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I see a lot of posts that state that driving standards are better on the continent that they are in the UK in one way or another. The latest was in relation to motorcycling. Having both worked and driven on holiday fairly extensively in Europe I am firmly of the opinion that this is largely wishful thinking or that tendency we have in this country to to ourselves down. We obviously have our fair share of idiots but I would say that the standard of driving here overall is better than virtually all of the rest of Europe with most drivers complying with the law and behaving in a safe and civilised manner. You do not see here the aggression (or the accident rate) you find in Paris , the macho craziness of Milan or the suicidal overtaking of Portugal. Would be interested to here what others think - especially non nationals.
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"the macho craziness of Milan"
It was near Milan Malpensa we got rear ended in the hire car by an HGV - less than 40 minutes after landing!
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During the 3000 miles or so I drive in Europe each year I have to say that I don't agree - the level of aggressive driving in most parts of the UK is far higher than in Belgium, Germany or Northern France... I agree that there are parts of those countries where things are different (Paris is one), but in the country and other towns and cities their level of civility when driving is far better than the equivilent parts of the country over here... less crowded roads is one feature that has an effect on it, I suspect...
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b308, the point on overcrowding is a very valid one. The stretch of M6 between say J14 and J17 has problems a lot of the time due to volume of traffic. And then too many cars drive far to close thinking they will make better progress. And if you leave a gap someone will undertake and fill it. At that point I leave the motorway.
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B308 I totally agree.
I just hate returning to drive here after any stretch in Germany/Belgium/Holland/France/Luxem/Switz/Austria. Not so sure about Poland and Italy though.
But agree city driving is city driving wherever. But once out of the cities the difference is so refreshing.
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Capital cities seem to be an exception to any rule. I was in Ireland earlier this month, and noticed that while rural driving was more relaxed than in West Yorkshire, Dublin was as mad as ever. Cars following far too close, nobody letting me merge to a l/h lane, etc etc
It reminded me of the differences between London and other parts of England
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I am convinced that tailgating is very much worse in France - not by lorries or vans but by ordinary drivers and (sorry) especially young women with children in the back and mum in the front passenger seat. I really feel they are looking no further than the bumper in front. On two occasions on our last trip, I turned off into hotel drives to shake them off and they followed me up the drive! - then looked bewildered at why they had had to stop.
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Being bullied; here or abroad, only happens if you allow it.
They wont actually hit you (well most wont!). Once they learn that you are driving your car how you want they will sit back.
Its no worse than the "fast" people who can only drive in the outside lane of motorways who will flash you if you stay in their way a second too long. personally I dont move out of their way until I deem it correct to do so.
Allowing yourself to be intimidated is what has made our standards lower over the years?
Bad driving manners in inexcusable in any country.
IMO it just happens less in Europe !
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Its no worse than the "fast" people who can only drive in the outside lane of motorways who will flash you if you stay in their way a second too long. personally I dont move out of their way until I deem it correct to do so.
Unfortunately some of those people will promptly undertake unless you pull in right in front of the car you are overtaking. Not many of them, but it does happen
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If they do it to you, just indicate left? Dont move until its safe, just indicate.
They dont like that!
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An amusing example of attitudes differ. In Lefkas town in October our bus was blocked by a Golf just parked in the middle of the road. After a few minutes the bus driver got out and tried the door - it opened. Not only unlocked but keys in ignition. The Greek bus driver solution? Drive the car forward and leave in the middle of the road blocking the other carriageway. Then he left it and we carried on. Only in Greece would this happen.
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Pretty carp. As elsewhere.
However the fact that many people survive the road - perhaps even a very small majority - suggests that some of us are excessively harsh judges.
Sorry about that, mimsers. But I'm afraid you deserve a bit of injustice.
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In the last two years I have driven 40k miles in the uk, about 4k-km in france, 1k-km in holland, 2k-km in italy, 500km in switzerland.
The driving standards seem pretty closely matched to me.
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pretty closely matched
Just so, AE. My very point.
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A couple of observations on driving in the UK. I find that in London drivers are more aware and accepting of movements of other vehicles than in some of my local venues, in Sheffield for example, where if you dare to blend in with flow on a major roundabout some buffoon will flash lights and charge at you.
I also have a standard business commute up the A1 to the York/Leeds A64 junction. In a normal weekday morning the traffic flow is speedy and friendly. recently on a Saturday morning it was like Milan in the rush hour, the majority of the users didn't appear to use mirrors at all, and if you dared to overtake they would speed past and brake in front of you...all very strange. Weekend drivers?
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I found driving in the US a relaxing experience.... four way crossroads where people take it in turn depending on the order they arrived at the junction, turning right at a stop light if clear to do so without pointless waiting, passing either side on freeways (they use mirrors and signals over there, it seems to work). There doesn't seem to be the same sort of impatience and bullying, either (mind you, the possibility of a gun in the glove compartment might have something to do with that)......
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1. Slow down to 50
2. Join the centre lane with the CLOGS
3. Drop back as I'm still doing 50 until I'm about 80 feet behind the car in front
4. Checking right hand mirror for a gap, signal and gun the Camaro into the outside lane using the slingshot method
5. Return to centre lane and slow down to 50, hoping in vain the CLOGS move over into the inside lane ;-) ;-)
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Speaking as a "foreigner", I have had two touring holidays in Europe / UK in the past 3 years, covering about 12,000 km in France, Italy, a bit of Switzerland, and most of Britain. In general, I would say that there is not much difference between countries, although I did tend to stay out of cities, preferring to use park-and-rides, but couldn't escape Paris and Naples. Neither of them gave me any more trouble than New Zealand or Australian cities, although that may have been because I was concentrating more as it was my first-ever time driving a left-hooker [ in 45 + years of driving.] I found Paris driving quite civilised, although that may possibly have been because I had the red "tourist" plates on the Pug so local drivers took mercy upon me. Edinburgh and Leicester were probably the biggest of the UK cities that I actually drove through, still on French tourist plates.
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After driving about 800 miles in Germany in the Summer, I can categorically state that the lane discipline on the Autobahns is in a different league to the dire standards of the same on our motorways.
Otherwise not much different in the other countries I've been to.
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I would stab a guess at a completely unscientific 10% - 10% of all driving everywhere, all the time, is atrocious, and it's pot luck what driver you get in front of or behind you at any given time and in any given country.
While an "average" British driver may be more courteous but more of a mimser, an average Swiss is better at overtaking on mountain bends, the average Spaniard parks stupidly and selfishly, the average Parisian uses his car as a battering ram, etc.
Drive in a different country for a while and you will quickly find that the number of things that annoy you roughly equal the number of positive aspects you'll wish we did back home.
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Is it just me or has anyone noticed a drop in driving standards especially with regard to other road users.
My current hate is people who dont use indicators on roundabouts so you cant tell if they're leaving or going to the next exit .... very annoying when you are trying to join said roundabout.
Maybe Im turning into a grumpy old man ?
[Moved into the existing Driving Standards Thread]
Edited by rtj70 on 01/12/2008 at 10:36
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