I posted in the techincal forum last week about a problem that I had with low oil pressure on my 05 Passat TDI.
In short, two weeks ago I was 50 or so miles from home when a STOP - Oil Pressure - Engine Off! - Owner's Manual red warning came up on the MFD. Having ignored a coolant warning on my Golf 6 years ago I stopped straight away, followed the instructions in the owner's manual, and ended up calling the RAC to recover me back to Manchester.
The patrolman didn't even bother to start the engine and winched the car onto his foldout trailer. The car was then given a follow on tow a few days later to my local VW garage.
They diagnosed two small leaks from pipes, and something called the 'rocker' (?), which they fixed. The warning light persisted, so they then decided to check the strainer in the sump, and quoted me a price, which I accepted. It was when it was stripped down that they discovered the spindle in the oil pump had sheared. I was told that as a good will gesture VW UK would pay the close to £700 bill for the part, and 30% towards the labour.
This was fixed on Monday of this week, but they discovered a 'rattle' like noise that wasn't previously present. It was explained to me that it could be consequential damage to the engine, and that if it was VW UK would pay for the part, and again 30% towards the labour. However, there was also a possibility that it could be the flywheel in the gearbox that had gone, in which case I would be liable for the full cost. Apparently the noise has the technicians split in opinion.
I had a call last night to say that they had decided to strip the gearbox down first, and found nothing, so they will be looking at the engine today. Some of the technicians now think that it might be a loose belt or something rather than engine damage. They say that the noise is obvious up to 2000rpm, and then dies off, which is why they suspected a gearbox fault before engine damage.
Now the bill for the work that I had authorised, that being the replacement of the leaking pipes, the rocker cover, a glow plug, and the checking of the strainer came to around £700. I asked last night whether I had been charged for their stripping of the gearbox. I was told not, but that the final cost would obviously depend on what the problem was. I asked if they thought that the noise indicated a major, potentially dangerous though, and the response was that they didn't know.
Being the cynical type, I'm expecting a large bill, so am seeking a bit of advice in these forums as to how to deal with any monstrous bill that may come my way. As far as I am aware I didn't authorise the stripping of the gearbox, nor the engine. I was told on Monday that the oil pressure warning problem had been fixed, but that they needed to investigate a noise which wasn't previously there, and that VW would pay for any consequential damage.
What I don't know at the moment is if I will be charged for the stripping of the gearbox, if the problem turns out to be with the engine.
The car is actually out of warranty by 16,000 miles. It's done 76,000 miles and was 3 years and 6 days old when the pump failed. I'm wondering why VW would be willing to stump up £700 for a pump as a 'good will' gesture, and also replace the engine, should it have been damaged. They've no need to, so I'm wondering if this is a known problem.
I'd just like advice on how to deal with any charges that they throw at me for investigating this noise, which isn't something that I asked them to do. They told me they needed to investigate for damage, which I assumed to be from their repair. Should I have said no at that point?
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2 things....
1/ with a known engine oil pump fault, where on earth did they get the idea the 'new' noise was a gearbox problem?
they needed to get the engine sorted before diagnosing other unrelated faults!
2/ < >
why on earth did they not do an oil pressure check?
thats the 1st thing to do surely? I would say most of the resulting engine damage was done whilst they were running the car on the ramp with no oil flow!
that said I had an engine seize within 5 seconds of the 1st flash of an oil pressure lamp.....
I wouldnt be over happy with the treatment of the car...
what to pay? hard one, as the car is out of warranty and VW needn't pay a penny, unless it is a known problem?
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Could you find the engine designation - it's on a sticky label on the cambelt cover; the inside front cover of the service booklet and on the side of the spare wheel well. It will probably be a three letter code - if it's BHW then there's a problem...
659.
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why on earth did they not do an oil pressure check? thats the 1st thing to do surely? I would say most of the resulting engine damage was done whilst they were running the car on the ramp with no oil flow!
