Plain clothes police officers and off duty officers in plain clothes* have no power to stop motor vehicles...they need to be in uniform
*(There is a grey area for plain clothes officers in cars fitted with warning equipment e.g. blue lamps/sirens and who have some form of uniform i.e. how much uniform would be needed to fulfil that purpose, probably not a lot).
In your scenario that person, if a police officer, would have no power to stop you. If you're already stopped, that's a different matter.
To call you a silly tart and bother to intervene in the first place for the scenario as told suggests gross unprofessionalism and tells me it is likely that there is A, more to the story or B, he wasn't a police officer.....because: although all police officers are not saints, they'd be pretty stupid to act in that fashion, because of quite a strict discipline code, that really isn't worth getting tangled up with whilst out walking your dogs. Having said that there are fools in every profession.
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Given that it was near an American airbase, and the fact that US forces these days are pumped full of the notion that Yurp and everywhere else is stuffed full Osama's little helpers, and bases have verey high levels of security, it may perhaps have been an American official of some sort flexing his muscles where he shouldn't have. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened, though it's hard to see how cardriver45 posed any grounds for him losing his temper.
Seems to me to be a more likely bet than a local police officer indulging in behaviour which could have got him into a lot of trouble.
Poor cardriver45, though. Sounds very unpleasant, whoever the bullyboy was.
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After he banged on the window and showed me a badge, I thought it was odd behaviour, but I knew i had was wrong to turn down the road so a natural instinct is to answer the police. I just wanted to leave, but it was such an odd reaction that I asked for his name, that when he shouted stupid tart at me and walked off. It's only later I thought that his badge was not British, do British policemen even have a badge and why carry it around off duty anyway?
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Report it to the Police straightaway;they will take it very seriously.
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Yes it was in the road i turned into, which is why I realised on the action of actually turning, it was my fault. I saw a layby ahead, pulled in and turned around.
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Guy sounds like a Walter Mitty character to me - don't suppose he's a policeman of any sort.
Having said that, he called cardriver45 a "stupid tart".
Now if the OP is in her mid-40s, and dead fit, this story might make more sense - one thing our boys in blue do have is a keen eye for the ladies.
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From what youve described it could have either been an off duty policeman, or someone impersonating a policeman. Whichever it is, they need speaking to, so report it asap.
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It sounds to me like someone impersonating an officer, as I doubt a real one would dare behave like that in these 'modern times.'
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Well they dare duff up off-duty soldiers in Manchester! The exception NOT the tule I hasten to add
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I am having some difficulty understanding what it is cardriver thinks she has done that is so wrong and her own fault. Surely it can't be u-turning, a manoeuvre most of us do at least once in most weeks, often in dense traffic?
I think it is most unwise for a lady to stop at night when signalled to do so by some barmy citizen out walking his dogs. She should have run them all down and gone straight to the police.
Edited by Lud on 01/12/2008 at 14:10
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Your man is a Walt of the first order - see tinyurl.com/6lw2oz for info on some career Walts.
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I was driving at the back of Dover once when some idiot jumps out of a hedge armed with a gun;I stopped but with hindsight I should have driven straight over him-soldier on training.
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Hi Jc2
Judging from the responses I think my easiness on stopping and opening my window was down to my OWN guilt of entering a one-way street the wrong way. Normally, I would just think "what the hell is this man doing" drive around him, if possible and call the police. Given that the area I live in Norfolk has just had a few "flag them down" robberies I should have been more wary.
No-one has really answered my question of whether the off duty police (or anyone) can stop you like this, or whether British police show badges in this fashion. So I am still unclear on this.
So all I can do is my best from now on.
I should bear in mind, no-one flags anyone down, unless in extreme distress. 20 years ago I was flagged down on a motorway. I thought my tire was flat, or I had some emergency, I was given religious material! I thought I had learnt my lesson.
I like someone's earlier response of "must be really fit" to elicit such behaviour - that made me smile, that relieved my stress and was good. And of course I am lovely :o)
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>>No-one has really answered my question of whether the off duty police (or anyone) can stop you ....
Cardriver, re-read the first line of the reply from Westpig as it gives you the answer with the authority of a policeman! I read it that the police officer either has to be in uniform or in a marked car of some description to stop you.
