Misses, as mentioned on other thread, thinks she got a ticket going by a 30 camera which flashed at her tonight.
She is a new driver ( Jan this year ) and is sweating it, ive only told her that now she is on notice license-wise. She says that her speedo was somewhere between 35 and 40 and knowing its rough accuracy, id say she prob went through at about 35-36.
Is that likely to be an SP30, £60 fine and 3 points? And new drivers have 6 to play with?
I got an insurance quote and it changes by £5 a month with the presumed punishment so no real drama there atleast.
|
If she got caught then the speed was likely to be 36 plus. I know it is easy to do, I always stick to the speed limits and still worried about one myself even though it has been over 14 days and saw no flash.
It might be worth her buying a satnav which warns of speed cameras and also limits and tell her to stick to those limits even if it seems too slow.
|
Im actually having a laugh about it because she is a pretty slow driver and ive taken great delight in reminding her that ive been driving 11 years and never had a ticket - Im trying to get the balance between making sure she doesnt do it in the future and not letting her get too depressed about it.
Ive warned her about limits - she tends to speed up nearing limit signs when exiting slow zones for instance ( just how my dad got caught by a mobile unit ) which is just a bit of slack appearing in her driving now she is more relaxed behind the wheel. I told her I hope it focuses the mind.
Stupid thing is, she drives past this camera 4 times a day, so she should know better.
|
she is a pretty slow driver >>
This is precisely why there is such a resentment of speed cameras. Even slow drivers get fined for something which, I dare say, plod would just give a ticking off for, if he hadn't been consigned to a mountain of paperwork and replaced by a camera.
But of course speeding is now a heinous crime for which the slightest offence must be penalised harshly - and for new drivers such as your missus risk the loss of licence, livelihood, etc. out of all proportion. Just my HO.
My nephew - also a new driver - needs a licence for his job but has 1 SP30 and now drives everywhere terrified at 20mph!
|
|
|
|
Never mind satnav, it's just a pointless complication. Just back off a couple of mph, learn the subtle differences. There's a pleasure in going past these things over the limit but not fast enough to set them off. It's a skill challenge, very good for people's driving.
I'm no expert stunorthants but the chances of no NIP are quite good, and if it comes it will only be 3 points, unless the camera has by then been proven inaccurate.
Do not terrorise your poor missus by threatening a ban. Explain that there is a narrow line between officially legal and officially illegal, and that that line has nothing whatsoever to do with safety or criminality, it is just technical. Add that the important thing is proper driving, and legal vertigo, superstition and paranoia should play no part in the road behaviour of an adult.
|
>>Do not terrorise your poor missus by threatening a ban.<<
Im not that bad really, ive had my couple of digs and will leave it at that, I love her, dont want to upset the poor girl. She has just reached that new driver period where the driving becomes more natural, but the confidence goes up and awareness drops.
I think that because she has just 6 points to play with, she has to be brutally aware that given the cameras on the way to and from her workplace, she could loose her license 4 times over in one day by little lapses like tonight - its a scary thought really since its 8 miles to her work!
As such I told her that now there is no leway available and no ifs and buts about her speed are acceptable if she wants to keep her license.
She said to pass on her thanks for the quick responses and helpful info, she feels alot better now she knows whats prob gonna happen. The ticket will actually come to me first as the car is registered to me so it will be delayed in arriving in her name anyway.
How long do the points last just out of interest?
|
How long do the points last just out of interest?
Not for ever. I think some stay longer than others. Two or three years, I seem to have noticed in the case of my last three for running a red light at the Angel...
|
|
|
|
|
At a speed under 10% plus 6, i.e.under 39 mph for a 30 limit she could qualify for a speed awareness course which will be more expensive than a Conditional Offer but does not attract points. Speak to the ticket issuers to see if they are prepared to make her this offer if she wants to consider this. She may also have to travel to the nearest Course Centre.
On a clean Licence then for FPN Conditional Offer pay £60 and collect 3 points. No Court.
Under the New Driver Scheme someone passing their first test for the first 2 years, if they collect 6 points then Licence revoked and they have to start again as a Learner.
dvd
|
It makes me so paranoid, and is why I am only going to drive very locally until the two years have passed. That way I am still getting practise but hopefully not risking points due to an unknown area. One of my older customers (in her 50's) was telling me he she got 9 points.
I think speed awareness courses should be offered in all cases, education is better than just blindy giving people fines and points.
|
education is better than just blindy giving people fines and points.
But not as lucrative!!!
|
Lud, no points last less than 4 years SFAIK - that is how long you have to wait to apply to have them removed from your licence. Rattle, there isn't that much point in having a car and then limiting yourself in where you drive it is there? Why not follow your own advice to OP and buy a cheap SatNav or get out and about and concientously stick to the speed limits, like we all should but some of us don't! Your view on Speed Awareness Course is spot on - I wasn't offered one (36 in a 30 in North Wales) but I am told they are very good.
