"The M5 motorway in east Devon was closed in both directions after a Land Rover with a gas container caught fire.
The road was closed for an hour at junction 27, the Sampford Peverell turn-off, near Tiverton, after the incident at about 1130 GMT. 26 December 2008
Police said the motorway was closed for safety reasons because the vehicle was dual-fuelled, carrying petrol or diesel and liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) fuel."
I have not seen any other reports of other road closures for this reason.
Will this lead to LPG conversions having warning stickers re LPG?
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Usually LPG conversions already have warning stickers attached. However, if you mean the sticker should be clearly shown on the outside of the vehicle, such as for vehicles carry certain chemical substances, then clearly you raise a good point that is well worth serious consideration.
In reality the rescue services already presume volatile fuel in on-board a vehicle and they take the necessary precautions as a result, as they did in the incident you mention.
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'Police said the motorway was closed for safety reasons because the vehicle was dual-fuelled, carrying petrol or diesel and liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) fuel."'
Another blue light over reaction.
LPG is an alternative fuel to petrol. Only a few large diesel engined commercial HGV's use a type of LPG and diesel system so there was no chance of the Land Rover being a diesel / lpg conversion. Some times I wonder just what you need upstairs in order to wear the big hat.
As for carrying stickers, will that apply to caravans, one of the most popular LPG carrying vehicles on our roads. Yes, it's the same stuff . So can we expect road closures every time some one towing a caravan has an accident or breaks down ?
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When the current powershift wave of LPG was being publicised we were lectured about how in the event of a fire it was as safe as other fuels and how if it did get very hot, the gas would escape in a controlled manor. It seems to be the usual over-reaction and worst case scenario procedures being envoked instead of brains and common sense.
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You may remember some chaps loaded a jeep with lpg gas canisters from B&Q then drove it in to the arrivals lounge of Glasgow airport where the whole shooting match then went up in flames ?
Snip... Not motoring that contribution.
Edited by rtj70 on 29/12/2008 at 19:18
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You all don't know the situation, I've seen an "LPG" converted car with a calorgas bottles rolling around inside the boot. The fact that the LR is on fire gives clues that somethings amiss would'nt you say?
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I sometimes wonder if any of you have ever seen a gas cylinder explode due to heat from a fire?!
I think that you will find that if there any sort of pressured gas container (from oxygen to LPG or other sorts of gas) and a fire in the same vehicle it is automatic to close off the area until the fire has been put out and it is confirmed that the cylinders are at normal temperature and not likely to explode.
Personally I prefer it that way against the alternative of the thing going off as i drove past!
And no, I do not believe it is over-reaction by the fire brigade/police to close the road until they have ascertained that all is safe... but I do think it is over-reaction to accuse them of it, though!
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... And no, I do not believe it is over-reaction by the fire brigade/police to close the road
Of course not, this is in the world's top Elf & Safety country, par excellence, bar none, the champion of champions.
Anyone for conkers? or hanging baskets? or doormats?
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I don't think the chance of a gas cylinder exploding can be in any way compared at the same level as playing conkers, jb.... but perhaps you know better...
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... don't think the chance of a gas cylinder exploding can be in any way compared at the same level as playing conkers
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/3475431.stm
"A group of flower enthusiasts has been hit with a ban on some hanging baskets after fears they posed a public risk. "
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/1060708.stm
"Schools are banning time-honoured playtime pastimes such as conkers because headteachers are afraid of being sued by parents in the event of an accident. "
If that is the risk-averse society we live in, what do you expect when a gas cylinder is involved in a fire? Next they will order the evacuation of a whole town, district, county, or even the country - depending on how many gas cylinders there are and if they happen to be near a nuclear-power station.
p.s. If the same risk assessment standards as used on these gas cylinder incidents were applied to our oil, chemical and power industries, none of them would ever get a licence to operate in the UK.
Incidentally, the OP refers to a LPG cylinder. The shut-down of the M-way would have been for 24 hours if it has been an oxy-acet cylinder.
Edited by jbif on 29/12/2008 at 22:50
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Ever seen a petrol tank go up? gas cylinders have no vents so go bang rather well gas fuel tanks are fitted with a venting system so 'explosion' is rather more controlled.
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>>Ever seen a petrol tank go up?
No but I've heard one - I live 12 miles as the crow flies from Buncefield fuel depot and the bang woke me up. If an LPG cylinder in a car fire is a hazard, heaven knows what Buncefield was, but they only closed the M1 after the explosion ;-)
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As for carrying stickers will that apply to caravans one of the most popular LPG carrying vehicles on our roads.
It already does. Mine came with an LPG sticker from new, which was renewed at the last service because it was starting to peel.
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I have never seen a caravan with one in many thousands of miles of driving. If this is new then does that mean any accident involving a gas cylinder carrying caravan will result in full road closure from now on ?
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Gas cylinders don't explode, they flare off gas via the valve. So you end up with a flame coming out until all the gas has run out. It's probably a lot safer than petrol!
Edited by Hamsafar on 29/12/2008 at 19:30
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"I have never seen a caravan with one in many thousands of miles of driving."
Every caravan has one and has had for at least 15 years to my knowledge. I presume that even before that the emergency services would be aware that it would be very likely for a caravan/camper to be carrying LPG.
As for your second question - I don't know. Though I suspect that it is probablly not necessary since the caravans that crash are not usually on fire. They just disintegate into a million little bits with the only things surviving as "whole bits" being the chassis, wheels and ................the gas cylinders.
Happy caravanning!
Phil
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"Glasgow airport... the whole shooting match then went up in flames"
Sorry, but IIRC correctly it didn't explode leaving a crater where the terminal used to be, it only caught fire with much the same severity as a petrol-doused car would. There was some discussion (on BBC R4 I think) that LPG cylinders used in this way would never explode in the way the perpetrators had planned (or in the cars left in London the day before) because the rate of release of propellant and the fuel/oxygen ratio were all wrong.
Relevant to this topic, I think.
Edited by Dave_TD {P} on 29/12/2008 at 21:15
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Yes, and the Airport terror jeep caught fire because the berks doused themselves in PETROL, not LPG! :)
This thread has made me realise just how safe LPG is compared to petrol.
Edited by Hamsafar on 29/12/2008 at 21:32
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how about this stuff then?
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6694385.stm
the tanks have to be left for 24 hours to cool if affected by fire apparently
Edited by zookeeper on 29/12/2008 at 21:35
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A couple of years ago, there was a loud `BOOM` while we were sitting in the lounge, rattling the house internal doors. All the neighbours came out to see what it was and a pall of smoke was seen rising upwards half a mile away.
A gas cylinder had been in a shed when it caught fire - the shed being demolished and parts of it blown across the street.
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