Took my '56 2.2 (150) D4-D Avensis for its 40k service on Saturday. When I dropped the keys off at the service desk they explained that they also had to do an ECU re-program, as recommended by the factory. I'm not delighted with the results.....
Symptom 1 - On the five or six occasions I have started the car since the service it has started extremely poorly. It initially ticks over, rough as a tractor, at about 800rpm with some accompanying white smoke. Within 2-3 seconds the revs rise to a more normal (cold idle) 1100rpm or so. It has never started like this in the past.
Symptom 2 - the MPG is now appalling, averaging 36.5 on the computer over 100+ miles since the service. Usually I see high-40s mpg, occasionally into the 50s, and I find the computer under-reads. Many of these miles have been with cruise on at around 60mph on the Mway, no different to my normal commute pattern. On the way home tonight I monitored the 'momentary' readout and it varied between 30 and 45mpg generally, rarely getting into the 50s. I'd probably usually expect to see 50-70mpg under those conditions.
One non-scientific observation - the car seemed livelier during a quick acceleration in 3rd , probably just because it has been serviced, but it definitely felt more powerful.
Has anyone else seen similar changes after a service? Toyota or non-Toyota, would still be interested to know. (Strangely, my car also suffered a 5-10% drop in MPG after the 20k service, only being back to normal after the 30k one).
One other thing, they added fuel cleaner to the tank. Are these different for petrol and diesel? Is it possible that something unwelcome has been added to the tank?
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When you reset the ECU the ECU starts to learn new things, I've always found if I have to disconnect the battery the engine runs very rough at first until the ECU has stored new values about what is working, the wear etc of certain things.
How many miles have you done since you got it back? It should only be a few miles then it should run properly, but if you still have problems I am barking up the wrong tree.
With the smoke have you checked the oil level to see if they have over filled?
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It could be the air filter has been incorrectly fitted.
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Rattle - yes, I did wonder if the car would have to "re-learn" how it was being driven.
Altea Ego - good point, it did involve an air filter change.
Thanks for the answers guys - will see how it goes on the morning commute and then give the dealer a call if no improvement, both theories sound plausible.
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Has anyone else had these symptoms? My Avensis is due a service and the dealer has told me he intends to do a software upgrade at the same time. Apparently the upgrade is to reduce the chance of the engine management warning light coming on unnecesarily, but if it results in rough running and poor economy I don't want it.
Any thoughts from bristolmotorspeedway or any other toyota users, is the upgrade to be avoidd??
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I did hear a colelague mention that when Toyota remapped his ECU, they remapped it as a 130 and not the 150 . He had similar rough running and low MPG. Was fine once he got them to do the job properly.
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Any thoughts from bristolmotorspeedway or any other toyota users is the upgrade to be avoidd??
Sorry for delayed reply - not been around for a while.
Panic over...my car settled down gradually after the service. The first full tank of fuel saw the starting improve slightly and economy recover a little. (calculated at 43.5mpg, computer showing 38). The second tank returned the starting completely to normal (phew!) and the mpg improved further, returning 40.5 on the computer.
I've now done around 1500 miles since the service and would say that the car is ok. The fuel computer seems to under-read even more than it did before (used to be 2mpg or so pessimistic, now seems more like 5mpg out). None of the tankfuls have been driven particularly economically compared with my usual driving - combination of more cold starts/short runs over the bank hols and some temptingly empty motorways on working days (I'm usually content to cc it at 56mph to de-stress the mway commute).
Given the effects of adding fuel, I can only assume the poor starting was due to the added fuel cleaner - once the cleaner/diesel ratio improved in favour of diesel, so did the starting.
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>Symptom 1 - [starting] ...It initially ticks over, rough as a tractor, at about 800rpm with some accompanying white smoke. Within 2-3 seconds the revs rise to a more normal (cold idle) 1100rpm or so. It has never started like this in the past.