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 25/11/2008 at 06:56
|
Why is it that people who drive without paying attention to their speed always seem to drive faster rather than slower than the speed limit?
It's not as if the pedal were spring-loaded on full speed, and you had to consciously press it to go slower. So why does a right foot mysteriously press itself to the floor if you don't take action to restrain it?
|
35 and up is an NIP (I received on for 35).
Depending on area at 35 she might be offered a speed awareness course. If offered take it and you avoid the points and the insurance hike. You are only allowed one course every three years.
|
It's a sad state of affairs when we have come to regard 35mph as racing along.
My area is slowly being covered by 20mph signs. Might as well go the whole hog and re introduce the man with the red flag as well.
|
|
In a small town near me there are lots of flashing cameras, but only one `mechanism` this gets moved from one camera housing to another.
|
|
|
Get yourself a Road Angel Professional. A great piece of kit. Even on familiar roads it's so easy to stray over the limit despite what the saints say. The RA will make sure you never forget where the cameras are.
'I'm convinced they're a major contribution to road safety'. Who said that and in what advert? A virtual gold cup with knobs on to the first correct answer. (Here's hoping I can remember!)
|
"A major contribution to road safety"
Sir Robert Mark - Goodyear G800 (or was it Grand Prix S) tyres IIRC
Edited by OldSock on 25/11/2008 at 10:20
|
|
That was quick! The cup goes to Oldsock.
|
|
|
|
Why is it that people who drive without paying attention to their speed always seem to drive faster rather than slower than the speed limit?
Probably because when not concentrating on strictly adhering to the speed limit, most people, I would have thought, will subconciously drift towards the maximum speed at which they feel comfortable. If you're not thinking about the limit for the limit's sake, why go any slower than necessary? (Where "necessary" is the speed that "feels right").
I can think of two reasons - either or both of which may be present - why the speed that feels right is more likely to be above than below the posted limit:
1. The driver has failed to notice or properly account for some hazard that the limit was set for and so, while they have no desire to pose a hazard to anyone else, their feeling is based on poor information.
2. The limit was set lower than the maximum safe speed for that section of road under the most favourable traffic, hazard, weather etc. conditions. The prevailing conditions are favourable and the driver's feeling is spot on, perfectly safe, poses no additonal hazard to anybody, but is illegal nonetheless. (The opposite case, where the limit is set higher than the maximum safe speed under favourable conditions is, I suspect, extremely rare if not nonexistent).
In short: either the gut feeling is flawed or the limit is flawed.
There is a small minority who just don't care but I don't think you were talking about them.
|
(The opposite case where the limit is set higher than the maximum safe speed under favourable conditions is I suspect extremely rare if not nonexistent).
edge of Dartmoor, country lanes. Twisty winding roads, high hedges, leaves, horse excreta etc. National speed limit, therefore 60 mph limit..but would be hard to physically achieve that speed and not safe at 40mph
|
edge of Dartmoor country lanes.
Ah - you mean where I grew up and learnt to drive. How could I have forgotten? Yes, I do remember some utterly unattainable NSLs there. As I recall the roads on the top of dartmoor where more scary though. More than enough visibility to achieve 60 in places, but the sheep haven't read the green cross code.
Bit of an oversight but I don't think it affected what I was saying. Wonder how I forgot though - must have been living in the East Anglian flatlands too long.
|
edge of Dartmoor country lanes.
I used to know Dartmoor a bit in the fifties. Roads on the top often had fair visibility (give or take thick weather) but were bumpy and had a lot of choppy crests and dips owing, I suppose, to the rocky terrain. Same sort of thing in the West of Ireland. Any attempt to go fast will result in great discomfort, bottoming and jumping about, with of course some loss of control too.
|
discomfort bottoming and jumping about with of course some loss of control too.
Oh lud ludl lud lud lud.... such lack of finesse
There is - near me a perfect example of a hump back bridge. I can (and do) get all four wheels off the ground and land it feather smooth with nary a crash of suspension. And all at a mere 10mph over the speed limit.
Ok at the precise moment the wheels are off the ground there is some lack of control. (the steering or brakes don't work) Depending on the gear I am in and angle of approach I can even make touch down one wheel first.
the only passenger discomfort in rising stomach.
|
I don't know whether I have ever had all four wheels off the ground at the same time AE - quite possibly, but all I can remember is a fellow minicabber complaining that he had seen my car lifting a wheel zapping through the curves at Vauxhall Cross - but there is a lot of difference between a favoured humpback bridge with the perfect profile for a soft landing on an otherwise smoothish road and those randomly choppy jobs in Ireland or on Dartmoor, among many other places.
