|
Same thing being reported in South Wales' papers this evening.
|
Altea Ego, you've made the news. Apparently the South Wales newspapers reported on this ;-)
Couldn't resist... but tawse did reply to AE.
|
|
|
|
|
Please explain the ' angry " reference. I have voiced a calm considered opinion about a current motoring news story. I have used no emotional or over the top language .
|
Please explain the ' angry " reference. I have voiced a calm considered opinion about a current motoring news story. I have used no emotional or over the top language
Yes sorry about that on reflection it was unfair, its just that it sounded better than "dear Mr Paranoid"
I apologise for calling you Mr Angry.
|
AE, I too am paranoid, along with many other HGV drivers on this forum.
Foreign drivers are continually NOT pursued in this country for any offence whatsoever, yet when we venture into the EU, their rules are enforced upon us stringently and a refusal to pay just results in the amount b,eing asked for rising by the minute.
The never ending amount od accidents involving EU registered lorries surely demands that this situation is addressed as the OP expects, and rightly so.
We have the case linked to above, and also another case, of an EU Lorry Driver being fined for attacking a VOSA official who wanted to check his documants, highlighted on our forums today.
At last it seems something is being done and word will travel fast as the EU's cannot afford the fines or detention periods.
Surely it's time that something was done about the OP's concerns and some action taken to show the EU drivers that they have to comply to our speed limits, as do we, to the rules and laws of our roads?
Pat
|
|
Altea and MrX - I think I can see the smile on Altea's face from here, he (she?) has a history of winding up other contributors!
|
|
|
PDA
we have a pretty good record of throwing Foreign HGV drivers into jail. There was one this very day.
What you should be asking of course, is why we have so many foreign truckers here in the first place. Its the price of diesel of course.
|
|
|
|
|
Please explain the ' angry " reference.
Mr X, by the sounds of it you've never heard of a character called "Mr Angry from Purley" that was on the Steve Wright in the Afternoon radio show in the 80's?
The 'character' would often phone in complaining about something or other.
I'm sure that AE isn't personally attacking you, more of a leg pull than anything else. In other words its just a bit of friendly forum banter that shouldn't be taken seriously.
DD.
(:edit: which woodster has also pointed out, re my last sentence)
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 22/12/2008 at 21:04
|
|
|
|
"To make things more balanced, and to ease your anger, in October I sped in France, Italy and Switzerland."
Sped/parked willy-nilly and been caught by Polish Police, cameras and traffic wardens for nigh on five years. Never been traced, never received any paperwork, just smile, shake their hands, act dumb and file it all in the bin. Last thing I want is a "joined-up data base".
|
Foreign drivers are not being let off, they simply cannot be identified on account of the processes in place. The same applies to a car with no number plates or those which are too dirty to read.
As such, they are not being let off because they are foreign.
|
In the case of foreign lorry drivers Stu, they are being let off simply because it is too expensive and time consuming to trace and follow them up.
They know this very well and take full advantage of it at every opportunity.
The tide is beginning to change as AE states and it certainly is most welcome as far as we're concerned, to try and level the playing field a bit for us all.
Pat
|
The nationality of the driver still has nothing to do with this. If I stick Polish plates on my car for instance I would be difficult to trace. However if a Polish driver drives a British registered car, they are traceable in the usual way.
As such, it has very little to do with the driver or their nationality, simply with the origins of the car/lorry and what contry it is registered in. Its just an indirect dig at foreigners and the OP well knows it.
|
Actually they are being let off. VOSA do roadside checks, they check xx amounts of trucks, they find a certain amount of foreign trucks with drivers that exceeded the driving hours regulations or have vehicles unfit for the road. If it was a British truck with a British driver they would be prosecuted, the company would also likely be prosecuted, a file would be sent to the Traffic Commissioner and he/she would then most likely revoke the drivers licence and quite possibly revoke the operators licence as well.
Now Mr Foreign driver gets parked up for 11 or 24 hours depending on how much rest he is short, and then allowed on his merry way. If he has a problem with the truck then he is allowed to get it fixed and then allowed on his way. The British truck would be issued a PG9 and then will have to get the truck re-mot'd at great expense.
