I'm looking to buy a used car for a friend who needs wheels, and the requirements point to a secondhand repmobile. Need a mile-mucher (25k-40kmiles pa) with a big covered boot (so not an estate), enough power to cope with fast A-roads as well as mways, and reasonable comfort (seats and noise and driving position, not electric toys). Must be cheap to run and reliable for long-term use, because this car will be used for unmissable appointments a long way from home (niggles aren't critical, but car-won't-go would be an expensive disaster).
A saloon would be marinally preferable to a hatchback, but they are rare on the UK market, so it'll likely be a hatchback. In Focus-sized cars hatchbacks are shorter than saloons and thus have a smaller boot, but in the next size bracket (Mondeo), that seems not to be a problem, so the disadvantages of the hatch are minor.
The options appear to be Mondeo, Vectra or Avensis, but the Avensis holds its value too well, so it's Mondeo or Vectra. Of the two, my impression from the reviews is that there's not much to choose between them either in driving quality or price, but that the Mondeo is a slightly better drive and slightly more reliable.
The ideal purchase would be youngish car which has been run in without clocking up massive mileage, and after burrowing around I find that the best deals on offer are on 07 reg Mondeo IIIs at Motorpoint. They have a choice of 1.8LXs at £5,999 or 2.0TDCI 130s at £6999, all with mileage in the low teens; both seem like real bargains (save £10k for a car which someone else has run in, but still has plenty of warranty left). The deals on Vectras don't look quite as good, and since the Mondeo seems to be a slightly better car, no reason to choose the Vectra.
So far as I can see, the 2.0 petrol offers more power with only slightly more thirst than the 1.8, so would be a better buy, but I can't find 2.0 petrols at a resaonable price. Similarly, the 115PS TDCI is slightly less thirsty than the 130PS TDCI, but I can't find and TDCI 115s at a sensible price.
So it's a choice between the 1.8 petrol or the 2.0 TDCI 130. My guess is that the TDCI will be a much nicer drive, with a litle more noise but a heck of a lot more useable power. There is little to choose between them in fuel cost: on current prices, my spreadsheet says that 30k miles in the diesel will cost £3,093, compared with £3314 in the petrol. That's barely £200 a year, but enough to pay for an extended warranty on the diesel once the manufacturers warranty runs out in 18 months time.
So the choice between the two come down to a trade-off between reliability and driveability. HJ's car-by-car breakdown at www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=119 lists a long catalogue of problems with the diesel (injectors, DMF, DPF, which may not be all that common but could be expensive disasters if they happened while the car was in use for business. OTOH, it seems that the extra torque of the diesel will make it a much nicer drive.
Any suggestions on how to approach the choice?
Edited by Pugugly on 10/01/2009 at 22:02
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If you want reliable, it's got to be the petrol
MVP
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In my experience, given two identical diesel engines in slightly different states of tune, there is usually little noticeable difference in fuel economy between the two, at least in daily driving. The higher powered versions are usually easier to sell on too, so of the two diesels, I would go for the 130. They're great to drive too.
The reliability reputation of the TDCi needs to be put into context of how many of these things were sold, and the kind of mileages they rack up. I went an auction a few months ago where dozens of three year old Mondeo TDCi's (and other CR diesels) came through from the big lease companies with 100-130,000 miles on the clock at the end of their terms and still apparently running fine. I believe injector coding can be done outside the main dealer network nowadays, and DMFs are now common to many types of car. DPFs tend to be better suited to higher annual mileages like your friend will be doing, as the exhaust gets hot enough for long enough to allow the regeneration to occur when needed. Most DPF problems occur on cars which don't stray out of town, or which use the EOLYS additive system instead of periodic regeneration. Neither will be an issue in this case.
My gut feeling would be to go for a 130 diesel, and if you can cover yourself with an 18 month warranty after 3 yrs, so much the better. The odds are quite heavily in favour of a troublefree ownership experience though.
Cheers
DP
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My own experience of a new 2006 Mondeo TDCI was very poor and led me to sell the car whilst it was still within its warranty period. The ability of Ford dealers to accurately diagnose and 'fix first time' is questionable to say the least.
When I complained about how unreliable the car was, the comment I got from the service manager was, 'well its a diesel isn't it'. They seemed to have a lot of diesels in for repair when mine was there. I know that there are a lot of these cars around with substantial mileages, but I do wonder how many repairs they have undergone.
I subsequently changed to a Subaru (petrol) and the difference in reliability is night and day. I don't even think about the Subaru letting me down.