This exactly describes the starting behaviour of our Verso D4D 140 - a very similar engine to the Avensis 150. That is 11 months old and is just coming up to its 10,000-mile service (booked for Fri 1 May.) I also find that the engine sounds rough and pulls hesitantly for the first couple of miles. This behaviour has come on quite recently - and there's been no recent service or ECU remap.
Fuel consumption remains the mildly disappointing 41 mpg (measured fill to fill - the computer is a useless toy) we've had since the car was new. (Disappointing because my older, heavier, quieter, smoother and faster Volvo S60 regularly betters 45 mpg despite having only five speeds to the Verso's six.) The engine seems not to be using any oil.
We'll be mentioning the starting and smoke to the garage. Toyota diesels generally seem not to live up to their fuel economy promises, so there's probably not much to be done there. Will report back after the service
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Update as promised. Well, so much for 'not much to be done'! The service found 'carbon deposits in the EGR', which the dealer put down to 'overfuelling'. They plan to replace all the diesel injectors, which will take most of next week (and they've given us a luridly-bestickered and horrid to drive Yaris in the meantime), after which we'll have to see what it's achieved.
I confess I'm rather dismayed by this. Despite HJ's warm words on Toyota diesel engines, there seems to be a depressing number that suffer poor fuel economy, turbo problems and worse. My Volvo diesel has been no trouble at all, and I was expecting a Toyota to be even less (!) so I hope this really will be the end of the problems in our case.
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That's very disappointing, WdeB - in the time you've had your Verso I put 31,000 completely trouble-free miles on a VW Golf 2.0 TDI estate. I've just traded it in only because I could get a good deal on a faster and (particularly) quieter Octavia.
Is there a pattern emerging here, of Japanese diesel engines not being up to quite the same legendary standards of reliability as their petrol counterparts? We've had some horror stories in the Backroom over the last year or so of Honda and Mazda diesels failing, and now here's a Toyota.
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Just read your posts WdeB, sounds disappointing, but hopefully they have pinpointed the fault and it will be good from now on.
Mine is now just over 47k and running ok, but the economy is probably not as good as it was when the car was newer. The starting issues never came back though, thankfully. Will be interesting to see what changes the 50k service brings :-)
These minor issues aside, my car has been completely reliable and has needed no warranty work at all (yet, touch wood, etc etc).
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Quick post-service update.
We got the Verso back two days ahead of schedule (credit to Listers of Stratford for being courteous and communicative throughout) and it sounds, feels and smells a lot better. It hasn't got through a tank of fuel yet, so it's too soon to say whether there's an effect on fuel consumption - although for what (little) it's worth the computer suggested 48 mpg over 170 miles of motorway last Friday, which is an improvement if I can trust it. We'll see, but I hope this is the end of the smoke story.
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:) good that all is back to normal - doesn't sound like a mechanical problem BUT i wonder whether they loaded the wrong map onto your car or something with the ECU wasn't reset OR a sensor had been damaged or loose judging by the symptoms you have described.
I think the wrong ECU map is highly unlikely as it is downloaded from the toyota mainframe so i can't see how it could have misenterprated that; but still the problems dont sound mechanical. 48mpg is very good for a 150bhp verso.
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Recently I took My Avensis 2.24D to have a 60,000 mile service. Before taking it in I had enjoyed great MPG figures of 55- 65MPG and up to 80MPG on some long runs.
The service people said they had a recall to upgrade the ECU to fix poor starting at Minus 20 degrees in Sweden. After the service the car struggled to do 40 MPG and so I contacted Toyota. They gave anothe reason for the modification "to reduce premature wear" They have refused to undo the modification which is now costing me £15-20 a month so I am deciding to take legal action as the car no longer meets the specification it was sold with (bought from New). The mod is not mandatory but if Toyota askes the dealer top do it he is obliged to do it. Hence I intend to claim damages. The lerning cycle does nothing to improve things.
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