I have now had my Outback for two years, possibly the longest time I have run a car over 24 years of driving. I am perfecly happy with the car and feel very settled with it, with no itchy feet to change. But then I have a dilemma. What happens if I am forced to change for whatever reason - car is stolen, written off in an accident etc.
So assuming that I have a budget of £15,000, what would you buy bearing in mind the following aspects: -
I drive 9,000 miles each year in mostly suburban Manchester;
I would prefer an automatic;
I need four doors and seat four people in comfort;
I demand air-con, electric and heated mirrors, electric windows and remote central locking. I would like Bluetooth or equivalent built in;
Comfortable ride and excellent driving position, with easy access;
All these are easy. The next is harder......
I am the senior partner in a firm of long established Chartered Surveyors. Most of my work is valuing smaller properties for banks, but in a large minority of cases I am valuing property for litigation matters where the clients are paying directly for my services and I suppose need to see that their chosen professional is good enough that they charge enough to drive a decent car. Do I buy a new Ford or equivalent mainstream brand, do I buy a second hand prestige brand; or do I buy something old and interesting? I need reliability though.
Running costs are to an extent irrelevant. The Outback gives me an average of 20.4mpg over 18,000 miles and I have no trouble affording to run it.
What would you do?
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'lifestyle' estate with all the goodies in it, diesel, auto if necessary...new from discount broker or second hand, doesn't matter
so: BMW 3 series, Jag X Type, Merc C class, Audi A4..... that sort of thing
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So you wouldn?t have a Nissan Note for instance which will give you far more room in the rear seats than any of the lifestyle estates, in a smaller and cheaper package and with everything else I need included as well?
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no....my philosophy is i'm only here once, so within reason, would want something
'nice'. Everyone's different of course. What's your view?
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I can identify with this question, as a middle aged accountant I also dwell on what would be suitable as my work car. I'm sure someone will come along and say that your clients don't care what you drive (that may be true) and what really matters is choosing a car that you feel confident to use as you go about your business.
A Vauxhall Astra would do everything I ever need a car to do and most days would be better than the Volvo S80 that I do have - much easier to park, a regular challenge. Would I feel confident arriving at important meeting in an Astra.... that's more difficult to say.
How are you getting on with your A Class? Could you become a 2 x A Class family?
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I've arrived at clients that I was charging over £1000 a day in a 12 year old diesel Cavalier. I really can't see the point in buying a car to impress people, just get something that you want that meets your needs.
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I would stick with Subaru, I think they are brilliant cars and good value for money when you consider the boxer engine, full time 4wd and engineered to last a life time with very little to bother you in terms of reliability.
I find it funny when people say Jap cars are boring - how many other car companies have the courage to do what Subaru do.
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Interesting question, Espada. I suspect that in addition to your specific points you would want it to give you a certain amount of driving pleasure.
Also some clients will be interested in your car, some won't. If I were your client I'd probably want to talk cars with you if you drove something interesting (like your current Subaru), but probably not if you came in a Ford or Vauxhall unless it was a new model. Some clients might (personally I wouldn't) think you were going to charge them too much if you arrived in a BMW or Mercedes, probably less so in an Audi.
So in your position I'd either stick with Subaru - and if you like the car and the dealer, see what £15k will get you - or if I wanted a change, make a shortlist something like
Toyota Prius (new model due next spring)
Skoda Octavia
Audi A4 or VW Golf
One of the smaller Volvos
Saab 9.3
Honda Accord
None of these has a particularly strong image, and that may be just what you want.
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Easy - get the same car again. It'll be one third of your new price now.
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You're asking the question because you think the kind of car someone drives is important.
Some people do, some don't. Meh.
I wouldn't buy on a practical basis. I'd buy something I liked, and blow what anyone else thought.
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Interesting question, and i too would buy exactly the same car again, you can afford a good standard of car, but many prestige cars have become very common, yours is restrained whilst capable of outperforming and certainly outhandling most on offer at the same time looking smart but not 'in your face'.
Would you enjoy anything else quite as much, when you need to pull out of those wet junctions, you just plant the old size 11 and go, probably never giving a second thought to wheel spin and corrective handling.