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Conversely, I have had 3 Mondeo lll diesels and done huge mileages in all of them without one single fault. Not a rattle or a squeak...nothing. Latest one is well over 150k with every non-consumable part original. All it has ever had is normal servicing and even that was done at an independent as opposed to a dealership. The others were run to similarly high miles. Brilliant cars. Best I've ever had for reliability. Would not hesitate to recommend them.
Got to speak as you find I guess.
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Thanks for this thoughtful reply, DP.
The reliability reputation of the TDCi needs to be put into context of how many of these things were sold and the kind of mileages they rack up.
[snip]The odds are quite heavily in favour of a troublefree ownership experience though.
That's one of the issues that concerns me: there are lots of anecdotal reports, such as those which HJ so usefully collects, but it doesn't seem to be easy to get hold of any data on what the actual incidence is of reliability problems with the diesels. The only thing I can find that even comes close to statistical data is from reliability index at www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/search_results.html?apc...1 ... but that doesn't distinguish between petrols and diesels.
The data also tends to focus on the average cost of repairs, which is what matters to a warranty provider. However, for the driver relying on the car and whose repairs for a breakdown are covered by warranty, the actual cost of the breakdown isn't an issue; what matters is the incidence of failure, and hence of the car being unavailable for use. So it's better to have a car with an occasional risk of catastrophic failure than one which never collapses entirely but has a higher risk of less expensive failure.
Edited by Pugugly on 10/01/2009 at 22:01
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I wouldn't be so quick to write the Vectra off when 08 plate 1.8 SRI or Life hatches are available with low miles for between £6k-£7k if you look hard enough.
Not much to go wrong and still a full two and a bit years of warranty left.
Most people seem to rate the 1.8 highly in terms of economy too, although performance is nothing special.
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I wouldn't be so quick to write the Vectra off when 08 plate 1.8 SRI or Life hatches are available with low miles for between £6k-£7k if you look hard enough. Not much to go wrong and still a full two and a bit years of warranty left.
Thanks for the suggestion. I did indeed see some of them, but I'm not so sure what the 1.8 Vectra Life would offer the 1.8 Mondeo LX. (The SRi is out, because of its lowered suspension and alloy wheels)
The only advantage I can see is that there are 08-plate Vectras available for a few hundred more than similar-mileage 07-plate Mondeos. That gives a little more manufacturers warranty, but the extra cost looks like more than that of an aftermarket warranty.
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1.8 Vectra Life would offer the 1.8 Mondeo LX. (The SRi is out, because of its lowered suspension and alloy wheels)
Look up the Vectra 2.2 direct petrol model. AFAICS, HJ's car by car does not appear to include the 2.2 direct petrol model which has a rating of 180g/km CO2 [which indicates that it has good mpg figures].
Edited by jbif on 09/12/2008 at 15:28
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Shouldn't your friend be considering public transport in these climate-challenged times?
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Shouldn't your friend be considering public transport in these climate-challenged times?
Surely you're joking right?
"Need a mile-mucher (25k-40kmiles pa) with a big covered boot (so not an estate)"
Somehow I can't imagine anyone covering 40,000 miles a year on the bus carrying around the kind of stuff that could fill a Mondeos boot!! :)
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Me neither, but it's what we're always being told.
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Shouldn't your friend be considering public transport in these climate-challenged times?
Has done so, would actually prefer it if possible. This car is for someone who dislikes both cars and driving.
This friend has been doing the same sort of work for a long time, and used to travel by train. It worked well, with time to relax on the journey and hotels near the station for accommodation, but that was before Dr Beeching's axe had its full effect. Now lots of places are not on the railway network, and those which do have station are unlikely to still have railway hotels, plus flexible fares have become horribly expensive.
The result is that this musician has to drive long distances in increasingly congested roads to get to gigs, because the railways have been wrecked for this sort of usage. Even where the routes still exist, the greatly reduced luggage space on the new trains and lack of guards vans or porters makes it near impossible to carry much clobber.
This is a stupid state of affairs, but it's beyond the control of the individual. Unlike the commuter, there is no option of moving closer to the workplace, and unlike a lot of business meetings, video-conferencing can't replace a live performance.
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unlike a lot of business meetings video-conferencing can't replace a live performance.
Well, let's reserve judgement until we've heard your friend play, eh? ;-)
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Good point jbif. I am in severe danger of labouring this point and for that I apologise, but we run a wee business and there are two cars on the working fleetette. One is a 2.0 diesel Mondeo and the other is a 2.2 petrol Signum. Trust me when I tell you as it is monitored closely, the fuel costs are the same. Identical to the penny.
