tinyurl.com/5phvqj
From the report, it appears as if this guy was a serial speeder. Not only had he been caught speeding on 5 separate occasions (in passenger vehicles), but he had also been disciplined for tampering with a speed limiter! How he was still allowed to drive a coach, I have no idea.
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And considering the number thet were killde and maimed (at least three lost limbs) 5 years was quite a let-off -especially given his responsibilities as a professional coach driver. And only a three year ban! (Which will be up by the time he leaves prison).
He should have got 5 years for every deadperson and 3 years for everyone injured. And a life ban from ever holding a PSV license again.
Sorry for the rant - but I feel very strongly about stupid ignorant irresponsible so-called proffessionals like this.
I only hope the victims sue the backside off the coach company for contributory negligence.
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Why was it only the driver in the dock? Given his track record, it seems astonishing that the management of National Express were not hauled in to answer charges relating to their role in allowing such a poor driver to continue carrying passengers. Maybe they had taken action, maybe not, but it's hard to believe that they didn't have a case to answer.
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NowWheels. Very well said,I totally agree. The driver deserves the worst possible punishment in this terrible case of course.
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If you want to see rabid right wing views on crime and punishment, look at some of the case-specific groups on facebook and the Tarantino-esque tortures some people demand for the crims!
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I agree with NW, Why have national express not been hauled over the coals for what *appears* to be very poor employee vetting and disciplinary procedures. Tampering with a speed limiter? on a PSV? surely that's sackable. One wonders why he was so keen to make up lost time? Pressure from management perhaps?
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I frequently use the Finchley road in NW London, the major route for National Express coaches in and out of London. I routinely see them driving at speed , too fast for the conditions. I once took a photo on a mobile phone of one coach stopped at lights with a golf ball sized chunk ripped out of the shoulder on a rear tyre . Scary. Fact, their published timetable for the journey from Golders Green station to Stansted airport is about the same time as it takes a car to make it .
Edited by motorprop on 28/11/2008 at 09:55
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I am not commenting on this tragic case but in 2001 we used the overnight coach to get to London for the Eurostar (and then back again 10 days later). The speed the coach going went and the way driven was a bit frightening at times especially roundabouts.
Coming back a lady got taken ill and we needed an ambulance which delayed us a lot. They then used some very fast driving and some common sense to get back almost on schedule: (1) they drove down some windy country lanes faster at night than I would have driven the car, (2) did not stop where nobody was due to get on and off. But we were at least 1.5 hours behind schedule to begin with.
After that journey I think I'll avoid the coaches... My father was a coach driver (sometimes for National Express and he was a good driver).
Edited by rtj70 on 28/11/2008 at 10:50
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National Express coaches are the only huge vehicles I ever see in the third lane on motorways. Grrrr.
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Bear in mind that five years is 60 months.
A guilty plea reduces that by a third. So now it's 40 months.
"Good behaviour" will reduce that by half. So now it's 20 months.
And the time he spent on remand until the trial is taken from that, which looks to be about ten months.
So he could be serving a total of ten months, and be out next October.
I'd be glad if someone with more knowledge of the legal system could correct this, but I think it's right, from reading the magistrate's blog.
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Dipstick, I'm not sure what you mean in this case by a "magistrate's blog", because Rooney was not tried in a magistrate's court. The trial was in Oxford Crown Court, where he was sentenced to five years by Mr Justice Gross, the presiding judge of the Southeastern Circuit Court.
Note that the five years is the sentence arrived at after the calculations, which will include a number of factors such as the guilty plea. That five years will probably be a third lower than he would have received without a guilty plea, so it's reasonable to assume that if he hadn't pleaded guilty he'd have got 7-and-a-half years.
Next thing, I haven't seen any reports that he was remanded in custody before the trial, and a google news search for it throws up no hits: news.google.co.uk/news?q=Philip+Rooney+remand
So, he has a 60 month sentence to serve, and he will be eligible to apply for parole after 30 months of that, which takes to May of 2011, not to October 2009.
Parole is not automatic. It depends on a number of factors, including good behaviour in prison, and addressing his offending behaviour. If he satisfies the parole board, he will be released on license, subject to a variety of restrictions.
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Thanks NW.
By the Magistrate's Blog I meant the intriguing online window into legal affairs opened by Bystander, who produces a well written and understandable blog as a magistrate on many legal affairs.
From your description, the five years is the figure arrived at after reduction - I took it to be the opposite, and the five years was the headline figure before reduction.
