£3,500 will get you a 3yo Almera 1.8SE automatic. NCAP ratings up there with a Focus, and although it's not as good to drive as a Focus it's not bad. Very reliable, and cheap parts if you are unlucky enough to have something to wrong.
It's a little bigger than the Polo, but with bleepers at the back and an auto gearbox, it's not hard to park, and automatic is nice in city traffic. Highly untrendy, so not interesting to car thieves.
You'll probably pay quite a bit more to get a similar-aged supermini in decent nick.
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I'd second that, NW, and should have added it to the Fabia and Corolla above. Almeras were deeply unfashionable when new - which of course doesn't make them bad cars.
Slightly paradoxically, an unfashionable car is likely to be an excellent second-hand buy, as my hunch is (I've no statistics to prove this) that the sort of person who buys an unfashionable car is probably a gentle driver who looks after - even cherishes - the car and changes it after a few years for another of the same make.
People like that kept Rover going for years, and may well buy Nissans now in the patriotic knowledge that they were built in Britain.
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I'd second that NW and should have added it to the Fabia and Corolla above. Almeras were deeply unfashionable when new - which of course doesn't make them bad cars.
Fabia and Corolla are both v good cars, but a lot more expensive than an Almera. For someone doing low mileage in city streets, I doubt that the handling qualities make much difference, and I can't see any point in paying the premium.
But it really depends on whether LondonBus and spouse can cope with a bigger car than they are used to. If a compact size is critical, then it may be worth paying the extra for the very compact Yaris Mk 1(the new ones are bigger).
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The size is more for her - than for me. (oo-er).
thanks for the tips guys 'n' gals.
£5k would yield a good Almera (oxymoron?) from Car Giant; however on the principle I want the moon on a stick (for free) I note that that Almera isn't as good as the Tino on the Euro-NCap rating.
I'd be very happy with the Almera as a run-around; need to test this with Dr Plymouth-Kingston (kept her maiden name - or she'd be Dr LondonBus) if it would work.
Anyone want to buy a mechanically dodgy Polo? Only two slightly nutty owners?!
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As longs as it has a working clutch yes! :D I am a little bit too far away from the good old home of Routmasters though. Your Polo might not be as bad as you think it is, stuck it on ebay you would be surprised what you get for it.
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£5k would yield a good Almera (oxymoron?) from Car Giant;
You'll get change out of £5k, but don't get a 1.5. Not such a good engine at the 1.8 is what I was told.
That'll get you one in good condition, with long life left in it. Whether good is an oxymoron wrt an Almera depends on how much you fancy soft plastics in the interior, or the finer points of handling; try one and see what you think.
however on the principle I want the moon on a stick (for free) I note that that Almera isn't as good as the Tino on the Euro-NCap rating.
Looks nearly the same to me: 4-star passengers, 2-star for pedestrians, but the hatch scores slightly lower for front impacts.
See www.euroncap.com/tests/nissan_almera_tino_2001/82....x and www.euroncap.com/tests/nissan_almera_2001/86.aspx
Still much better than your old Polo, and probably as good as a higher-rated smaller car
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I appreciate the plain vanilla Almera probably isn't too good with handling; reviews incl HJ's indicate the Tino is much better.
Our 2nd car sadly is an appliance much like a washing machine. If I had the cash I'd buy an MX-5 Roadster Coupe.
Interestingly most the 1.8 Almeras in the price range seem to have auto transmission. I've driven automatics. Well - I've driven buses with auto tranmission - rather than cars.
Presumably the usual apply with autos - weaker fuel consumption, higher CO2 ratings? And a requirement to make sure that the ATF is changed regularly?
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"a requirement to make sure that the ATF is changed regularly? "
Not that often. Quite possibly not for as long as you own the car, in fact.
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Presumably the usual apply with autos - weaker fuel consumption higher CO2 ratings?
Not significantly. 36.2mpg for the auto against 37.2 for the manual, and only an extra 4g/km of CO2 (see www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=62&se...e )
However, I see that you have ruled out an Almera-sized car in any case, so not really relevant.
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Avant - would like to strongly endorse your point re secondhand v new.
Best value MPV on the market? Almera Tino. Depreciates like stink. Best bought @3 years.
(hint hint HJ!)