So the foreign drivers are let off. I am not saying our drivers should be, far from it, but the foreign drivers should face the same penalties as the rest - after all, that is why we have Operators Licensing, to make a level playing field so no one can get ahead by taking short cuts on maintenance or working drivers in excess of their hours.
|
|
Foreign crivers will always be let off. The british can't be bothered to try to communicate with anyone speaking a foreign language. And we call the Americans insular..... pu-lease! ;-)
|
tinyurl.com/7g7u4x
I think this case is all the proof we need.
This particular camera is just a couple of miles from my home, but in the middle of the Fen and certainly not in a built up area.
When it was first put in place a few years ago it caught me, in my lorry at 03.25 doing 51MPH.
I hadn't seen another vehicle for the last 20 minutes but it still cost me £60 and 3 points.
The road is a NSL road but the camera is 'loaded' to detect HGV's and operate at over 40MPH for us.
Ignorance of the law is no defence.
The lorry driver's Transport Manager has a duty to make sure his driver is aware of the speed limit of the vehicle he is driving.
He has a duty to ensure his drivers are not breaking any law.
None of this has been done and the Magistrate in this case, has caused an uproar locally with his decision.
If this had been an English lorry driver, VOSA would have been knocking on the door of his Employer the very next day asking to see tachograph charts for all their drivers and maintenence schedules for every vehicle the firm operated. A major investigation would have been instigated immediately into the operating procedures for that firm.
We deliver scrap tyres to this Firm and as far as I know there have been no repercussions yet, at all.
The Fens may be flat, but the playing field isn't.
Yet in the first 3 months of next year we will all have to fight for survival.
Pat
|
|
The trouble with this cross border co operation is that the points systems in different countries are totally different. In Italy for example they start with 21 points and lose points for various offences. Unless all points systems are lined up then the best they will be able to do is fine people the money (which probably suits them just fine!).
|
|
Good points, but let's not forget the British drivers who escape prosecution in the rest of Europe.
|
irt Chris S,
And they are who exactly? AE may well have gone across various European countries in excess of the limits and not got caught. But those who do get caught do not get let off. Most other European countries have on the spot fines etc.
Some countries like France will just imprison drivers if they feel like it. They do not get the chance to make a phone call home to tell their families what has happened.It can be days or even weeks of them missing before anyone knows where they are.
|
AE may well have gone across various European countries in excess of the limits and not got caught. But those who do get caught do not get let off. Most other European countries have on the spot fines etc.
So, do you want the UK to adopt a wide range of on-the-spot-fines for everything? If that happens, it'll apply to you and me as well as to non-residents
|
It's already going to happen NowWheels, very soon VOSA are getting more powers to tackle the problem. I am not certain of the in's and out's of it, but I believe the Police may get the same powers, which from the VOSA officers I have spoken to they are not too happy about. They don't want to have to take money as this is open to abuse by both the person being fined (saying they had more taken then they actually did) and by the enforcers of the fines (possibly!!).
Do I think it's a good idea? Yep, I am happy with it, it's not ideal but it is a start in the right direction.
|
Some countries like France will just imprison drivers if they feel like it. They do not get the chance to make a phone call home to tell their families what has happened.It can be days or even weeks of them missing before anyone knows where they are.
What a load of bull. People might "disappear" in countries like Georgia and Russia, but even then not for motoring offences. It certainly doesn't happen in France. Can I guess you a Daily Wail reader who thinks everywhere south of Dover is full of fuzzy wuzzies?
|
|
>The road is a NSL road but the camera is 'loaded' to detect HGV's and operate at over >40MPH for us.
how do you "load" a camera for HGVs only?
|
So many speed cameras now on single carriageway roads are triggered by weight and height to go off at 40MPH when an HGV passes them.
A classic example is the A556 just west of J19 on the M6.
It appears to be a dual carriageway as it has 4 lanes, but as it has no central reservation the speed limit for lorries on that stretch is just 40 MPH and both of the cameras are set to go off at 40mph when HGV's pass them, as many lorry drivers will testify!
