Hello it's me again with an update. The clunking returned yesterday with avengence! It sounds worse than ever and happens intermittently when braking at low speeds. It seems the grease has lasted about 9 months and it hasn't clunked for that period. But the noise is back, louder than before and it doesn't fill you with very much confidence when the brakes make this horrible clunking noise while trying to stop the vehicle!! And I thought that Toyota's were supposed to be reliable!!
I'm going to take my car in to Toyota to get them to grease my brakes again. Thanks Dave for the grease part number. It would be interesting to see if anyone else has had this problem.......
Ian
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Sounds to me like brakes assembled without anti rattle pads...
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It must be almost a year ago that I too complained of the "Clunking " noise apparently coming from the Brake Pads(?) I told Mr Toyota of the problem when the Verso was serviced last December (08)..I also gave them a letter explaining in detail ie It always happens when parked for a little while, and have travelled for a few yards..It's "CLUNK" and then nothing until stopped and parked for around an hour..Mr Toyota just stared at me as if I was ordering some Sushi!..when I collected the car (the last "free" under warranty service) they had obviously greased something around the pads, and on joyfully driving off, the CLUNK was still there!...To be frank, the car runs fine, with no braking problems, and the advice given by a earlier thread (a Toyota Mechanic?) that it was "nothing to worry about" seems to be true, BUT, it is still very annoying, and I have NEVER experienced this noise in any of the 30 odd cars I have owned..so I now put up with it, and will take the Verso to my local garage to be serviced now that the warranty has expired..I will point them toward the problem, and see what they think. I cannot believe that greasing inside the calipers, is a cure for what is obviously a design fault...watch this space, in a few weeks time...Dave
SQ
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 03/11/2009 at 12:39
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oh my ...... i thought i was the only one with that problem, it seems to happen most, if not all mornings, and sometimes after being parked for some time....... i have dropped the windows to see if i could hear it any better but it sounds the same with windows up or down...... it usually happens at about 5-8mph after about 10 yards or so. the only way to describe my noise is a kind of click-clunk within about half a second.......... it has happened for the last 3 years since i bought the car. and as luck has it, it doesnt happen whenever im at toyota so they also gave me a funny puzzled (sushi) look.
personally i thought it may be do do with the immobilisation mechanism but then again it would happen all the time, so i have no idea what it might be........ im going to uprate my brakes in a few days, so ill mention it to the mechanic doing the work, and get him to have a proper look. then when the new brakes go on. ill see what happens.
let me know if you find a resolve and ill do the same too. thanks and good luck with your sushi problem. ha ha
SQ
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 04/02/2010 at 10:11
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I think this is just the pads moving within the carriers. Nothing to worry about, but perhaps annoying. We see this a lot on Suzuki swift. Often it goes away once the brakes have warmed up a bit and the pad has expanded slightly.
Hard to cure, but we have found on the Swifts that some aftermarket pads are slightly larger than OE and so stops the problem.
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I have exactly the same problem on a 2008 Mazda MX5 - on the offside front wheel.
It has been into the Mazda dealer 3 times for attention under warranty and there seems to be no fix. "Moving pad" is the only diagnosis but I have been assured it isn't a problem or dangerous.
Annoying - it certainly is. Started without any reason about 5 months ago. I suspect only when the pads are ultimately replaced will it possibly go away - naturaly replacing the pads isn't covered under warranty !
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I have exactly the same problem on a 2008 Mazda MX5 - on the offside front wheel.
It has been into the Mazda dealer 3 times for attention under warranty and there seems to be no fix. "Moving pad" is the only diagnosis but I have been assured it isn't a problem or dangerous.
Annoying - it certainly is. Started without any reason about 5 months ago. I suspect only when the pads are ultimately replaced will it possibly go away - naturaly replacing the pads isn't covered under warranty !
UPDATE
Just in case anyone comes across this thread 3 years down the line ..... I had the front brake pads replaced this year as part of regular service and the noise has gone !
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Just found this thread from some time ago.