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coppers off duty or in civvy clothes will show warrant card to demonstrate quickly who they are (sometimes), some warrant cards are in a wallet with a police badge on them nowadays in the uk although the legal document alongside is the official warrant card and the wallet is not needed if the copper chooses not to use it, wallet opens to show police badge one side and the plastic card (the actual warrant card) with photo on the other
off duty dogs officers often take their dogs to obscure places for walks, the dogs normally live with them 24/7 on and off duty
although normally a dogs officer also keeps his police signed van for use off duty too for transporting the dogs, although there is no reason he couldnt be out for a walk without the van or indeed transport the dogs in his own car if he wanted
officers not in uniform have no power to stop cars, this doesnt mean they wont try to stop folk in an emergency, it just means they have no powers to enforce if you fail to stop
from sounds of your description you were already very slow/stopped and he came up to you, so he was in no sense stopping your car, he was coming over for a chat after you were already slow enough to approach
any copper letting his dogs near enough to scratch my car in these circumstances would feel my reasonable anger, probably to his inspector the next morning
on the other hand if you were driving a bit dodgy maybe he just got a shock and was warning you off
fairly good chance it wasnt a copper, just someone scared trying to get you to go away
i told a bunch of gangsters in manchester i was a copper as a last resort way of getting them to let me go, tough choice, but it worked, any copper wanting to do me for impersonation can get stuffed didnt have many choices at the time, i can imagine someone being threatened trying the same
bet ya this thread gets locked by the same old police are perfect mafia that modetate this site
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How far away from the AF base were you and what type of dogs were they ?
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best advice is take a photo of them with your mobile phone
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best advice is take a photo of them with your mobile phone
Not if you're near an AF base.
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>> best advice is take a photo of them with your mobile phone Not if you're near an AF base.
This isn't Greece!
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In the 2nd post [1st reply] in this thread, Mr X asked
"Was there any sign to say that you must not enter the road in which you turned ? "
to which cardriver45 replied at Mon 1 Dec 08 08:43:
"Yes it was in the road i turned into, which is why I realised on the action of actually turning, it was my fault. I saw a layby ahead, pulled in and turned around. "
in other words, cardriver45 appears to have trespassed on to restricted area of an American base.
Now, in the case of restricted land where Americans are based:
some history, just a small snippet from -
cndyorks.gn.apc.org/caab/articles/FWELL.HTM
"Leaving Feltwell was a lot more complicated than entering it, however. An American security "police" car parked itself across the front of us and an American HumVee parked itself on the drivers side. Both refused to move despite all three of us asking them to. The MDP assured the Americans that we had commited no crime and were free to leave; ....
....
The assault, when it came, was swift, violent and seemingly well-practiced. Lt. Col. Byrd forced the slightly open window down and opened the driver?s door. Lindis was grabbed and dragged out of the car by the gloved ones. .... ....
Lindis had been dragged behind the car, pinned face down on the ground and had her hands cuffed behind her back. Despite her predicament, I could hear her crying out to her American assailants that I couldn?t get out of the car without the wheelchair, crutches or careful help and asked them please not to touch me.
....
...
Lindis had now been dragged across the grass, some way from the side of the car and was sat on the ground with her hands still cuffed behind her back. She was surrounded by American soldiers and one of them was crouched down behind her, holding the cuffs. Her cardigan was up around her neck and she was still frantically pleading with them not to hurt me.
...
As he put his hand out to open the door the MDP who?d been on the phone all this time, came running over to the car and asked Lt. Col. White and Lt. Col. Byrd to have a word with his senior officer on his car phone. To my extreme relief they did! Lindis was on her feet by now, still cuffed and surrounded by soldiers. Lt. Col. Byrd was talking on the car phone and, as I swivelled my eyes between him and Lindis, I realised that the Americans were still videoing both of us. ...
The case was heard in the High Court in London (in Chambers) on Monday 6 and Tuesday 7 October 1997. As the Americans had already entered a Certificate of Immunity the two-day hearing was to hear matters of law as to whether the court actually had the jurisdiction to even hear the case. At the end of the hearing Master Trench reserved his judgement for three weeks.
As all domestic remedies, criminal and civil, have now been exhausted, the case is lodged in the European Court as the next step.
To counter such "intrusions" and "trespass", Parliament has taken this action:
www.parliament.uk/deposits/depositedpapers/2008/DE...c
".... 6. LEGAL RESPONSES TO INTRUDERS:
Under UK law, simple trespass is not a criminal offense. However, with the enactment of section 68 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, the offense of ?aggravated trespass? came into force. Accordingly, it is now an offense of aggravated trespass if a person trespasses on land in open air ....
...
and the trespasser returns and enters that land without authority within the 3 month period, he will be committing aggravated trespass (no evidence required other than showing person was previously warned off).
In the late 1990s the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) started prosecuting intruders under this charge using ?base security? as the lawful activity being disrupted. The prosecutions have, for the most part, been successful. ...
...
Edited by jbif on 01/12/2008 at 23:59
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All right. She turned into a road with some sort of sign saying US Military, Keep Out, and immediately turned round to leave. Some geezer with a couple of dogs banged on her window and insulted her.