I drive both cars and between them they notch up a very high annual mileage. On balance if really pressed I would say I prefer the Mondeo but that is more to do with the seats suiting me better than the VX ones than anything else. The Signum is a good car. In my opinion the Mondeo is slightly better. Cost-wise they work out very similarly. Insurance costs are the same. The Mondeo needs a service more often, 12.5k intervals against 20k. Tyres are the same price. VED is cheaper on the Mondeo at £140 against £220 on the VX I think. Being a "proper" estate, my Mondeo holds more stuff than the Signum but the Vauxhall has these very clever fold flat seats. The Signum has the nicer, smoother engine but the diesel is a very lazy, easy to drive mile-muncher.
To be frank, they are both good for someone who needs /wants this category of car.
I don't think your friend would feel short changed by either.
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I wrote above:
Thanks for the suggestion. I did indeed see some of them, but I'm not so sure what the 1.8 Vectra Life would offer [over] the 1.8 Mondeo LX. (The SRi is out, because of its lowered suspension and alloy wheels)
Thanks to Jbif and Humph for also suggesting the 2.2 Vectra: it looks like a good option if one can be found at the right price, but they are rare, and a lot of them seem to be the SRi variant with lowered suspension and other such silliness. However, when doing the checking I saw that the Vectra 1.8 was upgraded a few years back to a VVTi engine with 140PS, which is closer to the 145PS of Mondeo 2.0 than the 125PS Mondeo 1.8. There are lots of 1.8VVTis for sale, so plenty of choice without traipsing around the country.
So it looks like the Vectra better go back on the short list. Does anyone know if the 1.8VVTi Vectra is actually as good in real life as the figures suggests? (Extra power isn't that great if it is only available by revving the engine madly)
Edited by NowWheels on 09/12/2008 at 17:00
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but they are rare, and a lot of them seem to be the SRi variant with lowered suspension
See if you can find a Vectra "2.2 direct elite" within your budget. That does not have the sports gubbins.
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See if you can find a Vectra "2.2 direct elite" within your budget. That does not have the sports gubbins.
Very few Vectra 2.2 elites available, and those that are for sale are both a year or 2 older with 10k-20k extra miles, at at least £1000 more than the wide choice of 07 1.8VVTi for sale at £5,999
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In our small business when choice of cars was dictated by lack of cash and taking any special short term offers, colleagues had two Avensii then two Mondeos and finally two Vectras. Both of them preferred the Mondeos by a mile and hated the Vectras for the sloppy handling and weak performance. Having driven both I thought the Vectra was ok, nothing more but the Mondeo was miles better to drive and just as relaxing on a motorway cruise.
Having owned a cheap 100,000 mile Mondeo 2.0 petrol for 40,000 trouble free miles and seen mpg in the low 30s and nearly 40 on a run I think I'd go for a petrol because of the reduced risk. I'd miss the diesel's torque and put up with a few mpg less and pay 15% less for my fuel.
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When i needed a - large - reliable - economical - value for money - estate car a few months ago i settled on a 1.8 petrol mondeo, largely, but not completely, influenced by the comments on this site. I chose petrol partly because i no longer do a huge annual mileage and didn't feel that i would reap the benefit of better diesel mpg bearing in mind the extra pump price, but mainly because of the warnings about possible reliability problems, well documented both here and elsewhere. Also i confess to not really being a diesel fan anyway, (though not so "anti" that i would dismiss cost savings). Months down the line, there are definitely some design features that i would change if i could, but basically it has so far done exactly what it promised, (a 200+mile, mostly motorway, trip on sunday completely fuss-free and comfortable). However .... i wish that i had gone for the 2.0ltr engine, the 1.8 is fine once on the move, but reminds me of a (non-turbo)diesel Audi 100 that i had in the early '80s (see, i am not completely anti-diesel !), being too sluggish off the line for me, and also necessitating too many down changes to maintain momentum, especially when loaded.
I didn't go for a Vectra because, i had a Mk1 and it let me down too many times, and cost a bomb to repair ( sorry sir, this is a different sensor that has failed, that'll be another ££££ please ), and i just don't like the dash on the '05ish reg ones.
I didn't go for an Avensis because, although i really like the drive, i was worried about the reported oil consumption issues on the petrol engines, and as you mention, the diesels command high prices, above budget for me anyway, in the right spec.
The Mondeo may go round corners ultimately the quickest, but the others i found to be perfectly acceptable in the real world, (as opposed to the Top Gear test track), so for me,
Avensis Diesel,
Mondeo 2.0 petrol,
Mondeo 1.8 petrol / Vectra diesel
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Out of curiousity, what sort of real life mpg do you normally see with the 1.8 estate Stan ?