I have the same knocking Noise on my 2003 Verso ZZE and my indie reported that the pads were fine and fitted with the springs.
But the knock persists and starts after about 15 minutes from cold after approximately 10 brake operations . Then it happens after repeated brake operations.
Investigated the special Toyota grease but it turns out to be calliper grease used in their workshops and costs £40.
Grateful your views mcros if you still contribute to this site.
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If this bothers you, and you are up for disassembly and cleaning, disassemble and clean,
Crumpled aluminium foil is a good cleaning medium, and/or a scraper made from beer can.
As an alternative or supplement to shims and greases, you could try
(a) RTV on pad backs and/or shims
(b) Wrapping shims and/or pad ears in PTFE thread tape
(c) a little Aluslip on the pad ears (I've stopped doing that because it doesn't seem to be required on my brakes and it may collect brake dust, but YMMV)
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Thanks edithglow.
From my description would you agree the noise comes from the pads ?
Cheers
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Thanks edithglow.
From my description would you agree the noise comes from the pads ?
That'd be my best/first guess, but of course there are lots of other components potentially in play (NPI) including wheel bearings and suspension bits, which will be loaded by deceleration when you brake , .
The next step, as GB details above, would be the calipers pins and then the pistons. I use silicon grease on the caliper pins and wrap them with PTFE tape. Red rubber grease is an alternative but I've never been able to find my little tube (bought in Yokohama maybe 5 years ago) when I'm doing the brakes, and it might now have gone off. Likewise a couple of sachets of Bendix Ceramlube (bought in Australia)
Coppaslip is a popular alternative, but shouldn't be, since it isn't designed as a lubricant, and isn't rubber compatible.
I completely removed the pistons on my current car (probably not necessary in your case) which had a badly neglected braking system. Quite satisfying and not too difficult if you ignore the prevailing advice on the Internyet and press them out with the brake pedal, (which is designed for the job), rather than using compressed air, (which is designed to make a mess and blind you.)
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I have the same knocking Noise on my 2003 Verso ZZE and my indie reported that the pads were fine and fitted with the springs.
Sounds like something is expanding when things get warm.
Strip the pads out, exercise the pistons in their grooves, if the pistons are stiff you could wipe some of the correct brake grease onto the piston itself when out by a good amount by lifting the dust cover and using a cotton bud to apply.
Clean the calipers and any sliding pins and the pad steel backing plates well, lubricate the pins well when reassembling, give a wipe of lube to the outside edges of the pad backing plates where they sit against the caliper and to the contact points on the back of the pad where the pistons contact, same where the other pad contacts the frame of the caliper if the caliper is a single piston sliding type...what you use for lube for this is your choice, some say coppaslip but i tend not to use that anymore and use the correct red brake grease for everything, but, the sliding pins can get sticky with the red stuff so maybe coppaslip is still an alternative lube, jury is still out on what's best.
Lastly, has someone put in poorly fitting pads at some point, ie the pads should be a nice secure sliding fit in the caliper but they shouldn't be floating around.
Obviously caliper bolts have all been checked.
After this work if the noise goesaway then you know its within the brakes, if it comes back trying another type of lube would be my suggestion.
There is another possibility, though i would have thought a wheel would have to be very loosely tightened, some Toyota discs do not have a grub screw holding them to the hub, when you remove a wheel you are able to move the disc slightly both ways, i suppose it's not outside the realms of possibility the knocking sound is the disc taking up that probably 0.3mm of movement...just a thought here i highly doubt it has any bearing.
Edited by gordonbennet on 06/09/2020 at 10:48
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I think this is just the pads moving within the carriers. Nothing to worry about, but perhaps annoying. We see this a lot on Suzuki swift. Often it goes away once the brakes have warmed up a bit and the pad has expanded slightly. Hard to cure, but we have found on the Swifts that some aftermarket pads are slightly larger than OE and so stops the problem.
IF the pads are loose in the caliper slides, and they move on stainless steel slider clips, like mine do, I suppose it might be possible to shim out the clips a bit to be a better fit.