That's what I thought. Given the handbook states that you should stop the engine, and don't even idle it, I would have thought that they would have some way to test without having to start the engine.
if it's BHW then there's a problem...
what would that problem be?
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Oil pump drive failure.
659.
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Oil pump drive failure. 659.
so your saying its a common problem?
if so, the 1st thing a VW dealership should have done, is to drop the sump/removed the oil pump/what ever is needed... to check the drive hadnt failed... Id want to know that a trained tech looked at this car, before letting an apprentice start the engine.......
Im still in disbelief they looked at the gearbox before the engine!!
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It's not necessarily a common problem - it all depends on whether the engine has balancer shafts and whether they are chain or gear driven.
What's the engine code?
659.
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What's the engine code?
No idea, as the car is still with VW.
They are going to replace the engine. VW are paying for the engine, and contributing 30% to the labour cost, leaving me with an additional £500 to pay.
Not really too happy about that, as I have to pay £700 for the work done last week, which was replacing a couple of pipes, a glow plug, and examining the strainer in the sump, all of which seems to be pointless work given they are replacing the engine.
However, I suppose that they could turn around and say that the damage could have been caused at the moment the warning appeared on the MFD, and lump me with the entire bill for the engine.
Thoughts?
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Undoubtedly lousy luck but tbh, £1,200 for a new engine (and a warranty on that?) bearing in mind what I've seen here been quoted on for example Renault Espaces and other makes major failures it "almost" seems reasonable. You might even get some money off that if you put forward your case for wasted time (and money) as you have here. I wonder if this happened 12 months down the road and another 20,000 miles what the cost would then have been.
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My thoughts are you are getting a £4000 ish brand new engine for £1200.
As you say the car is out of warranty so VW do not need to help at all.
Perhaps its a good example of customer care or its a known fault which the dealer on your behalf has pushed VW to sort out.
Ask the dealer to charge you at warranty labour rate usually about 25% less than normal retail rate (ask nice as they dont have to do this especially if you have agreed to the charge already .... credit crunch ... Christmas soon .. claim you are really poor)
BTW speak directly to service manager / general manager and not the receptionist unless you get on really well with 1 of them.
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If you can give the engine code (if you haven't got the vehicle, it's on the front inside cover of the service book) and if it shows up as a failure-prone engine, I can give you a link to a website which will support your case - VAG have introduced modifications following many major failures of the oil pump drive.
"£4000 engines" don't exist - that's a notional retail figure, inflated to feign generosity. If VAG fit a new engine it will cost them about £500 + labour at a basic rate. I hope they don't screw it up. In my experience, the most reliable VAG vehicles are those which get the least dealer "attention" and careful routine work from an interested independent or owner.
659.
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"£4000 engines" don't exist - that's a notional retail figure inflated to feign generosity. >>
659FBE,
Aren't all figures notional in this case?
The OP has no access to the £500 engine of which you speak, so it may as well not exist.
Although I don't doubt that it does exist, if that makes sense. :)
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My thoughts are you are getting a £4000 ish brand new engine for £1200. As you say the car is out of warranty so VW do not need to help at all. Perhaps its a good example of customer care or its a known fault which the dealer on your behalf has pushed VW to sort out.
Exactly what I was thinking. As I said, they could easily have charged me for the engine, and not just 70% of the labour.
Quite by coincidence I received a call from same garage about 9 hours before it broke down 2 weeks ago, asking if I wanted to sell the car as they had buyers. I was cynical and took it as them wanting new sales, given the reported decline in new car sales.
Now the car has failed, has had the gear box stripped, new engine etc, I'm not convinced it would be wise to keep it, so I will see what's on offer. When my golf went belly up 6 years ago, 4 years old with 140,000 on the clock, and a broken engine, they gave me £4000 for it.
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" I'm not convinced it would be wise to keep it"
Bonkers, I'm afraid. You and VW have just spent a shed load of money to keep it on the road, and the parts fitted will have at least a 12 month gtee. Keep it for the next year, and then take a view.
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