I won't link, because it's not motoring related, (although many of his entries are) but if you were to look at his entry for February 23, 2008, you can see what I mean.I may have misintepreted what he is saying there.
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I thought they can't go to 3rd lane! Was it a 3-lane motorway?
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Yes. That's my point entirely, movilogo. They're not supposed to but they often do, in my experience.
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Would you say then that Coach drivers are more dangerous and less skilled than car drivers?
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They have the skills, but just don't put them into practice. I've seen some abhorrant and dangerous driving from coach drivers and NE has a pretty poor record with crashes and fatalities.
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Slightly off topic but I feel I have to address the balance.
I go down to London fairly often (might be going again in two weeks time) and usualy get the train but if its last minute I get the coach as its far cheaper. I always get the Stagecoach Megabus. The drivers have always been extremely professional and never seem to be brake the speed limit according to my sat nav (on phone).
I don't use NE so I cannot comment but the impression I get from Stagecoach judging by the drivers is they take any offence extremely seriously. Touch wood tonight no Megabus has been involved in a serious accident as far I know and there at least 100 on our roads.
Also with NE often the coaches are subcontracted they have NE liverly on them but they are not owned and run by them quite a lot of the time, this also makes bad drivers harder to manage.
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I last went on a National Express coach in 2001. Most frightening journey ever. And the drivers did speed unfortunately. And approached junctions and roundabouts too fast. Might have been unlikely on that trip to/from London (and then on to Paris and finally Florence).
But the drivers will be under pressure to keep to schedules unfortunately.
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I remember years ago coming back from Paris on a coach from Paris he had gone down the M1 to back to Manchester butt he M6 was shut which meant getting of at Sheffield. He then decided to take one of the passes (think it was the Woodhead but not sure) he was going so fast round those twisty bends on the pennines one of the back wheels clipped the barrier, at this point the tutors shouted at the driver to slow down. The coach company was a well known one based in the South East which the people organising the event had put on.
Put me off coaches for a long time but my recent experiences with Megabus are good at least in terms of driving standards. Althoguh they sent a coach without toilets so I did have to ask the driver to let me off at Watford Gap services so I could use the toilet.
As for Stagecoach in Manchester well the drivers always seem to speed, on the night bus when the road is empty I have clocked it doing at least 45mph down a 30 :(. I've always said on high frequency routes drivers should not have to stick to a time table, this should discourage speeding.
Then there was another bus company which is now banned they employed lots of poorly trained Polish drivers who did not know the area. It was more than twice as quick as Stagecoach but I diced with death every time I went on those buses and in the end one of the bus drivers didn't see a cherry picker and crashed straight into him, he lost his life and the bus company was banned due to their operational history.
I would have thought NE should now make a public statement saying they are doing things to ensure this won't happen again.
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Quite frankly a bullet would be too good for this idiot.
MD
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Rattle - the only reason Megabus feels safe is because they're so slow you're virtually going backwards anyway. Joining the M6 at about 25mph is not an experience I care to repeat. London - Paddington via Megabus is my most HATED journey ever. Freezing cold + uncomfortable. A crash might have livened things up.
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Not sure on this, I may well be wrong, but are NE actually the operators of the coaches? I had it in my mind that the coaches are operated by independent companies that supply the vehicle and the driver.
Hence there is every likely hood that the operator has been hauled up before the Traffic Commissioner at a public inquiry. It is also likely that the driver will have to apply to the TC to get his licence back!!!
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From what I can work out it is a franchise. Sometimes NE will just give the job to another company (for a payment) and that company will use their own livered vehicles. A lot of the time NE franchise their coaches so it is operated by a private firm but with NE livery on the coach. I think NE also operate coaches directly, they also own a large of number of local bus companies in the UK mainly round the West Midlands I think.
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Not sure on this I may well be wrong but are NE actually the operators of the coaches? I had it in my mind that the coaches are operated by independent companies that supply the vehicle and the driver.
Judging by the comments on the original link at the top of the thread then that is indeed the case.
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Five years is too lenient,about ten years ago we were on a coach trip in Turkey driving through
a desert on little more than a dirt track, i was sat in the seat right behind the driver and it was
a scary experience with him overtaking 3/4 cars a time with oncoming traffic with two wheels
off the track, i was younger then but had i been with the family now i would have had a go.
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National Express tend to play low wages - and unfortunately this is reflected in the quality of staff they have. A Stagecoach operation such as Megabus or the Oxford tube pay pay significantly and they are very choosy about who drives their vehicles, especially so in the case of the Oxford tube. Not all coach companies have bad drivers in my opinion.
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