Perhaps use little bits of beer can aluminium? Or bed them in RTV?
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IF the pads are loose in the caliper slides, and they move on stainless steel slider clips, like mine do, I suppose it might be possible to shim out the clips a bit to be a better fit
Those sprung stainless clips you mention should see the pads a snug fit, if anything i've had to ping them off and clean the accumulated crud that inevitably gets behind them, if the pads are a loose fit within those spung clips, then i suggest the pads are a poor stamping copy, new spring clips if they are past it are easily available here.
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Noisy caliper guide pins is quite common on Avensis so i would imagine quite possibly on a Verso too,
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Many thanks for these useful suggestions.
I will get my Indie to check the brakes once more . He was convinced the driveshafts were the cause last time and changed them
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Thought the problem was going away but after repeated light braking it has reappeared.
Nothing for the first five or six brake applications then random knocks on light application.
Does that throw any light on the problem. My indie believes that the pads are secure and has solved the issue with a change of driveshafts.
I have let him know but I believe he feels the problem is insignificant on an old car !
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Booked back in this Friday for another look.
My indie claims the pads are greyed up and secure with shims and not moving.
Lets hope he has some success this time.
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Success at last.
Turned out to be seized calliper pins on the rear although the noise seemed to be coming from the front.
New pins and clips and the noise is gone and the brakes freed up. Result !
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Success at last.
Turned out to be seized calliper pins on the rear although the noise seemed to be coming from the front.
New pins and clips and the noise is gone and the brakes freed up. Result !
More than likely is fronts, I had same problem on civic though it happens on a lot of motors, i always found cause to be pads moving in caliper, but only on sharp braking where pad takes up gap between pad end and caliper mount ,nothing to worry about but annoying
I know several people that have this problem and on different cars not just Toyota or Honda BMw and Mercs as well
Must be make of pad used imo
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Finally at long last after three attempts the problem may have been fixed.
New calliper pins and clips and anti rattle pads on the reverse of the pads.
QED well I hope That’s it
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Success at last.
Turned out to be seized calliper pins on the rear although the noise seemed to be coming from the front.
New pins and clips and the noise is gone and the brakes freed up. Result !
More than likely is fronts, I had same problem on civic though it happens on a lot of motors, i always found cause to be pads moving in caliper, but only on sharp braking where pad takes up gap between pad end and caliper mount ,nothing to worry about but annoying
I know several people that have this problem and on different cars not just Toyota or Honda BMw and Mercs as well
Must be make of pad used imo
A occasional issue with Honda Jazz.
Not mine when new fitted with Pagid OE pads.
When changed to Brembo pads, clunk form left front brake when reversing and turning and then going forward.
Dtripped, checked, changed shims - no difference.
New pads - Pagid- in 15k miles...will hopefully sort it in three years time.
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Basically Madf it’s down to the pads and possible cheap aftermarket ones ?
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Basically Madf it’s down to the pads and possible cheap aftermarket ones ?
Yes.. The pads have a tab on the end of the backing plate - which fits into a slot in the caliper brake pad carrier. If it's a loose fit, the disk pad will rotate slightly when the disk catches it.. and stick. Release the brake pedal or reverse direction and the pad will release and BANG.
Only a couple of mms will be enough.
Edited by madf on 02/11/2020 at 15:09
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Spoke too soon ma***
The silence following my mechanic fitting backing sticky pads lasted less than a week..
Too embarrassed to take it back again so I plan to get another mechanic to fit a set of OE pads.
Would you recommend Pagid for the Toyota Corolla ?
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Spoke too soon ma*** The silence following my mechanic fitting backing sticky pads lasted less than a week.. Too embarrassed to take it back again so I plan to get another mechanic to fit a set of OE pads. Would you recommend Pagid for the Toyota Corolla ?
As far as I know, Pagid are one of the many suppliers to Toyota and Honda.. so yes.
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You might try
(a) wrapping the pad ears in an few turns of PTFE thread tape.