Would all other cars be so reliable either.
Client impression wise i used to know a rather successful financial adviser, who in the 70's always ran Rovers and the like, as many of his older customers would have frowned upon anything not British (how quaint that viewpoint seems now, but maybe we should all have been so loyal).
In the 80's he moved over to S class MB's, by then it no longer mattered (the destruction had already begun under she) and he maintained that once you could buy the first one outright they were the cheapest large car to own, who am i to argue.
Don't suppose it matters a jot now, unless of course you were to buy the devil's chariot, a large 4x4 and your client base was rather condemning of that sort of thing.
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Don't buy:
a) something which looks you can't afford the tools for the job. Push-starting a smokey old banger outside your client's office indicates that your business is in trouble
b) Something which suggests that you are milking your clients. You may love that new Rolls-Royce you can afford after playing the stock options carefully, but your clients may resent the suspicion that they are paying too too much if you can afford it
c) Something which is an inappropriate tool for the job. Driving 200 miles on the motorway in a bubblecar may be your idea of fun, but your clients will be unimpressed that you have worn yourself out before you reached their premises. Similarly, a stretch Hummer that takes two weeks to park will win you few friends, because it suggests you are not focused on the job.
Do buy: something which fits within the same sort of acceptable parameters as you would apply to choosing a business suit. Neat and tidy, but neither too flash nor too dowdy, so that you don't stand out too much from the crowd. Your clients are hiring you for your professional skills, not your showmanship.
Beyond those constraints, choose what you like, and keep it in a businesslike condition. That may mean anything between say a 6yo Ford or Toyota and a new Audi A6, but if you stay within that sort of parameters your personal grooming and demeanour will be hundreds of times more important in the first impressions you make before people get to know your professional abilities.
Of course, if you're at the top of your game (or close enough to it), and/or have enough self-confidence, you can ignore all the rules and do whatever you like. Ken Clarke was a scruffy dresser, which became part of his beer-and-fags appeal as a more human govt minister; and members of the aristocracy frequently dress in old clothes and drive bangers because they don't need to give a toss what anyone else thinks. A lawyer I knew prospered despite driving around in a prehistoric VW camper which appeared to have been painted at the very height of psychadelia, and it worked for him because his work was good and he had the persona to carry it off.
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Don't buy new , try a 1 year old Freelander Deisel Auto HSE spec then 12month old Jaguar then 3yr old Merc S class ( with history )
If still undecided
Go back and find a new ie unsold 2008 model Subaru Spec B 3 litre
and enjoy it
By the way what would you want for the Outback?
Happy Motoring
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I thought this would be an interesting thread.
I have no intention of selling the Outback. It fulfils all of my desires car wise at the moment in terms of performance, built quality, number of features, comfort etc. I would however like more internal space in a shorter vehicle and would also like it to be cheaper to run, even though I can afford to run it without thinking about it.
However, if the car was prised from me, the question is what would I get in its place. I don't want a standard 'prestige brand' necessarily as I like the anonymity of a Subaru and I am not sure if driving up in a Citroen C1 would be a good advert for my firm, despite my really liking that car.
Yes, I could have another Outback, and I could also revert the new Forester, assuming it is as comfortable as the old model which really has a superb driving position.
Someone asked about the A-class. It is running very well and averaging about 31mpg, which for our family, style of journey and location is excellent. If my wife drove my car, she would average 16mpg, not my 20.4mpg. In fact the A-class would suit me very well as a replacement as long as the drivers seat had lumbar support. Ours does not and I find the driving position odd unless I put a cushion behind my back.T
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As an aside, I generally don't wear suits for work (and in the Ken Clarke mode) tend to dress tidily but just trousers and open neck shirt, so I hope people use me because I am a good surveyor and not because I drive an interesting car!
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I have no idea what to suggest but reading through reminded me of a very tempting buy I saw last week: a Legacy Saloon Spec B, 18K miles, 18 months old - £8995.
If only........