I hope for your sake that the BiB and residents of Woking retain the sporting spirit once concentrated in nearby Byfleet...
|
|
The opposite case where the limit is set higher than the maximum safe speed under favourable conditions is I suspect extremely rare if not nonexistent
Try any road with a sharp bend, or one you can't see around, or a hump-backed bridge, or where ......
|
>> The opposite case where the limit is set higher than the maximum safe speed >> under favourable conditions is I suspect extremely rare if not nonexistent Try any road with a sharp bend or one you can't see around or a hump-backed bridge or where ......
That's not what I mean. I mean the case where, with everything else in your favour (traffic, weather, other hazards etc.), the maximum safe speed at every single point along the road is lower than the posted limit. That I think is quite rare (though after Westpig's reply, perhaps not quite as rare as I first suggested!)
Unless you are thinking of a reduced speed limit in place only for the length of the sharp bend, you are talking about the case where the maximum safe speed just at *some particular point* is lower than the posted limit. That's completely different and not rare at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It makes me so paranoid and is why I am only going to drive very locally until the two years have passed. That way I am still getting practise but hopefully not risking points due to an unknown area.
What risk? It's quite hard to get points from speeding if you stick to the speed limit.
|
|
|
|
|
Misses as mentioned on other thread thinks she got a ticket going by a 30 camera which flashed at her tonight.
Did it flash 1 x or 2 x?
1 x flash = no film in a Gatso
2 x Flash got 2 pictures IIRC
|
Just my tuppence worth Stu and in response to both of your current threads,
Sorry to hear of the potential speeding ticket, but it will at worst be a minor one. In any event it will should serve to make your wife more aware. She is a new driver and will make an occasional mistake. If this gives her a gentle wake up call then it will not have done any long term harm and might even help her to improve her driving techniques. Whatever happens, tell her to put it behind her and learn from it.
In response to your other thread re upgrading her car, it strikes me that for the same reasons of her relative inexperience, it might be prudent to hang fire for now. She may well have a wee bump in the next year or so. Many new drivers do, especially in Winter.
I would be inclined to encourage her to get some more miles under her belt in a car she is now used to and look at the situation again in a year or so.
Like I said, just some friendly advice.......
|
she is a pretty slow driver >>
Does this mean she does 40 in a 70 and 40 in a 30. That grates me as much as rear fog lamps ;-)
|
Nah, she is usually very good. She said last night that on entering the 30 zone a car came up the hill with full beams on, didnt turn them off at all, which blinded her for a few seconds so her normal procedure of slotting it into 3rd at the sign, then 2nd for engine braking as the hill gets steeper didnt happen and the car gathered speed as she was concentrating of trying to see the road instead.
I can see why it happned, bad luck really.
She normally does about 65 in 70 zones or just finds a nice space between some lorries.
|
her normal procedure of slotting it into 3rd at the sign then 2nd for engine braking as the hill gets steeper didnt happen and the car gathered speed as she was concentrating of trying to see the road instead.
Crikey. If you can't see where you're going, surely the instinct is to brake.
|
|
|
She said last night that on entering the 30 zone a car came up the hill with full beams on, didnt turn them off at all, which blinded her for a few seconds so her normal procedure of slotting it into 3rd at the sign, then 2nd for engine braking as the hill gets steeper didnt happen
Wish I could remember such detail.
|
|
|
|
|
>Is that likely to be an SP30, £60 fine and 3 points?
Is there a better-than-evens chance that the camera wasn't loaded?
|
Stu, if you are considering a camera detector for swmbo, could i venture to suggest popping onto fleabay and picking up one of last few ''Drivesmart'' units floating about. Should get one for £30 to £50 used but good.
You can program these with your own POI's very easily and they kick a hell of a kelly up when passing the points entered as well as known sites, they also have known mobile sites which many of the very expensive branded GPS detectors do not have.
They are large in comparison to others, but the display is prominent, and the units robust.
No fees either, drivesmart support is all but finished, but you can join an independent site if you wish to do regular updates for a small fee.
You know where i live, feel free to pop in and have a butchers at swmbo's if you like.
Its so easy though to stray over, swmbo's sure she would have triggered one of the 2 on her commute if the machine didn't annoy her every time.
|
Probably a timely wake-up call, new drivers can easily get complacent on regular routes.
SWMBO frightened me to death, when she turned right at a T junction without looking left, or even pausing. She said 'there's only a few houses down there, and nothing uses that bit of road'.
I pointed out the number of parked cars that must have driven there, and the probability of them driving out again.
