Think you should set up a seperate thread for horse riding on the roads, R75, I'd say they were two very different things...
Going back to the OP, I think the regulations for towing a horse trailer (?!) would be the same as a caravan or any other trailer except that due to you not wanting the horse to fall over you'll go round bends slower! That, to me, and I think the HC, means that you must consider other raod users and pull over to let queues past... When I towed a caravan I often found that I was going quicker than the Horse box/trailer but did not have enough room to overtake making it look like the 'van was holding everyone up, whereas it wasn't...
Having said that I've found most people who tow will move over if needed, but just like ordinary drivers there's a few ignorant ones who give the rest a bad name... and end up giving amunition to the likes of Clarkson and his cronies... who showed everyone how NOT to tow a caravan in that episode last year... it should be used as a "must see" video for all people new to towing on how not to do it!
(Perhaps something good may then come from the new TG!!)
Edited by b308 on 17/11/2008 at 16:11
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When I towed a caravan I often found that I was going quicker than the Horse box/trailer but did not have enough room to overtake making it look like the 'van was holding everyone up whereas it wasn't...
That's hardly an offence restricted to horse boxes though. I've had the same experience on plenty of occasions towing large trailers where it looks to those behind like I am the problem, but the actual hold up is nothing more than a common or garden mimser in their oblivious little plodabout.
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That's hardly an offence restricted to horse boxes though.
It wasn't meant as any criticism of them at all, it was just a little note to some car drivers that the caravan you have "been held up by" may not actually be the cause of the queue! Too many blame the 'van when, as you say, its actually a "Sunday" driver out for their weekly constitutional that is causing the problem!! ;)
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It gets right on my nerves horses on the roads either in a horsebox or walking along!!
I fear that, since horse riders are perhaps second only to pedestrians in the length of their history of road use, we in our newfangled motorised chariots probably have no choice but to accept that ancientness alone is enough to guarantee their rights over ours.
A few of them could do with being a little less grumpy mind you. I don't mind if you don't want to take your hand off the controls to wave an acknowledgement as I glide slowly, quietly and wide berth-ly past, but a smile or a nod isn't too much to ask is it?
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Steam gives way to sail. And so it should.
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Steam gives way to sail. And so it should.
And horses should display valid tax discs.
They should be calssified by the amount of greenhouse-causing methane they emit. Shetland Ponies can be in Group A with Citroen C1s, Shires will be Group G with Audi Q7s.
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"He was on a marked bike as he was "working", along our ride we came accross two horses with their riders going up hill and on a blind bend!!!!"
If you can't see the horses round a blind bend, what else can't you see? Not sure it's the riders' fault that drivers go too fast for the road conditions/forward visibility.
PS - went out for a really pleasant ride on my nag this am, before the drizzle set in. Great way to start the day.
Edited by oldnotbold on 17/11/2008 at 16:24
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The level of sheer, selfish, arrogance of horse-owners is not comprehensible to those who don't have regular contact with them. It must be something to do with looking down on the plebs from up there.
Wait until you see the behaviour of the Hunt!
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Wait until you see the behaviour of the Hunt!
Always pretty courteous in my narrowish experience. But then it has never occurred to me to take a moralistic line on that strangely baroque, roundabout and inefficient activity.
If I was galloping about on my lawful occasions chivvying the British fox and some group of self-appointed objectors surged up spraying aniseed and calling me scum, I too would be tempted to trample them underfoot and swipe at their heads with a crop. They are (or rather were) asking for it after all.
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"The level of sheer, selfish, arrogance of horse-owners is not comprehensible to those who don't have regular contact with them."
What a splendid, all-encompassing, sweeping generalisation.
Which do you find worse - BMW drivers or horsey-people? Or are they in fact mutually inclusive?
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Generalization certainly; but it's only the degree of arrogance that varies. The prevalent attitudes within that group would soon corrupt even the most meek and mild.
I quite like BMWs - as it happens. Used to have a 3.0 CSL.
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It gets right on my nerves horses on the roads either in a horsebox or walking along!!