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Funny you should say that Espada. I live in a fairly valuable house. It is not a posh house, don't get me wrong, but it is on one these dreadful so called "executive housing" developments where cloned versions of the same families live cheek by jowl. Most of the guys seem to drive German company cars and the wives drive some kind of SUV which clearly they need in order to deal with the rigours of the Cheshire plain. The morning uniform is the dark suit and the attache case.
We, on the other hand, keep funny hours are rarely to be seen in anything smarter than clean jeans and drive slightly non-U cars.
This is clearly seen by some as cultural subversion which I quite enjoy given that I suspect we could, if required, buy and sell most of them.
Heh heh !!
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You know Humph, as I get older, possessions take on far less importance. I used to hanker after larger and flashier attache cases but then 11 years ago I bought a nice soft leather bag in New York which lasted for over ten years, until it started to fall apart so it was replaced by a similar bag bought in Rome.
I refuse to wear suits unless it would perverse not to do so (Iam a professional after all!) and cannot contemplate buying any large SUV. I haven't bought a suit in four years and buy clothes in the inverse proportion to most wives buying habits. Do I care? No.
If it wasn't age and position, I'd have a Citroen C1 tomorrow - you can have far more fun on Manchester's roads in a C1 than you can in an M5. Its why its such an important question for me. I love cars - have done since I was eight - but alwasy want something that meets some form of perfection and that includes being something from left field. I don't want a BMW or a LandRover or a Jag. I like the Audi mentality but not the dealers, Honda are not as good as they used to be - too mainstream. In some respects, a top of the range Mondeo with all the bells and whistles would actually suit me very well.
Fortunately, my Outback shows no signs of leaving me. A mate has a four year old Outback with 75,000 miles on it and it drives like mine, and the interior has no more wear. I think I have four more years before I consider a change!
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Espada, with your dilemma I would do the following:
- You are happy with the Outback so keep it
- For the majority of work the Outback is fine so use it
- When you feel you need a "prestige" brand I'd hire one. And look into how to keep costs down now for when you need to do this - it might be cheaper than you think. I know of one hire company in Manchester that advertises in car magazines with all sorts including Ferraris!
Yes hiring costs but the costs will be less than you lose in depreciation and in changing vehicles. The Outback sounds like a nice car - you've posted on it before.
Rob
Edit: PS If the need for a more flash car is a business need, the business could cover the cost of the hire too. Well that's my opinion.
Edited by rtj70 on 30/11/2008 at 22:54
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Espada, I would buy a 10yr old Audi A6 2.8 Tiptronic and if you care about registration plate age, put a cheap vanity plate on it. Bluetooth....get a Blackberry.
And I would then spend the £10,000 change on memorable holidays!!
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I find it interesting when some of these people who drive expensive German company cars have to finance the cars themselves how their priorities and choices change. When people visit me in very expensive cars I always ask myself how much will I be contributing to that! One of my large (blue chip) clients (Director) visited me a few months ago in an old Toyota pickup with a corrugated domed cover over the back covered in straw, my IFA visits in a 10 year old Avensis with a spaceship mileage and my accountant a Porsche Carerra rag top.
I have also spent some time working from a prestigious serviced office building and everyone seemed to be in a dark suit with tie, shiny shoes and brief case. Everyone (excluding me) was dressed the same, it was just like being at school wearing the uniform. I always referred to it as the XXXXXX Comprehensive LOL
I would buy what ever I wanted to drive and not to worry what might be expected. If you feel you need to impress hire something for the day.
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Old Jap pickup and old Jap car with spaceship mileage, can be very posh. I live in an ultra affluent countryside area and you see plenty of them around, don't see many Vectras and Mondeos though!
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In my job I "should" have an audi or bmw, but I have a Legacy and I find that no-one really knows what to think about it.
That suits me.
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In my job, company car choice for a "benefit" driver last year was: Ford, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, Vauxhall, Saab, Chevrolet, Lexus, Toyota, Mazda. Basically Ford, Vauxhall groups and Toyota. Now delete all of the GM/Vauxhall and Jag/Land Rover cars.... (VX been on the fleet since I joined in 1989) and add BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Volskwagen.... yipee. ;-)
What I have not worked out is the busines need drivers had to have a Vauxhall before... we don't have them now.
Rob
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