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My local very well known supermarket has 1.8 "57" Vectras with 16000 miles for £5700. At that price, you'd have to do a huge mileage to make any savings with a diesel. I could live with having to use the gearbox a little more too! I'm guessing that the car would be used mostly on motorways, in which case that's what Vectras were built for. Bear in mind that the VED duty increases haven't really gone away, if thinking of the 2.2. (Incidentally my neighbour has one and gets 30 to 35mpg)
Cheers
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33.8 on the computer, low 35. - calculated after filling up, less than i was hoping for, and driving with a light right foot. I suspect the engine is a bit small for this size car, and is having to work too hard, roads are probably 65 / 35 urban and motorway. Am i expecting too much ?
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That compares with an indicated 51 on my tdci, typically 48 when I calculate it. Driven with a heavy foot on mostly wiggly roads.
So about 50% better fuel economy using a fuel costing 15% more. It has just cost me £930 for a set of four injectors but at 160,000 miles its earned those.
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Oh don't Spikeyhead !! Mine's coming up for that sort of mileage.........
:-(
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My Mondeo 2.0 petrol estate is only OK on fuel when constantly on long motorway runs where I think most folks would get 37mpg or a bit more with care. However on my daily country road shorter runs it usually falls below 30mpg. The good lady has used it for the past week with 50/50 motorway/normal roads and averaged around 34mpg.
When I bought this petrol model it was more than £1000 cheaper than a TDCi at the time (start of this year) so I'm well in financially but it still hurts seeing the computer reading 29mpg on many days.
Another reason I bought the petrol model was that I'd read here so much about the TDCi reliability I was nervous buying a diesel where the potential repair costs (£1200+ often reported) were more than 30% of the car's cost.
However since then at every opportunity I've asked folks about their TDCi and never actually met anyone who has had problems. This includes the taxi drivers in Blackpool the other weekend who were happily running them with no reliability issues, similarly the local Cambnridgeshire taxi firm I used yesterday. Perthaps even more telling the local busy town garage who look after a large amount of TDCi models and have never yet had to replace an injector pump or set of injectors.
Hence in our search for a £4k family car the TDCi is on the list with few concerns.
Something no-one seems to have mentioned for NowWheels is a Skoda Superb with the TDi engine. Too big for us and also we don't want a saloon but there are some cracking value examples about in our price range.
David
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A colleague of mine bought a TDCI a little over three years ago and sold it this Easter just before the warranty ran out. The thing was an absolute lemon and several mornings I gave him a lift into work from the Ford garage after he's left it there for yet another repair.
I think it had most parts of the fuel system replaced at some time, the general approach was to change a part and see if it ran better. OK under warranty, but not what you want when paying from your own pocket. He was not a high mileage or 'hard' driver and bought it mainly as a caravan tow car.
Interesting, a month or so after he'd P/X'd the car he received a letter from the person who'd bought it (a police officer no less) who asked if it had had any major engine repairs because it wasn't running well!
Of the people that I know (friends, relatives and colleagues) its the ones with diesel cars that have had large repair bills. I think petrol cars are generally more reliable and cheaper to fix when they do go wrong. If you read through the Which? car buying guide then mode-for-model the diesel cars tend to score lower than the petrol cars for faults, breakdowns and 'niggles'.
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I took my friend off yesterday to look at the cars at Motorpoint in Burnley. Strange experience: great to have a no-pressure salesperson, but a bit strange having to find the vehicles in a huge parking lot of cars jammed so tightly that we couldn't figure out how they could get one out of the middle without a big magnet to lift them up into the sky. Temperatures of zero on a very damp day made for cold that went right through you, so the place wasn't busy.
Anyway, the clear winner in the end was a Vectra 1.8 estate. Having driven lots of both of them as hire cars, my friend felt that there was little to choose between the Mondeo 1.8 and the Vectra 1.8 in terms of driving handling. I marginally preferred the Mondeo's interior, but the Vectra's dashboard felt simpler and more familiar to my friend, and she preferred that. We looked at hatches and estates, and to my surprise she reckoned that the Vectra estate had such a big boot (even with the cover in place) that it was worth going for.
So it'll be a low-mileage 0.8-reg Vectra 1.8 Life estate, at 40% of its list price new, which seems like a good deal. I need to check whether the Motorpoint car is a grey import, but otherwise the only issue is that identical vehicles with even lower are a few hundred cheaper in TradeSales of Slough.