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Buy a Getz! I bought an 11month old one with 3k on the clock this summer - 1.4GSi 5 door - for £5995 and the dealer threw in 6 months tax and a free service. It still has 4 years warranty left and drives like a new one. With the i20 - Getz replacement - on its way you should get a better deal than that. Lots of older Hyundais knocking about so longevity should'nt be an issue.
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Dr Plymouth-Kingston says "no" to an Almera. She wants a Polo sized vehicle. Getz back on the agenda. Also what are peoples' views on a Fiesta?
I'm well aware with the launch of the i20 the residuals on the Getz should be even more awful - making them better for me (buy a 3 year old one and run it until gets expensive...)
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Dr Plymouth-Kingston says "no" to an Almera. She wants a Polo sized vehicle.
Fair enough. She might find it informative to try an Almera and a Fiesta; recent Fiestas aren't that much smaller.
Also what are peoples' views on a Fiesta?
If you are going for one of the 2002-onwards models, you'll find that they are bigger than her dying Polo. I reckon that used Fiestas tend to be overpriced (too popular), so I'd be reluctant to buy one.
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Interesting thread as we are looking in the same price band at the moment to replace a £500 car... albeit with no size restriction. As has been mentioned above it seems the economic climate has just about leveled out the prices such that broadly speaking we could buy a similar year/spec Citroen C3, Focus, Mondeo or even X-Type Jaguar for about the same money.
I know we all have our own favourites but I've always been happy with Citroens and like the C3 in the size you want. One of the online car supermarkets has a Oct'05 1.4 SX model with just 19k recorded for £3800. Almost a years MOT and all the kit like ABS, Aircon, CD, 4 airbags etc. It is immaculate inside/out and has that later interior trim in a more sensible darker colour (the early ones were mostly a most impractical very light grey).
David
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"Dr Plymouth-Kingston says "no" to an Almera. She wants a Polo sized vehicle."
The difference is 20 cm in length and 5 cm in width. That length difference could improve the ride and passenger comfort for a longer journey, but it's hard to see how it makes a big difference on the streets of N London?
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I did point this out, but she's not budging....
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One thing I learnt on my recent car buying trips with my misses is dont question their logic on car size! The actual dimensions dont matter so much as the perception of them.
With the Picanto versus i10, there was no difference in width but my misses was much happier in tight situations in the i10 because it had higher seating pos and better visability. Even more strange, the wider Sirion she has now, she still feels that this is narrower than the Picanto, one would presume down to better visability and high seat position again.
Might be worth trying your misses in a slightly larger car with higher seat position - just a thought.
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With the Picanto versus i10 there was no difference in width but my misses was much happier in tight situations in the i10 because it had higher seating pos and better visability.
She's probably onto something there. Women are, on average, a few inches shorter than men, and that has a bad effect on visibility when parking, which makes a car harder to park because the uncertainty over where the corners are makes it feel bigger.
That's probably relevant in Mrs Londonbus's case, because the Almera has poor visibility -- although not much worse than the 1990s Polo, which I found hard to position because like the Almera it has huge pillars at the back and a rear window the size of a postage stamp.
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To be sexist, I have to admit I *park like a girl*.
(hides from the women reading this....)
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My perception on Citreons is that they have poor reliability. Am I mistaken?
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Yes some will maintain that perception but in reality cars have evened out a lot over the makes since the old days.
Look in the car-by-car breakdown on this site and you will find grim reading on many makes that have historically been "reliable motors" when talked of down the pub. I would not expect a C3 to be any worse than your Polo and it comes out quite well on HJs guide.
My uncle has run a C3 Hdi from new for the past 6yrs with nothing other than a couple of free dealer recalls on top of routine services. He's just bought a new one after that excellent record.
David
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I get particulalry interested in the faults appearing for cars aged 3 - 11 years (makes them sound like kids, doesn't it?).
Problems with the Polo's box would have shown earlier had we done more miles.
The C3 seems a horror story on the car-by-car breakdown and discussion. Probably very unfair?
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Not unfair if its true. Obviously it has happened on some cars, whether it would on a car you buy, theres a chance, but it may not and you may great a great service from one.
You have to weigh up whether you feel the risks are worth it.
My dad had Citroen XMs which were apparently unreliable yet he did big miles in two different models and had no issues whatsoever. He took his round europe.