She's a little more cautious now - at least when I'm in the passenger seat.
|
|
|
|
With the lower limits the key thing is not having your car in a gear that it is "trying" to speed up... mine will do 30 in 5th but it is easy for the speed to increase, so I tend to drive in 4th in a 30 limit where it will pootle along quite happily... I tend to agree with the others, Rattle, I think that you are getting a little paranoid about limits and noises that your car should or shouldn't be making! Go out for a long drive in the country and enjoy yourself!!
Fingers crossed for your missus, Stu!
|
She always does the changing down the gears, she copies it from what I do because automatics dont have much engine braking but on the Picanto in 2nd gear it holds speed on a moderate hill. She got herself a bit flustered when not being able to see where she was going, she said she doesnt know why she was going faster than she thought.
As far as I know, the camera is one of those ones with the pink flash that gets you as you approach - do these work with film or by electronic means?
Im hoping that for whatever reason my misses gets away with it but if she doesnt, valuable lesson, I fully believe in taking the time if you do the crime, minor or not, its part of being an adult.
Someone told her there is a website that can tell you if you were caught - is that true or is it hogwash like I think it prob is!?
|
She normally does about 65 in 70 zones or just finds a nice space between some lorries. >>
Just finds a space between lorries? Now that's something I wouldn't do.
|
>> She normally does about 65 in 70 zones or just finds a nice space between some lorries. >> Just finds a space between lorries? Now that's something I wouldn't do.
Not even a nice space? Comfortable stopping distance ahead and not being tailgated behind doesn't sound too bad to me.
|
since when has a trucker left a nice space? They are like nature, abhor a vacuum and expand to fill one.
|
s They are like nature abhor a vacuum....
A bit like me, I guess - let 'the missus' do it :-)
|
|
|
since when has a trucker left a nice space? They are like nature abhor a vacuum and expand to fill one.
Maybe. But with their imperfect but similar speed limiters, one trucker catching another is sometimes a very drawn out process. For one to catch another several hundred yards ahead can take quite some time. So the vacuum fills, but very slowly. And in the intervening time, while her space ahead and behind are not compromised, I can imagine Mrs stunorthants26 quite happily not bothering to play with the traffic in the fast lane.
But I am assuming I know what "nice space" meant when it was first mentioned.
|
>>in the intervening time, while her space ahead and behind are not compromised, I can imagine Mrs stunorthants26 quite happily not bothering to play with the traffic in the fast lane.<<
Exactly right - one thing that is a constant is that unless you do 85 plus, it is inevitable that there will be someone hooked to you back bumper if you dare enter the outside lane and since my misses isnt one for rushing over to Norwich, she saves stress and fuel with only a 15 minute time penalty.
|
|
|
clearly you have not driven the a14. Trucks there are closer than a railway coupling
|
clearly you have not driven the a14. Trucks there are closer than a railway coupling
.....and often side by side for miles to boot, but we'd better not start.....
;-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
We just don't like giving the car drivers too many spaces to hide in our blind spots! ;-)
|
|
|
|
Not even a nice space? Comfortable stopping distance ahead and not being tailgated behind doesn't sound too bad to me. >>
Same as any space until it gets closed up. If things go wrong I'd rather not be between two trucks!
|
>>Someone told her there is a website that can tell you if you were caught - is that true or is it hogwash like I think it prob is!? <<
It was a spoof website a couple of years ago - you put in your reg number and it comes back with a fake ticket. I just tried to find it but it appears to have been taken down.
|
Just a quick query - I need to arrange insurance for the new Sirion tomorrow, however the NIP did come through to me and ive sent it off incriminating my dearest darling ( 36 mph apparently ). Question is, since we havent yet had a conditional offer back, do we need to declare it yet, as the form did say that Northants does run these workshops and they will be offered if you meet the criteria.
I looked up the criteria and it suggested a first offense in the 35-39 range would be eligable which is fine, but what do I tell the insurance company since I dont know the outcome yet? Do we declare the SP30 even if she gets the workshop offer with no points?
|
Declare it exactly as it is and let the insurance co decide. My good lady has 6 points and it didn't seem to make any difference to a recent renewal... perhaps £10-£20.
David
|
I was intending doing the insurance online but I will ring them to find out how it should be recorded.
What I dont know is if you do the workshop, does it still count as an SP30 or is it more of a caution? Or should I arrange the insurance and then ring them as soon as we know what the outcome is and make an amendment?
Technically, all that has happened is that I have been asked to identify the driver as the registered keeper at this point.
|
|
Its a caution.... when i went on a course, I was told I didnt have to tell the insurance... if I was you I would wait to see what the outcome is before getting carried away!
|
|
|
|
|