Other things being equal, it's probably worth the trek down to Slough to save a few hundred quid, but before making a final decision I wanted to ask whether anyone had any reason other than price or vehicle to prefer TradeSales or Motorpoint in terms of customer service. So far as I can see, both are a here's-the-car-now-goodbye kinda operation, but is there much difference between them?
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So it'll be a low-mileage 0.8-reg Vectra 1.8 Life estate at 40% of its list price new which seems like a good deal. I need to check whether the Motorpoint car is a grey import but otherwise the only issue is that identical vehicles with even lower are a few hundred cheaper in TradeSales of Slough.
Do I understand correctly you DONT want a 'grey'?
if so.... before trekking down to Slough confirm that THEIR car isnt a grey... they always used to be!
very often Eire spec... I had a customer who bought an A class Merc, which didnt have;
infra red locking - std UK spec
central locking - std UK spec
alarm system - std UK spec
radio - std UK spec (car did have one when she viewed the car - didnt when she picked it up!)
That was a few years ago, so maybe things have changed - but Id check, and get confirmation in writing!
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NW - I thought I read that it couldn't be an estate for security reasons :-0
After I'd had my Mondeo estate broken into, the tonneau cover pulled back and the contents (only a few old clothes that time) of the boot stolen, I vowed that I would never leave my faithful Fenders, Gibson etc in the back of my estate - tonneau cover or not! I would never dare to leave the car in, say a service area, while I nipped to the loo unless someone stayed in the car. It was inconvenient, but a way of life.
Sadly, IMHO, a tonneau cover pulled over is an invitation to the scum - i.e. you have got something on board worth hiding - and worth nicking.
As we approach retirement, we are considering moving to one 'all-purpose' car and, whilst we still have the old Mondy estate, we appreciate the benefits of a large load space. However, when we do choose just one car, it will probably have to be a hatchback for security reasons.
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Sounds like your friend has made a good choice NW. I had a Vectra estate with that engine on hire a while back and it was a pleasant enough thing. Huge loadspace too which will prove handy from what you say.
One final thought if the deal is not already done or the decision made. You mention in the OP that your friend may cover up to 40k a year? Just a small thing in the scheme of it all but the Mondeo has a chain cam and the Vauxhall a belt. At some point the Vauxhall is going to need a relatively expensive belt change if she decides to keep the car long term which of course the Mondeo wouldn't.
May not be the deal breaker but just thought I'd mention it.
To be fair, either car would be an ideal choice.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 10/01/2009 at 17:22
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What load cover does the Signum have Humph ?
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Roller blind thing. Strange car in that the boot when all the seats are up is quite a lot smaller than you would imagine. There is the option to slide the seats forward to create a bigger boot while still retaining back seating but it's not massive.
Conversely when everthing is folded flat it becomes pretty big. I have to leave everything on show in mine but I have to in the Mondeo as well. You just get a bit circumspect about where you leave it. The standard rear privacy glass on the Signum helps though, especially after dark.
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Thanks for all the comments, folks, and for all the help in reaching a decision on this one.
By the time I called TradeSales they'd sold the car I was looking at, so I bought the Vectra at Motorpoint, so it's a done deal. All fairly hassle-free apart from the tedious ass-covering-spiel combined with buyer-requirements-quiz which is integrated with a sales pitch for paint protection and other such rip-offs, which see,ms to be an unavoidable bit of nonsense these days. (What's the occupation of the main driver of the car? astronaut. How long are you planning to keep the car? Until it drops. Are you aware that the car will continue to fall in value? Holy cow, that's astonishing. Do you plan to use the car for commercial purposes, such as carrying bags of cement? No, I just get a few hundredweight poured on loose through an open window). All so that they can cover their ass against allegations of mis-selling, which is nonsense anyway because these questions are never asked until the deal is ready to be signed.
The only other annoying thing so far is that they say they don't tax the car. I have to get there then walk down the road to the post office, which seems a bit mean.
Anyway, on the cam belt, this post says it can be done as a £200 job, which don't sound too bad: www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=69278
On the luggage cover, I was concerned that it advertises "valuable stuff underneath", but my friend never leaves anything valuable in the car other than in brief stops at service stations, and reckons that it's all liveable with. Not my call.
Assuming nothing goes awry, we're both quite pleased that I've been able to get my friend a bargain, not least because it's a young enough vehicle that we shouldn't have to repeat the exercise for at least four years. And by then petrol will probably be available only from delicatessens, so it'll all be over anyway.