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>>>The C3 seems a horror story on the car-by-car breakdown and discussion. Probably very unfair?
You need to read the CBC breakdows carefully and read between the lines plus consider the source of info.
If you thought everything in there would happen to your own car you'd never buy a Toyota Yaris because of problems with suspension bushes, rust, diesel head gaskets, petrol engine oil consumption etc tec... likewise Honda Jazz owners are threatened with high service costs, transmission failure, aircon failure, steering problem, egr failure and water leaks.
As it happens 8 of the 9 comments on the C3 in "what to look out for" refer to the diesel and the 9th are anecdotal comments from one owner. The car I mentioned was a 1.4 petrol so actually it seems they are virtually fault free according to HJ, more so than the above Japanese cars. And to be honest I wouldn't worry about the diesels either if they were otherwise what you needed.
However if you have niggling doubts over the reliability of any make I would not buy that car because you'll only be waiting for the day you'll say " I shouldn't have been persuaded to buy this lemon.
There are cars I would risk buying against advice and other very popular cars I wouldn't have on the drive... it's a very personal thing this car buying business.
David
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There is an element of stuff going with age. Our Polo has most of the faults on the CBC during its life; whats killing it now is the transmission fault that is too expensive to fix.
My views on French cars are based on anecdotes. However, as I'm looking to run vehicle of 3-11 years reliability is a big issue for me; I don't have the luxury of a brand new car with manufacturers warranty.
Car buying is personal; compare this with buying a washing machine. I mean look at the washer help site - its a very different experience!
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what a delightful and informative thread.
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The latest development...
So I said to my wife (this could turn into a Les Dawson routine) that I'd posted my question on a "motoring bulletin board" and got two suggestions apart from the Getz. The C3 and um.
She asked me what the other suggestion was - I said the Almera (and ducked for cover).
Pointed out that the very small cars are the same price as slightly bigger ones (not much difference between say a Fiesta and a Focus - and you get more choice of 5 door Focuses).
Other half wants to pay hardly any money - so I pointed out that you get a perfectly good Almera for say £3.7k - £4k (3 years old. FSH. 1.8SE or SVE, auto box).
She's now agreed to go and test drive an Almera. We'll do this for the New Year.
The Polo meanwhile isn't making noises, but I've just had a frustrating half hour trying to top up the gear oil. I need a big wrench to get the box 'filler off. My set of Laser drain plug keys won't get me far because of the torque required. And preferably ramps. I don't normally do maintenance beyond checking fluid levels. So am not equipped to do the box
I doubt if the gear oil levels have ever been checked.
Looking underneath there's a quite a lot oil on the box - not surprising for age but I do wonder what the box levels are... So want the box topped up - I have visions of it seizing in the next few weeks...
The car is going to have go up the road to the local indy to top the gear oil. It needs someone with the right tools for the job - which I don't have. I hate modern cars. In 1991-93 I had a 1972 Renault 5 with a dash gearchange. The box was really easy to get to. The Polo has the box under the engine and is packaged in a way which is a total nightmare to get to...
Edited by LondonBus on 14/12/2008 at 16:02
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She's now agreed to go and test drive an Almera. We'll do this for the New Year.
It'll be interesting to hear what she makes of it. Apart from the poor visibility I have found it a very woman-friendly car, once you get your head around the electronic control system (which is actually very good and very simple to use once you understand that you need to push the radio knob to put it in radio mode and the heater/ventilator button to put it in heater/ventilator mode)
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The fun will be comparing an Almera with the Tino. The Tino/Almera range had a mid-life face lift in 2003 and our Tino is pre-facelift. An Almera would be post-facelift.
The other fun thing will be auto transmission. I'm going to push for us to have a 1.8 as per discussions here (the 1.5 apparently has problems with its chain cam - oil starvation). Most 1.8s are auto. Bearing in mind the around-town use of the car, auto makes sense.
My other half has never driven an auto car before...
At this range we could become a two-Almera (Tino) household. The world's least loved cars...
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My other half has never driven an auto car before...
It's very easy to adapt to an auto.
The only tricky bit is that it's best to follow HJ's advice and learn how to left-foot brake whilst manoeuvring in parking spaces etc: see www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=15
Feels weird at first, but after a few tries it becomes second-nature
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