Was the geezer American? And why did he want to talk to her when she was leaving? And why, if she wasn't supposed to be there, was there no gate or barrier? The answer can only be because she was nowhere near being on US Military property yet and the geezer was just being offensive.
I drove up a road near Dar es Salaam airport to kill some time on a Sunday morning in 1980. Two guys who looked like farmers came up while I was strolling about. I was looking over a wall at what appeared to be a cemetery. The guys said something and I greeted them, adding, 'Is that a cemetery?' They stared at me coldly and one replied: 'It is not necessary for you to know.' Oh dear.
At that moment a lorry drove up and stopped hemming my car in its place under a tree, and a large crowd appeared out of nowhere, murmuring in the neutral fashion of African crowds. Apparently I had strayed into a so-called 'military area' and the guys thought I was a potential enemy. I was due to pick up a carload of nuns and drive them to my host's chicken farm, so was a bit worried about the schedule. But the guys rejected all arguments and blandishments and led me off to their officer in a house a couple of hundred yards away. After a while and a bit of passport scrutiny he let me go, but an armed sergeant told me I couldn't drive off until he said I could.
I went back to the car. The crowd was still there and seemed pleased that I had been freed. 'Don't worry about it,' someone said. 'It happens to us all the time.' I said the sergeant had told me I couldn't go yet. He was down there outside the officer's house only a few yards from the road out. 'I don't want to be shot,' I explained.
The crowd sniggered. 'Don't worry about him,' it said. 'He won't shoot you, no way. No problem. You can go.' So I left. The sergeant kept his back turned and his Kalash pointed down as I drove fairly cautiously past.
Phew! Just as well they hadn't seen the cheapo small plastic camera I had in my bag under the driver's seat. That would really have caused trouble.
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Given the thread here I think I should clarify.
Yes Feltwell. But the other end of the town to the base. The town has a long one way system, in and out. But I was not near the military base.
It was dark I think the dogs were either lightish alsatians or huskies?
I was probably doing 25-30 not fast but fast enough to see a man ahead and wonder what he was doing in the road and need to make the effort to stop, he was in the centre and arms outstretched. Definitely blocking my path. I was now going the right way down the road, for this reason my immediate reaction was he must need something, not that he was police or anything. I hadn't previously upset him for any reason, he didn't state this nor did i, he just banged on the window, said his piece and left basically, I sat their fairly surprised then collected my thoughts and asked his name, this is when he insulted me and left. It was when i was driving way, I thought could have been anyone and together with the dogs was an alarming experience.
Last thing on my mind was I must get a camera and take a picture!
Thank you to the person who clarified the powers etc - I like to be law-abiding and to understand how i should react in future.
Hope this puts to rest any speculation.
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>> best advice is take a photo of them with your mobile phone >> >> Not if you're near an AF base. This isn't Greece!
Manatee: Sometimes, it is worse than Greece.
www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/28/police_photograph.../
".. Official Secrets? Act 1911, which makes it an offence to take photographs of certain prohibited places (like dockyards and power stations). ..
... s.75 of the Counter-Terrorism Bill, .... makes it an offence to "elicit or attempt to elicit information about" members of the armed forces, intelligence services, or policemen, where this information could be of use to a terrorist. ..."
tinyurl.com/68s8du
www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1872631....e
"Are you in Al-kidda?
A SCHOOLBOY was stopped on suspicion of being a terrorist ? for taking photos of a railway station.
Fabian Sabbara, 15, was wearing his school uniform when the Police Community Support Officer swooped. "
Edited by jbif on 02/12/2008 at 09:10
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"I was due to pick up a carload of nuns and drive them to my host's chicken farm".
Now, that is a great opening line of a book.
For lunch? To pluck chickens?
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I have this theory that Ian Fleming modelled James Bond on Lud, but of course he's too discrete to let on.
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Ian Fleming modelled James Bond on Lud,
That thought was at the back of the minds of those two raggedly-dressed military intelligence or whatever they were Wp. In your case it is mere flattery, in theirs it was actually a bit alarming there for a while... In those situations the sight of a senior officer or party official is always a great relief, because you know they will soon understand the true position.
Journalists nose about and ask questions, and just hang about examining things and passing the time of day with people, so they are quite often mistaken for spies by the paranoid. It goes with the territory.
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Retgwte - << i told a bunch of gangsters in manchester i was a copper as a last resort way of getting them to let me go, tough choice, but it worked, any copper wanting to do me for impersonation can get stuffed didnt have many choices at the time, i can imagine someone being threatened trying the same
bet ya this thread gets locked by the same old police are perfect mafia that modetate this site>>
You can get medical assistance for paranoia....
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