Meanwhile, I wonder how long such deals will still be around, of a 9-month old 12k-mile mass-market car at less than 40% of the list price?
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How much did you pay for the Vectra in the end?
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Can't comment on the engine, but I've just got a new 150bhp diesel Vectra Estate (its a stop gap till the Insignia Tourer comes out). You can fit everything including the kitchen sink in th boot, and its a comfy cruiser. I've had a 2400 x 900mm breakfast bar and 3000mm kitchen upstands in it with no problems.
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How much did you pay for the Vectra in the end?
£7086 (including the compulsory "preparation fee" which should be included in the sticker price) for a 9-month old car with 12,000 miles on the clock. So it's run in (hopefully properly, although you can never be sure), but still has over 2 years left on the manufacturers warranty.
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NW - I thought I read that it couldn't be an estate for security reasons :-0
That had indeed been the plan, but when it came down it to the crunch hatchback boot of the Mondeo and Vectra wasn't big enough to accommodate all the gear. So given a choice between having some gear lying exposed on the back seat of a hatchback or having all of it under the pull-out tonneau cover of the estate, my friend's calculation was that it was better to have it all under some sort of cover. Time will tell whether than was the right calculation.
It does suggest to, though, that there should be a market for a rather different sort of car. Same front end as a Mondeo or Vectra, similar overall length, but instead of rear seats the passenger area would be truncated as in a 307CC-style coupé, and behind that it would have a very long covered boot to provide secure storage for stuff. Perfect for the travelling musician or sales rep or lots of other business users, who otherwise have to choose between an insecure estate car or a van with poor visibility and awful aerodynamics.
It would look like a sort of much-elongated-at-the-rear and non-4X4 version of a Suzuki X90, and would probably be laughed at by lots of people, but would be very functional.
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It does suggest to though that there should be a market for a rather different sort of car. Same front end as a Mondeo or Vectra similar overall length but instead of rear seats the passenger area would be truncated as in a 307CC-style coupé and behind that it would have a very long covered boot to provide secure storage for stuff.
There used to be (maybe still are) cars like this in France. Renault offered a version of the Clio which had a huge enclosed and lockable boot instead of the rear seats, but from the outside it looked like a bog standard 2 door Clio, i.e. the rear windows weren't blocked like on a van. I think the law allowed people to register such cars as commercial vehicles and save tax.
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"Sadly, IMHO, a tonneau cover pulled over is an invitation to the scum - i.e. you have got something on board worth hiding - and worth nicking."
I wouldn't have thought there was much in it, security-wise, between a hatch and an estate: once the thief has broken the window he (or she - let's not be sexist!) can lift the shelf as easily as rolling back the cover.
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I wouldn't have thought there was much in it security-wise between a hatch and an
estate: once the thief has broken the window he (or she - let's not be sexist!) can lift the shelf as easily as rolling back the cover.>>
That's true, Avant, indeed, some years ago whilst visiting Glasgow this happened to a friend with his Golf hatchback.
The point is, though, that a hatchback (almost) always has its shelf in place whether or not there is anything in the boot whereas most people with estates only pull the tonneau cover over when they've got something in the boot worth hiding. This is what attracted the scum to my first Mondeo estate - I'd made the mistake of pulling the cover over when I only had some old clothes and empty sandwich boxes in the boot. They smashed the rear side window and pulled the cover back. It made a devil of a mess and caused great inconvenience.
In the 80s, I played in a folk band and could get my gear into the boot of my Sierra hatchback and everything was fine. Throughout the 90s, I played in a 'function' band and carried half the pa system as well as my personal gear in the back of my Mondeo estate - the seats had to be put forward; there was no security and the car + gear could never be left. Now I'm back playing folk music again, with less gear, I tend to use my wife's Focus hatchback to get around. The snag with the Focus is that it's a bit nippier than the Mondeo and I have to watch it after I was done for doing 47 in a 40 limit!
When I'm out working (surveying), I carry all my equipment with me and leave the boot cover in the Mondeo open so that it can be seen that there's nothing valuable in there.
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Waino I think your views on the hatch vs estate cover are coloured by your previous theft experience. As are mine on trailer security after the theft of an expensive one, similarly my in-laws on house break-ins after a major home break-in where they lost so much.
I pull my Mondeo estate load cover over every time before I close the tailgate as do many other folks and I'd be amazed if it attracted a thief. Hopefully we are not moving towards the HGV fashion and leaving the tailgate up when lunching in a service station!
Having said that in our local farming community, where equipment theft is always a threat, it is said an £80 padlock on a building is a very good clue there is something in there worth taking!