I was driving yesterday 10a.m., a few MPH only, road sweeping gently right, behind an MB which was awaiting a safe place to overtake two horses going in single file ahead. Guess what? A twit came along behind, in a pale blue Ford, flashed past me, past MB man, and nearly embedded his car up the jacksy of the rearmost horse. I don't think he'd seen the riders. That got on my nerves a bit!
how come they (horses) can get away with it but dogs can't?
Dogs can, on the road - but not on the path. Horses should not be on paths, either.
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In response to Alanovich ("And horses should display valid tax discs.")...
Why stop there?
What about insurance? I suspect there is an awful lot of "fronting" in the horse world, just as there is with cars. Just taking Dobbin off to the shops Dad - I am insured, aren't I...? Perhaps this is already covered by ANPR (Assorted Nags and Ponies' Recognition)
And the list goes on... do horses get flashed by speed cameras? Is there provision for parking tickets? Can offending horses get clamped - if they haven't been done already?: (Yeouch!)
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The horror.. the horror..
I was late for a job and i was going from the Lakes to Yorkshire, you know, straight across, and a big horse lorry was holding up a LONG queue. Would not pull in. I confess when I eventually passed I blew me horn in the hope that a horse would kick a hole in the side of its stall. Message to all the cardigans before you start - yes i know it was wrong.
I heard of a combine harvester driver being fined for this once. It is so so ignorant.
And I SUPPORT hunting!!! but not horses on roads!
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"And I SUPPORT hunting!!! but not horses on roads! "
Where do you support hunting horses then if not on the road ;-) I'll get my coat.
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Some of the old green tint coming into the postings here by the sounds of it.
I'm not going to make excuses for discourteous driving by anyone, but its often the case with slow vehicles like horse boxes and tractors that a mimser or two jams up behind without the wit to pass the thing, or the sense to sit back and let normal folk go by, hence long snake.
If a slow vehicle driver pulls over to let a queue by, i always thank them with a little pip on the horn and a wave of thanks, seldom hear anyone else doing so, so lets not be hypocritical about courtesies.
On the subject of horsey people those mature ones are usually very polite, and often try to be ambassadors for the pastime when out on the road, as usual some of the more immature ones let the side down, no different to most things then.
And hunters never fail to thank any courtesy shown, at least thats been my experience, and long may they continue in their pursuit.
Sometimes motorists are rude and aggressive when passing horses, some ignorant HGV drivers to my shame are like this, conveniently forgetting who was there first.
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To the OP...How slow was slow?
It is perfectly legal to drive along a single carriage A road at 40mph. Indeed it is a requirement for all artics. Would you suggest that these pull over too?
In my experience, horse riders tend to avoid the roads where- and whenever possible, the reason being that many drivers, as they have never experienced horse ownership, have no idea how to behave when passing. NOT passing a rider is also dangerous as it increases the chance of someone doing something stupid.
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when I went purple and my language blue, the horsebox was doing about 25 and ignored chances to let the huge queue past. So yes I gave em a blast.
Normally I am scrupulous about thanking courtesy and I always think of other road users. I've taught myself to ignore aggression on the road because where does it get you? I might just think, "crash, you...."
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Screwloose you kindred spirit! The behaviour of the hunt and it's supporters sometimes beggars belief. And to top it all they get what amounts to a private Police service in case any anti's turn up! At the last hunt in our village everyone attending was parked all around the bends on the derestricted road making it a single lane. I stopped and suggested to the Sergeant that if I parked my car in the same manner sometime later I might expect 3 points for being parked in a dangerous position.... doesn't seem to apply to anyone when attending a hunt. As for horses on roads - where do I start? Roads as we know them were not made for the passage of horses so the old chestnut about horses being here first simply does not apply. There is no law requiring the 1 tonne horse to be insured for third party risks. Hit a horse and expect the owner to claim. Have your car damaged by a horse and whistle. The average motorist pays car tax on purchase of his/her vehicle, annual VED, fuel tax and insurance for the privilege of the tarmac surface. There are a multitude of paths and by-ways for the horse rider but if they insist on using the road and the horse cannot cope with the traffic then perhaps it simply is not suitable to be there.
