I suspect there are going to be a lot of Land Rover staff and dealers staff unemployed next year. Deservedly based on my experience.
I have bought new Land Rovers for over 30 years (2 RR, 4 Disco 2 Freelanders) and have the usual reliability and build quality scars. I was going to buy a new Freelander but have concluded the company and dealers may now be the worst in the UK so have bought a Honda.
I rang a number of dealers centred on my home town having already checked price and availablity via brokers. 3 use obscene profit making numbers...a real no-no for my generation. 1 didn't answer. 1 had a receptionist whose use of language led me to terminate the call. 2 had no sales staff to take the call...1 of whom had a sales manager who 'doesn't take calls from customers'!
With the 4 sales staff I spoke with 2 didn't know the answer to a basic question...'which is the cheapest model with climate control?' (what do they do all day?). 2 tried to obfuscate (they presumably call it 'negotiate') over delivery times....apparently don't they read newspapers.
Then the critcal issue of price. In no instance did they even hint at a discount over the current Land Rover 'offers'. When pressed the best price was over £2300 more than a few clicks reveal (again what do they do all day? I'd expect anyone purporting to be a salesman to know his product and his competitors). Made more galling given that dealer was actually the franchise supplier via a broker I'd had a price from.
I raised the experience with Land Rover senior management. The response was disinterest and that dealers are 'independent and not under their control'.
I know others will have siimilar experiences with other marques...I have relatives who will never (again) buy Saab or Mitsubishi because of bad experiences with dealers. But I do think Land Rover are the worst . In part because they don't realise they should be trying harder given the product profile and that times have changed.
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Don't they know there's a recession on?
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Not just the dealers but the product as well. My dau bought a W reg freelander 5 years ago and its cost me over £5k in repairs since. Transfer Box, Viscous Coupling, 2 clutches, Head Gasket plus various services and "minor" repairs. All repaired at an independent due to main dealer costs. She was told not to buy one by my local spanners but badge snobbery took over. Thanks to Top Gear she is thinking of getting a vintage HiLux next year when she finally pays off the loan on the Freelander. A neighbour got rid of his RR due to complete indifference by the local LR dealer to the 22 visits it needed for repairs in its first 2 years of life. Calls to LR HQ were met with the response that the dealers were independent!!! He bought a V8 Cherokee Jeep and has vowed never to buy LR again. Good luck to the new Indian owner - I hope he visits every LR dealer in the country to see what a lemon he's paid for.
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I think it depends on where you are. My brother in law lives in Liverpool, yet travels to Lakeland Land Rover in Cumbria, purely because the local LR dealers are useless. The local LR dealers don't understand people who buy Land Rovers for the purpose they are made - just Little Miss WAG who wants the latest RR Sport.....
So, if you want a decent LR dealer - Lakeland Land Rover in Torver are the people to visit...
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T H White nr swindon does it for me. fantastic dealer who really knows about customer service. Only landrover dealer to give me a quote within hours of calling & delivering a car when promised with all the extra's as requested including some minors details like Rubber matts & a full tank. www.thwhitelandrover.co.uk.
I have had very bad experience with jaguar dealers as well & customer service being some of the worst . I can sympathise with your experiences but it goes for a lot of dealers . They are getting there cumupance now!
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the call. 2 had no sales staff to take the call...1 of whom had a sales manager who 'doesn't take calls from customers'!
That is just mind-boggling. If management can't be bothered to speak to a prospect, they really do deserve to fail.
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Someone I know who works at one says their LR dealership is doing very well considering the depression.
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This came up a few years ago, locally, and I started a thread about it.
The whole story here, but I thought I'd repost The Letter...
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=29997&...e
OPEN LETTER TO THE MANAGING DIRECTOR OF LAND ROVER SOUTH AFRICA
I own a Range Rover TD6 bought new in April 2003. The registration number is CA 499408. It has done some 44 000 km, it is an expensive and obviously high-end vehicle and is still relatively new. Whenever the vehicle has a problem I am amazed anew by the disinclination of Land Rover South Africa to communicate in any way.
The vehicle was initially delivered with a major steering defect that caused the whole vehicle to vibrate heavily when being turned on a camber. I was informed by Land Rover employees that the problem was common with the Range Rover which prevented the vehicle being replaced, It took a dozen aggravating workshop visits and a calendar year for Land Rover to eventually repair the vehicle. The indifference and lack of communication shown by Land Rover SA was appalling and only by threatening to go public did I eventually get someone to speak to me and explain what was being done.
And now?.
Friday 25th February 2005. Vehicle breaks down near Victoria West with what appeared to be front transmission problem. Vehicle remains under full warranty. Land Rover Assist arranges for vehicle to be towed to Beaufort West {120 odd kms - ian) and advises me that it will be sent to the nearest dealership, George {~ 150kms - ian), within two days, for repair. Tow truck employee volunteers that this is the umpteenth Land Rover product they have recovered to Beaufort West since Christmas. I?m tempted to believe him.