Good choice of car NW... an as-new Vectra estate for the price of a new Corsa has to make sense.... and just makes the sales patter bearable.
David
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Waino I think your views on the hatch vs estate cover are coloured by your
previous theft experience.>>
That's true, but my philosophy is based on the old saying "Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me". The first time, we had a bag of old clothing stolen; they are certainly not going to get the chance to nick a £2k+ Fylde Oberon!
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Waino I had to look up your Fylde Oberon... see it's 10/10 with all reviewers on Harmony Central so must be worth looking after!
Not a player myself but for various reaons have a fair amount of older HH, Carlsbro and other instrument/PA amp gear about. Not valuable but cherished and would hate to see it get taken. Currently stored in a building with a "modest" padlock.
David
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Hopefully we are not moving towards the HGV fashion and leaving the tailgate up when lunching in a service station!
Now thats something I find stupid!
HGV doors open - knowt in it
HGV doors shut - thats the one to break into / mug the driver!
to me, thats the same as leaving the box your new £2k TV came in on your drive... you may as well put a full page ad in the local paper!
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I have estate cars for work and due to the quantity and size of kit I need on a daily basis have no choice but to leave them parked with everthing on show. My work takes me to all manner of locations some of which are in inner cities and so on. Not ideal I know but a couple of interesting things have come out of this.
In thirty years or so of taking this risk, the only vehicles I have ever had broken into were so called "premium" badged ones and in both cases it was when they were empty and during the night.
I wonder sometimes if potential thieves think my car is a crude entrapment device and decide to leave it alone !
On that subject, a German friend of mine obtained from somewhere a German policemans cap and hi-vis vest thing and leaves them on the passenger seat when he has to leave his car unattended with stuff on show. No idea whether it works as a deterrent but so far he has been lucky.
On the load cover thing, if I have it fitted I always keep it closed whether there is anything in the boot or not. Most of the time it gathers dust in the garage though.
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On that subject a German friend of mine obtained from somewhere a German policemans cap and hi-vis vest thing and leaves them on the passenger seat when he has to leave his car unattended with stuff on show.>>
Good idea, Humph!
Call me a miserable, distrusting old cynic, but I now regard tonneau covers as worse than useless as security devices - unless someone has invented a 'reinforced' one. It brings to mind an old friend telling me that he always knew when his neighbours were away from home - they always advertised it by shutting the gate to their drive ....... a similarly futile 'security' measure.
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Mind you, some of the places I go they'd probably steal the hat.
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Sorry folks, I got another question.
Motorpoint offered to fit reversing sensors for £230. I declined because I wasn't sure whether the driver wanted them, and because I thought that Motorpoint was likely to be charging too much.
My friend had now decided that they would be useful, so I thought I'd ask here what people think of the £230 price. I'm not up to fitting them myself, but if I could get them fitted for significantly less elsewhere I'd be interested in saving the cash, but have no idea where to look for a supply-and-fit operation.
Any suggestions?
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Far too much - £150.00 to have proper VAG ones fitted to the Roomie. Phone a Vauxhall dealer and ask them
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Was looking at some tick on ones in Robert Dyas today for under £20.
Edited by smokie on 11/01/2009 at 23:37
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Far too much - £150.00 to have proper VAG ones fitted to the Roomie. Phone a Vauxhall dealer and ask them
That sounded like a good idea, so I didn't get Motorpoint to fit them. But the two local Vauxhall dealership chains have quoted me £270 and £290 respectively, which I declined
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to find an independent dealer who could do the job for a less crazy price?
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Try any local car audio and alarm place, all the ones around here seem to have a wide variety of different electronic car gizmos available for fitting.
They all have reversing sensors available and most sell the reversing camera kits too (even more useful than sensors IMO, although I've never had a car with them so can't speak from experience)
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Oh and just to clarify I wasn't thinking of Halfords, more like an independant specialist as they tend to have a range of better quality stuff although I suppose Halfords will be ok too.
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Thanks, Blue! I'll give em a go tomorrow.
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Reversing sensors,
I have recently received a set from www.tradingdirect.co.uk Different specs to choose from, but mine are the cheapest ones at £50. you have to organise fitting yourself, but they included a list of "approved" (independent) fitters, no prices, i guess you get a quote from your chosen fitter. I am waiting for my usual mechanic to fit mine so can't comment on performance yet, lots of different colours too, so i would think that most people should be able to get a match.
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Checking around, there seems to be a variety of suppliers who'll sell the bits and independents who will fit them, but I have no way of knowing which of the kits is good quality and which is junk.
