipped'. If nothing else names and addresses for an intelligence submission which would link to ANPR and these individuals might turn up again.
These types of offenders are usually committing motoring and drugs offences as well.
Basic coppering.
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BazzaBear, please do not say I have implied that the police were corrupt,inept - I didn't.
If you care to read my post properly, I make the point that 2 cars full of undercover police officers (and 2 uniformed officers with the OP) being called out for a 'routine' attempted car break-in is highly unlikely (esp. given the time of year) & the uniformed officers' non-confirmation of this to the OP supports that.
My final point, of:
"Maybe there were entirely human reasons behind their reluctance to stop & check the 2 unlit cars 'full of men' ?"
Means simply that 2 officers might feel (that without back-up & not knowing what they night encounter) the odds stacked against them & that discretion would be the better part of valour. Who knows what they might have encountered? I wouldn't blame them one bit for hanging back if that were the case - and on the facts (from the OP) of that scenario, seem more likely.
Edited by woodbines on 31/12/2008 at 09:04
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BazzaBear please do not say I have implied that the police were corrupt inept - I didn't.
Sorry, I did not mean to imply either. The 'non-existent' bit referred to you. The corrupt and inept refers to the disturbing opinion of a vocal minority on here.
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Perhaps the son may have been better keeping quiet and dialling 999 to enable police to get there and maybe nick the thiefs. I reckon the police are so thin on the ground and so heavily wieghed down with paperwork catching a thief is a nightmare. They catch the guys, spend hours doing the paperwork and put them up to the beak who sentences them only for the sentence to be commuted. Magistrates are resigning and the police are getting brassed off.
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