Pat
|
So many speed cameras now on single carriageway roads are triggered by weight and height to go off at 40MPH when an HGV passes them.
you sure? Are you saying that there are speed cameras just for lorries? What system is used to measure the height, weight and speed?
|
you sure? Are you saying that there are speed cameras just for lorries?
Oh yes Pat is right, A420 Oxford to Swindon similar, go past one of those cameras at more than 40 in an HGV and you risk a nick, colleague of mine was done for 46mph there, and that was before it became a blanket 50mph limit for all.
I don't know how its done, but cameras have been truck sensitive for at least 10 years, the first one i know of was at Elton nr Peterborough, at the bottom of a hill Elton by pass.
|
If your talking about the A605 , at the elton turnoff it had a bag over it yesterday!
|
If your talking about the A605 at the elton turnoff it had a bag over it yesterday!
Thats the one, i wonder if the A605 phantom executioner is still in business?
Clever stuff in a way i don't think coaches trigger them at truck speeds, hopefully a bus/coach driver will let us know, but how does it know the difference between a 2 axle coach weighing 12 tons and a 12 ton truck?
Edited by rtj70 on 24/12/2008 at 18:36
|
Clever stuff in a way i don't think coaches trigger them at truck speeds hopefully a bus/coach driver will let us know but how does it know the difference between a 2 axle coach weighing 12 tons and a 12 ton truck?
yes thats why I am doubtful your ordinary stupid film laden gatso has that capability. I would have thought that only checking each speed against anpr would do the job.
|
I am doubtful your ordinary stupid film laden gatso has that capability.I would have thought that only checking each speed against anpr would do the job.
It wouldn't have the time surely, i had a nervous few weeks some years ago when cruising into Oxford from Witney on the A40, in the flow of traffic i didn't really think, but the camera flashed me and no one else, didn't hear anything so probably ran out of film..phew.
hopefully we'll hear from someone who knows the technicalities.
|
Now I'm intrigued and learning more by the day here!
I posted a link to a court case earlier in this thread. It has caused uproar locally and also on all lorry driving forums.
But on here no-one has commented on it.
At times the Back Room is hard to understand!
Pat
|
Pat do you ever sleep or did you wake at your normal get up for work time?
I didn't comment on the case as it might cause comments about Jingoism and the like, as we may have a vested interest.
Nearly didn't make Christmas by the way, came close to being stuffed through the armco at B'ham airport by a french regd left hooker (area 37 so former eastern bloc as you'd expect), if they can't see a car carrier, no hope for a car or van tucked away in the alleged blind spot, don't need a fresnel lens to see a full size white cabbed truck alongside.
It was only the generous application of loud hooter that prevented the connection...again...
The case you link to hardly surprises me though.
|
Wasn't going to mention this as it seems petty, but I changed my mind.
I nearly got wiped a few weeks ago under similar circumstances to those mentioned by gb. The difference was it was on the A8 autobahn between Stuttgart and Munich, I was in my company car with Xenons ablaze and the culprit was a right hand drive british registered artic.
I also wondered how he could avoid seeing a rapidly approaching car with xenon lights, or whether he'd decided to wait until he could see the whites of my eyes before pulling into the outside lane just metres in front of me without indicating first. Fortunately BMWs are fitted with very good brakes and I avoided going into the back of him. Not the first incident I've seen/ heard of in Germany involving RHD trucks.
|
Just over five years ago, I was on the M56 in Cheshire. I slowed down and stopped because there was a traffic jam. I had the handbrake on.
My car was hit so hard from behind that it was spun around. The driver who hit me was from the USA. I think that he was so jet-lagged that he had fallen asleep.
Cheshire Police made it very clear that they were not in the slightest bit interested in pursuing any action against him.
|
Normal get up for work time is 1.30am to 3am so anything after 4am is a lie in GB:)
But I think I'm lucky because all the nice people are early birds and I get to see the dawn break almost every morning!
Pat
|
|
|
|
|