Monday 28th February. I telephoned Land Rover at George. They have no knowledge of my Vehicle. I eventually locate it in Oudtshoorn {about 25 from george - ian). Someone might have had the common courtesy to tell me. I now contact the Oudtshoorn dealer but only get Hermien who confirms that they have it. I advise her of other defects which need attention at the same time as the breakdown causes and fax this list to her. My machine reports no errors in the fax transmission.
Thursday 3rd March. Nothing heard from Land Rover so I phone Oudtshoorn and I am put through to the Workshop manager whose names escapes me (Martin?), dealer principal not there. This gentleman tells me that he needs spares but has no idea when they will arrive. I then ask him about the list of other defects/work that I had sent. He mentions the oil services that I listed but seems bemused by anything else and giggles when I mention the burnt-out navigation system.
I now phone Land Rover Customer Care and get put through to Nadine. I indicate my irritation with Land Rover and my inability to get any form of a straight answer either now or in the past ? I explain that I seek answers regarding the repairs to my vehicle as I will shortly be going overseas for several weeks and need to know both when and how my vehicle is to be repaired so that I can make the necessary arrangements. She promises to find out and call me back that afternoon. But she does not.
Friday 4th March. I have another crack at Land Rover Outdshoorn. This time I get the Parts Manager, Mr. Botha, dealer principal not there. He talks about needing to send a quote to Land Rover and is somewhat unconvincing in his claim to have ordered all the spare parts required.
Phone Land Rover Customer Care. Get stuck with Nadine again. I tell her that I cannot get sense out of anyone on a simple problem. When and how is my vehicle to be fixed? You have had it for a week but not one call and no one is telling me anything when I ask. It will be very irritating if the breakdown cause is fixed and the remaining defects/work have to be done elsewhere wich is where I suspect I am being led if anywhere at all. Asks for a copy of the fax that I had sent to Hermien. This done. She will get back to me on all this. I now know that she will not and I am not disappointed.
Late that afternoon I get a call from Hermien from Oudtshoorn. Wow! My very first call from anyone at Land Rover. But it?s dull. Claims she never got the fax that I have twice spoken to them about. Unlikely. Suggests she gets a copy from Nadine
Monday 7th March. Surely someone is now going to show interest at Land Rover and speak to me, But no such luck. At 4.30 pm I phone ?er, who shall I phone? Well the vehicle is allegedly at Oudtshoorn so let me phone them before they close. No dealer principal again, maybe he?s a golfer, This time I get Mr van Zyl, the Financial manager. Very helpful. I?ll go and find out right now and call you back in ten minutes. Another graduate of the Land Rover management training program who must have passed with flying colours as he is never heard from again.
I have had two years of Land Rover SA now. Every step is an effort rather like wading through deep molasses. Nobody seems to really know what they are doing. Nobody keeps you informed. Nobody follows up. Junior staff seem to be left to carry the can. Nobody EVER phones you back.
All I want to know is:
Does Land Rover have necessary spares in stock to repair this unreliable and very expensive vehicle of mine?
If not what are they doing about is?
Will the repairs to the cause of the breakdown and the other defects/work be dealt with at the same time as I require?
When does Land Rover expect this vehicle to be roadworthy again?
Why does nobody follow-up and phone you back ?
Why is it too difficult to answer these simple questions ?
Andy Gray
Cape Town
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I know others will have siimilar experiences with other marques...
I've been buying new cars for 30+ years and we currently have 4 at home, 3 bought new and one (Mercedes) I would have bought new if the dealers had been interested and I ended buying a 5mth old model from Mercedes Direct.
With rare exceptions all dealers are astonishingly hopeless. What amazes me is that little changes over the years - if you haven't been in the market for a couple of years you venture back in thinking it must be different, but it isn't. I'm also astonished that the manufacturers don't mystery shop - or at least if they do, then nothing seems to be done with the results.
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Unfortunately its not just Landrover dealers but a wide section of dealers of various franchises where sales standards and levels of customer interst /care are low.
I myself run a large Toyota dealer. ( btw at my garage none of the above applies)
This recession will sort out the bad / average / indifferent garages which no doubt will go to the wall.
For a sales manager not to take calls is inexcusable, for poor reception / telephone skills again this is very poor.
When you made your phone enquiries did anyone make an appointment for you to visit them ?
The way to get the best deal is to get the brokers prices then visit in person with deposit cheque in hand you local dealers. Get them to price match or better the brokers then everyone is happy (apart from the brokers of course) .... generally speaking you wont get the best out of a dealer over the telephone ... not right or wrong just the way it is.
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"The way to get the best deal is to get the brokers prices then visit in person with deposit cheque in hand you local dealers. "
I tried that at my local Toyota dealer - told in no uncertain terms there would be no price match on a brokers price They missed out, the broker and another Toyota main dealer benefitted.