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And to top it all they get what amounts to a private Police service
As usual; the forecourt to the workshop was completely obstructed last Saturday. No way to get in or out. About a dozen boxes and trailers - one parked slap across the, clearly marked, doors. [We've always parked here" - the "pleb" was unspoken...]
About 2 hours later, mid-day, most of them had already given up; so they dumped their mounts in the boxes [to kick to pieces all afternoon] and retreated to the local pub in 4x4s - returning about 4; totally legless.
Despite being in a condition that would have got them arrested even on foot; they then pile into their various lorries and attempt to exit the yard - one was having extreme difficulty aiming an 8ft truck through a 20ft wide entrance.
Where were the police? Oh they were right outside all the time - stopping the traffic on the main road to let these berks emerge! Even when one proved too drunk to execute a simple right turn and drove straight on to the opposite grass, not an eyebrow was raised.
Like I said; if you don't experience their arrogance first-hand, it's hard to explain.
[And as for the low-life thugs called the "Hunt Stewards..."]
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If you would ban hunting for the sake of a few horseboxes/trailers that annoy you (and TBH screwloose, it's quite clear that they annoy you even when parked up at home) I trust that you have the same view of football crowds, and would ban football matches - would make our lives a lot nicer, and reduce policing requirements.
Again, it has to be pointed out that the hunt does not require policing; it is third parties who do. Football crowds do otherwise they damage each other.
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I see from yr post Screwloose that you have good personal reasons to be annoyed with your local hunt. I must say it sounds rather a rough one.
Perhaps there is a local history of conflict with a lot of saboteurs etc.? That might well be bad for its disposition. You have to remember that a ban on fox hunting has been casually imposed on those people for reasons that look (to me anyway) utterly contemptible.
No excuse for rudeness or obstruction to decent local artisans though.
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Can we get back on to towing horse boxes (motoring related) and not debating hunting. I have an opinion but the is not the place. Screwloose you have my sympathies.
{Mostly said as a mod before I get involved in the debate and become impartial ;-)}
Edited by rtj70 on 18/11/2008 at 18:37
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accross two horses with their riders going up hill and on a blind bend!!!! He put his lights on and overtook them then when it was safe pulled them in and discussed the finer points of safety with them!!!! Whilst they were not doing anything illegal it was certainly very dangerous for them and other drivers!
What could he possibly have suggested other than don't ride on the road, somewhere a horse rider has every entitlement to be? He'd have got a mouthful off me if he'd tried to give me a safety lecture on where I can and can't ride.
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I recognise your right to ride a horse on the road but is this an exercise in doing so for the sake of it, just because you can? I would question whether it is appropriate, and if you think it is, do you have insurance for third party risks? If not, why not? You may not be required to do so by law but do you have a moral obligation to do so? This is a motoring forum and so I think there is a place for this discussion. As a horse rider and presumably a driver you are perhaps well placed to impart informed opinion. In the case of the traffic Sergeant discussing the two abreast riding perhaps you miss the point in your response.
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"This is a motoring forum and so I think there is a place for this discussion"
But the original thread title is "inconsiderate horse box towing". We should not muddle all threads in one for a start. And hunting is certainly not motoring related (reference to other posts not yours woodster)... although JC had a good in that Suzuki I suppose on Top Gear.
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What could he possibly have suggested other than don't ride on the road somewhere a horse rider has every entitlement to be? He'd have got a mouthful off me if he'd tried to give me a safety lecture on where I can and can't ride.
Maybe you would not need the safety lecture, maybe you, like myself and the officer in question would have enough sense not to be riding on that stretch of road! It was in the middle of the Berkshire countryside, plenty of fields, bridleways and other off road riding habitat for them.
Aside from the fact that these were quite young riders (early to mid teens) what on earth were the parents thinking. I would hazard a guess they would not have let them on the same piece of road on a pushbike (NSL road), so why allow it on a 1 ton animal with a mind of it's own!!!!!
Horses are for fields not the highways!
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