(b) shimming out the stainless clips the pads move on.
(c) both
You'd likely have to do that yourself though. Probably couldn't get a mechanic to do it.
Not in the playbook.
Edited by edlithgow on 02/11/2020 at 23:56
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Really appreciate your suggestions.
Heard so many stories about cheap pattern part pads !
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Probably couldn't get a mechanic to do it.
Cheaper to fit OEM pads, though they even knock at around 4mm on Honda
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Decided to report the problem back to my INDI.
He has agreed to take yet another look. Must be about the sixth attempt and I’m embarrassed to have to call him yet again.
The stick on shim pads worked for about a week then as soon as the pads settled down the squeeze on light braking returned .m
So new caliper pinsand the shims fitted so then the squeal developed.
Ive suggested as you recommended to try some OE pads ?
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Can someone explain why it took a week of driving before the brake squeal returned after fitting the anti rattle pads ?
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Can someone explain why it took a week of driving before the brake squeal returned after fitting the anti rattle pads ?
Once pads wear in on occasions the pad dust gets stuck between pad and disc which causes a vibration, that vibration happens so fast it makes squeeling noise
Part of reason pads have split halfway across them is so the dust rolls into the gap and helps prevent vibration -squeel
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Thanks Bolt.
So the solution may be a high quality set of pads with a groove as you suggest ?
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Can someone explain why it took a week of driving before the brake squeal returned after fitting the anti rattle pads ?
Not to detract from Bolt's probably more likely explanation, but another possibility might be uneven pad wear aided by slight disk wobble/runout, which creates a very slight convexity in the pad profile, which in turn allows it to vibrate.
Have you had disk runout checked? I think they use a dial indicator.
Runout could be caused by dirt or rust on the hub, brake material on the disk face, or a warped or unevenly worn disk, and could be cured by cleaning, radial re-positioning, shimming or replacement
This is theory. I don't have a dial indicator, so I've never done this test.
Come to think on't I don't think I've ever had squealing brakes, possibly partly because it probably would'nt bother me much if I did.
Reverse Sod's Law / Mind over matter
Relax and it'll never happen.
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Can someone explain why it took a week of driving before the brake squeal returned after fitting the anti rattle pads ?
Not to detract from Bolt's probably more likely explanation, but another possibility might be uneven pad wear aided by slight disk wobble/runout, which creates a very slight convexity in the pad profile, which in turn allows it to vibrate.
Have you had disk runout checked? I think they use a dial indicator.
Runout could be caused by dirt or rust on the hub, brake material on the disk face, or a warped or unevenly worn disk, and could be cured by cleaning, radial re-positioning, shimming or replacement
This is theory. I don't have a dial indicator, so I've never done this test.
Come to think on't I don't think I've ever had squealing brakes, possibly partly because it probably would'nt bother me much if I did.
Reverse Sod's Law / Mind over matter
Relax and it'll never happen.
You don`t even need a dial indicator, a straight edge almost touching the side of the disc is usually enough to say the disc is warped as you can see where the disc gets closer to or further away from the straight edge.
different if you need precision ie want to know how many thou the runout is either way, but to tell you if you have runout a straight edge will do the job. simple
ps take wheel off first you cannot do it otherwise
Edited by bolt on 05/11/2020 at 12:17
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Thanks for all your contributions.
In the end I handed a new set of pads to my mechanic and fingers crossed!
He was reluctant to change the others as they were Mintex which he thought were a good make. But it turns out a company bought the name and they are the same now as Euro Car Value !
Same thing is happening all over where well known brands are bought for their name and replaced by cheap imports!
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Afaik Mintex was last sold in 2011 (to the same company that also owns e.g. Pagid). However, like most mass market friction manufacturers they produce a no. of different qualities of pads.- I was happy with a set of Mintex pads on my first Avensis that were fitted when I also upgraded the discs but they were one of their better ranges rather than the cheapest.
Afaik Mintex branded products are still made in the UK.
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