he shouldnt have been there, but it was still her fault. she turned and she didnt look. what if yit had been a cyclist?
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In my street the cycle lanes are painted on the road outside the parking slots. There isn't that much spare space and they are too narrow really, might as well not be there.
The advantage of two-wheelers, motorised or not, in town is that they can fit between lines of cars or undertake by riding down the gutter. In the latter case extreme caution is essential, not only because cars may suddenly turn left or pull in to the kerb to park, but because someone may open a car door, all without checking their mirrors. It's very easy for drivers to do and potentially lethal to cyclists.
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he shouldnt have been there but it was still her fault. she turned and she didnt look. what if yit had been a cyclist?
Exactly. Driving without due care and attention?
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Exactly. Driving without due care and attention?
I agree deplorable driving!
Undertaking when the car was already indicating left, what if it had been a bus or truck?
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Sounds here like the moped rider was in a no win situation.
Some say they shouldn't have been riding on the sycle path, ok, maybe technically against the law, but aren't mopeds speed limited to 30 mph? in which case the rider would be in a situation where they were constantly being overtaken, a dangerous position to be in when on 2 wheels, and so decided to use the safest part of the road, in this case the cycle path.
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Indicating alone doesn't automatically give right of way!
You also need to consider how much you're daughter is going to pay the moped rider.
If it is a high amount, may be better going thru insurance. Her next premium may not go up that much.
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It sounds like the dreaded "left hook", where a driver overtakes a cyclist then slows and swings across their path. The circumstances of this incident may have been different, of course. It is not unknown for inexperienced moped riders to exhibit plank behaviour, by riding faster than the driver, whilst on the nearside. But it could be that the 4 wheeler didn't see, or discounted the 2 wheeler. Unfortunately most cycle lanes are worse than useless. Mere painted tokens.
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I think that we're jumping to conclusions on this one... I'm not convinced that she is at fault at all... so before we make any more assumptions can the OP please clarify this:
Did she overtake the moped before starting indicating/turning?
I have a different take to some of you... I suspect that she was driving down an open road, had not passed anything in the cycle lane and indicated left and started to cross into the drive and the moped had come up behind her in the cycle lane, catching her up as she slowed down, and had not seen her indicate and proceeded to undertake her... if its that scenario I'd say he was to blame, not her.
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I have a different take to some of you... I suspect that she was driving down an open road had not passed anything in the cycle lane and indicated left and started to cross into the drive and the moped had come up behind her in the cycle lane catching her up as she slowed down and had not seen her indicate and proceeded to undertake her... if its that scenario I'd say he was to blame not her.
Thats where we differ B308. I always blame anyone who is making a turning move. Its your responsibility to check your mirrors are clear when changing position.
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Its your responsibility to check your mirrors are clear when changing position.
In addition I turn my body and look over my shoulder to minimise blind spots. However, several passengers have asked me why I do this, so I assume it's not common practice. I find it's an invaluable technique when changing lanes on motorways and other dual carriageways ~ and when turning into drives etc.
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cycle paths are an absolute joke and probably caused this.
what kind of idiots put a cycle lane that runs across people driveways. Normally they run along the side of a dual carriageway or something.
And as for mopeds being allowed to use them - utter madness.
probably is her fault but really paths should be for walking on, everything else on the road.
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>>what kind of idiots put a cycle lane that runs across people driveways.<<
A Psyco-path? ;-)
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>> Its your responsibility to check your mirrors are clear when changing position. In addition I turn my body and look over my shoulder to minimise blind spots. However several passengers have asked me why I do this so I assume it's not common practice. I find it's an invaluable technique when changing lanes on motorways and other dual carriageways ~ and when turning into drives etc.
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I do as well!
Having ridden motorcycles its a habit ive got into,(called 'the lifesaver') and I also carry it over to cars.
Ill also admit to having my window slightly open in wet weather - not just to keep the windows demisted, but also to smell diesel on the roads - another lifesaver I use on motorcycles!
My daughter, who is learning to drive, also looks over her shoulder, and was asked by her instructor why she felt the need to do it and she said she doesnt want to miss any other traffic in her mirrors....!
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Just for the record, AE, I do as well... ex biker as well... but if the moped has come up to the vehicle which was clearly signalling and had not "just been overtaken" by it, then I feel the majority of blame lies with the moped rider, not the car driver... whilst you are allowed to go up the inside and between vehicles when riding a motorbike you should clearly be doing so at such a speed that will not contribute to having an accident and be fully aware of what that vehicle is likely to do, as applies to any other road user...
Until we get a reply from Normy, I'll reserve my judgement on the scenario.
Edited by b308 on 29/11/2008 at 08:43
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Rule 163 of the Highway Code:- 'only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so '.This applies to cyclists and motorcyclists,no mention of mopeds.However I would also think the car driver bears some responsibility to ensure nothing is coming down the cyclepath prior to turning,so 50/50.
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Thanks for your interest everyone.
Just to clarify a couple of things, my daughter's house is on the left about 30 yards before a crossroads with traffic lights, she had been stationary in the traffic queue about 30 feet before her drive, she started to indicate left as she moved off.
She did indeed look over her shoulder a couple of times and looked in her near side mirror, and when I asked her why she didn't see the moped she said it wasn't there!
Luckily the lady in the car behind my daughter stopped and she said the moped passed her 'quickly' and that it was in the cycle path.
My daughter has the lady's details. The moped rider hasn't been in contact as yet.
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Mmm, I'd say that the moped rider is at least partly to blame, if not totally... he has undertaken the vehicle behind her at what sounds like excessive speed and was not watching what other vehicles were doing... other than deliberately crossing into the cycle lane as soon as she'd crossed the lights thus forcing him to slow down I can't see what she could have done...
Tell him to get knotted and use the witness. I suspect it'll probably end up as a 50/50, though...
(BTW I think Moped riders are governed by the same rules as motorbikes, aren't they?)
Edited by b308 on 29/11/2008 at 15:59
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Unless the cycle path is legally usable by mopeds then I think there is a case for the accident being 100% the fault of the moped rider. The actions of the car driver were not vicarious.
If the car driver had been travelling in excess of the speed limit and had mounted the pavement, and in so doing, crashed into the moped, then I think it would be a different case.
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Whose fault it is when something like this happens is not really the point. It matters far less than the damage to someone's bike, car or organism.
I once saw a lady in a Polo, in crawling nose-to-tail late afternoon traffic going down Clerkenwell Road, start to turn left just in time to be clipped on the front wing by a pushbike courier who was going very fast down the gutter. He was deflected over a high kerb, just missed going through a plate glass pub window and crashed into a Rombout's coffee sign or similar a few yards down the pavement, out of my sight. He was shaken but not seriously hurt, and his bike was finished for the time being, needing a front wheel at the very least.
It may have been the lady's fault for (like most of us) not scanning her n/s door mirror more consistently, but I doubt very much that that was the courier's first thought. Like me, he probably felt that it was more his own fault for going at a risky speed in risky circumstances.
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Whose fault it is when something like this happens is not really the point. It matters far less than the damage to someone's bike car or organism.
I agree, Lud, but in this case both have come out reasonably in one peice... perhaps both of them may have learnt something from it as well?
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