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Our nearest Toyota dealer was the same: we were told, rather sniffily, there would be no discount whatever. They went about 4 years ago: in the boom time:)
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I'm not realy surprised
Think of the majority of people who have bought Land/Range Rovers over the last few years - badge obsessed nouveau riche townies/estate agents/city wide boys
How would you become if you had to deal with this type of person all day?
MVP
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Last year we were going to change our 5 yr old Honda CRV 11. Dressed in average casual clothes with the missus, we went into a LR dealer we were passing. We looked at each model in some detail for whether it would work for us. She was interested in the badge, but we were both amazed at the poor space utilisation relative to the CRV. We were the only customers in there, and in 20 mins no-one came over to try to sell us anything. They could have had a change from dealing with badge-obsessed........ by dealing with us, but they presumably thought we were beneath them. Big mistake as we could have bought anything they had in the showroom. As it was we bought a Honda CRV3 and are well pleased.
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I am wondering if the poor levels of customer service have been made worse by the freely available credit that we have had in recent years. I find most estate agents (ours included) to be fairly lazy and greedy - they have been used to houses selling near full price without any effort and have forgotten how to sell.
150 estate agents branches closing every week apparently. I think the recession is going to sort out the wheat from the chaff in the coming months in respect of car dealerships too.
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I agree with Bill Payer in that most dealers are pretty useless.
I drive a Honda and the dealer has been pretty good.
They do have a Business Manager (I think that is what he calls himself) and I cannot stand even talking to him (some of that maybe me though) to the point where I was given the usual speech about complying with financial regulations and you have to meet the Business Manager who will tell you about GAP etc.
I had previously told the salesman I did not want to go through this and so just got up and walked out when he told me we were doing it. He asked me where I was going before I got to the door and I told him. Funnily enough I managed to buy the car without complying with finance regulations and listening to someone selling me useless insurance.
Sorry to bring this old chestnut up again (and there have been some bad stories on here even about them) but once again I am hearing excellent reviews about Lexus dealers from a couple of colleagues that have IS's.
They are wondering why they even stepped foot in a BMW and Audi dealer previously.
So all the above goes to show it is not just the car - we want service and decent manners as well.
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I went though this at an Audi dealership. For reasons of our own, we didn't want a car loan or credit. Boy, you'd have thought we had suggested some twisted, illegal act to the salesman when we told them of our intention to buy it out right with no loan.
BMW weren't much better. " We don't do discounts of any sort , Sir " when I pointed out our lack of a part exchange.
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As ever, when choosing a car, if you want to avoid the sore of hassle described above, go to a dealership run by an individual or family (as presumably Niceguyeddy's is) rather than a chain. It's worth it even if such a dealer isn't your nearest - they should all offer loan cars anyway.
Cross Roads Garage (Renault - Oxfordshire) and Octagon (Toyota - Berkshire) are good examples. They won't let you down.
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Agreed Avant, and the current downturn is where those few buyers remember where they've been treated as a valued customer, not ignored the second the've paid the dosh.
And i'll bet Spot of Chasetown (Citroen-Staffs) will still be there in the non glass palace looking after their customers as usual.
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I had some similar experiences to what is described here when helping a friend buy a motorbility car.
Selling cars surely is not rocket science. Yet often dealers seem to have only a cursory knowledge of their product range eg features/price levels/what is a run out model/when is a new model coming in.
Compare that to say John Lewis and their staff whichever section they are in know their stuff. I presume they don't survive if they don't know which pan from which. I do wish sometimes John Lewis would run the country...or at least run a few car dealers...
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I am always surprised how much some shop assistants know about their goods - best examples are the lads that work in places like Game. Okay, it may be borderline autistic at times, but these guys seem to know everything about every console and video game that is on the market. They are real enthusiasts for their products - yet a car salesman cannot tell you offhand whether a certain model comes with air-con when they only sell 3 different models.
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Does anyone ever read Mary Portas in the Telegraph Saturday magazine? She's very sharp - I'd love to see her "do a car dealership".
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Reading this thread particularly the reliability issues makes it no surprise that the Toyota Landcruiser long ago almost banished LR from parts of the world where a breakdown in a remote area can be life threatening. Why do people still buy vehicles that are known to have poor reliability and dealers?
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I've had to correct salesmen in car dealers before. And have often helped with advice at PC World etc. When visiting John Lewis looking at LCD TVs or the past few months (undecided on screen size because of my better half) I think I helped sell at least a few offering advice to people looking at the same screens ;-)
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The guy at our local Mitsubishi dealer didn't have a clue about the Colts we were looking at, and needless to say never rang back the times he said he would.
However, the guy at Tradesales where we eventually bought the car seemed to know quite a lot, despite the fact that there was only one Colt on the site amongst the hundreds of Yaris, Corsas etc. And no hard sell of vehicle or finance either.
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