Two garages I spoke to had stopped fitting the aftermarket ones after having problems, and while I'm sure there are good aftermarket ones I'm in no position to judge. So in the end I have booked the car in to have a Vauxhall kit of 4 bumper-mounted sensors fitted on wednesday at a cost of £225 inc VAT. Seems a bit steep, but at least if there's any problem it's a Vauxhall issue. Most of the cost seems to be labour: I have been told it will take 2 hours, and at dealer rates that's half the bill.
Hope Stan's £50 set work well -- if they do turn out to be good, you've got a bargain!
Edited by NowWheels on 19/01/2009 at 16:27
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Labour is probably more than half of that NW - my local Vx dealer is £80 ph, possibly plus VAT. So your sensors are somewhere around £50...
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Just checked out the invoces I had when the sensors were added to the Roomie - it was a £150.00 +VAT - the fitting is CANbus compliant (i.e. they are disabled when towbar electrics are connected). Neat installation as good as the OE bits of kit fitted to various BMWs over the years.
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This is going to sound sneery and dismissive but it's not meant to honestly. Can I just ask a question in genuine enquiry please? What exactly are parking sensors for? If you have your mirrors set up correctly and your seat adjusted properly you can see where your car is and where it is going. Why would you need a beepy thing to confirm what you already know ? If you can't see as far as the end of your car or remember where it is, it does rather beg the question as to whether your eyesight and memory are quite good enough to be driving at all.
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Dunno. Just had them for the last four cars I suppose...You really don't need them on the Roomie - but I didn't know that when I bought it.
EDIT:- Just remembered why - my parents live down a very narrow, but long drive (built in the 30s when cars were very narrow), turning around at the bottom is a precision job (which he manages quite well in his seven series - front and rear sensors), it is a multi point turn in whichever car you drive, the sensors on the BMWs were a real boon here, on the Roomie they just take the edge off the turn really and ----- OK I'm lazy.
Edited by Pugugly on 19/01/2009 at 21:24
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Honestly just curious. I have driven cars with the beepy things but always thought "yeah, I know" when they start chirruping. I just find them annoying. Maybe ther's a thread starter here..."Things you can have but don't actually need" like rear electric windows. Rear seat passengers in my experience are keen to have something to alleviate boredom. A few seconds turning a handle might cheer them up or while away an otherwise meaningless few seconds.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 19/01/2009 at 21:25
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Not going to suggest you start another thread Humph - IIRC it went wrong the last time I did !
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Yes, you are probably right PU. I wouldn't want to awaken the sleeping tigers.........
;-)
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I spoke to my brother in law who is a Ford mechanic and he said 2.0 litre petrol. Will have higher CO2 output and higher tax but he says that there is more potential for expensive aggro wth the Derv.
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"Things you can have but don't actually need" like rear electric windows.
Absolutely essential when you have small children, as you can lock them from the driver's seat.
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>> "Things you can have but don't actually need" like rear electric windows. Absolutely essential when you have small children as you can lock them from the driver's seat.
When I was a kid, we were just told not to use the windows without asking ... as was everyone else in those days, because electric rear windows were unheard of. I don't even recall seeing them in the huge Merc driven my my friends Dad.
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I have driven cars with the beepy things but always thought "yeah I know" when they start chirruping.
Personally, i find them a godsend. Modern cars have such poor rear visibility that without them it's very easy to miss something, and mine have saved me from an expensive crunch on several occasions.
I wish I had had them ten years ago, when I reversed in the dark into an unlit black car parked in an unlit area. I hadn't seen it in the mirrors, and the resulting crunch was expensive.
"Things you can have but don't actually need" like rear electric windows. Rear seat passengers in my experience are keen to have something to alleviate boredom. A few seconds turning a handle might cheer them up or while away an otherwise meaningless few seconds.
I find them very useful, because I don't often have rear seat passengers, and opening them is great for rapid ventilation. For example, after getting into the car after its been it hot sun, opening the rear windows for a while helps change the air promptly, and I can only close them again if they are electric. It's also useful if someone has passed wind.
On my last car, which had no air con, I used to find on a hot day that I got much better ventilation if I opened the rear windows a touch. Since this nearly always seemed to happen when only the front seats were occupied, and the windows were all hand-wound, I had to stop and get out to open the windows, and do the same again to close them. The leccy windows avoid all that, and I'd hate to be without them.
Edited by Webmaster on 23/01/2009 at 00:23
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hi iv just bought 02 mondeo diesel after selling second hand shogun and i love it for fuel costs and comfort and mpg
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