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All this discussion about old cars has made me nostalgic for these. Have had several Citroens - in my view the 'quirkier' the better (apart from the XM). But the DS - should I? Could I? Buy one and afford to run it that is.
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Ah the DS. My father had one - A 1973 D super 5. utterly gorgeous car to look at. Got bad news for you tho. They are pretty horrid to drive. Wallowy, over sensitive steering with no feel, no feel to the brakes (a big rubber bulb on the floor).
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My uncle had several DSs from new incl Safaris.
As AE says, great in straight lines. Awful on corners.
I remember bit plasticy insides.
Best to look at .
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I can remember the steering and brakes you describe from a CX I had. Loved it once I got used to it despite the fact it made the children sick and the ventilation was terrible. But such an icon!
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Personally, id plump for an early CX rather than a DS, its a bit more conventional but still bonkers design-wise.
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An ID rather than a DS!-just as interesting,same looks but much simpler.
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A DS Decapotable if you can find one....rare as hens' teeth. Wouldn't be cheap either but what a car.
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The Citroen DS and ID always remind me of a sign where the signwriter had run out of space and had to squeeze the last few letters in. The styling is nice for the front half of the car but the rear is all squeezed up and out of proportion.
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The Rallye ones with about two feet cut out of the middle looked even worse.
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Ahhhh the DS Chapron Decap:a beautiful looking car. The late Alan Clark bought one for his wife Jane but used it at any opportunity, especially touring France, it crops up in his Diaries a lot. Simply poetry in motion but still saddled with that rough old four that had its origins in the Traction Avant. The last one I saw up for sale was up for around £80K or something mad like that.
If only Citroen fitted the Flat Six that had planned for this car....
Edited by Mattbod on 16/11/2008 at 14:16
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I had a DS 21 and an SM, not at the same time! Here is a link to ones for sale, including the VERY expensive convertible, which is in Essex.
tinyurl.com/6pw2jz
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It is quite incorrect to call the DS 'wallowy' to drive. Its suspension had two characteristics that made some people think it wallowy: lots of roll when cornering hard, and a tendency to bottom after a certain sort of sharp crest. It would take a bit of practice to be quick over speed bumps in one for example. Despite the peculiar pedal the brakes were more than adequate, as Citroen brakes always are.
In the right hands however, on the open road, it clung like a leech on corners, with increasing understeer admittedly, and could carry an improbable amount of speed through them. Did well in its class in the Monte Carlo rally. Once you got used to the roll it was very relaxing and pleasant being driven by a proper Citroen driver in one and sailing past everything else.
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got used to the roll it was very relaxing and pleasant being driven by a proper Citroen driver in one and sailing past everything else.
Only after you cleaned your vomit from his neck. The roll was deeply disturbing.
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The roll was deeply disturbing.
Ptui! Rosbif wimpique!
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2CV RULES(and rolls)!!! OK!!!
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fond memories of mini cabbing in a cx 2.5 gti ! dont ask. never driven one before, had to learn in 30 mins flat, customer waiting. fabulous car, didn't it have the largest 4 cyl engine at 2.5 litres . totally bonkers citroen, 28 hours labour to replace clutch, engine out job.
how to throw it from one side of round to other with about half an inch wheel movement.
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I've never owned a DS but I have had a couple of CXs and loved them both despite the appalling electrics. I wouldn't call the ride wallowy, swoopy perhaps? and no car sickness either. The brakes were magnificent once you were used to them. I still lust after either an early CX (either 2.4 or 2.5) or a GTi turbo 2. One day....
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So glad to see there are other Citroenistes out there. I have had so much stick in the past from the unenlightened who couldn't/wouldn't think outside the square like Citroen. Pity they are so conventional now - but that's the bottom line for you.
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Loved the single spoke steering wheel on my old GS, all instruments clearly visible. The non self-cancelling indicators were great too once you got used to them. Lost their individuality and quirkiness when Peugot took over IMHO. Like the styling of the latest ones though.
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I've had 2. DS23 Familiale (7 seater) semi-auto was my main car 25 years ago and a D Super 5 I bought to play with 10 years later. Loved them both. Probably very noisy and underpowered by today's standards. Supple ride, nicely weighted steering, outstanding brakes and very comfortable. IMO a DS needs some effort in learning to get the best out it. Roll in corners can take you by surprise especially if you've just stepped out of a modern firmly-sprung car. The pliant suspension means lots of roll but it also means each wheel is following the road surface. Understeer entirely progressive, very noisy and completely controllable. Drive one at night on an unlit road to appreciate the swivelling headlights. Sadly, I think their time as everyday transport has probably come and gone.
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There was a moderately pimped metallic purple CX 25GTI Turbo 2 at the Classic Motor Show at the NEC on Sunday. I thought it looked fabulous. Long, low and menacing.
I used to live near Chris Goffey of old Top Gear fame, who was a DS nut, and who I would see most days heading up the nearby hill in one of his examples. The jumpers were probably more distinctive than the car ;-)
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"There was a moderately pimped metallic purple CX 25GTI Turbo 2 at the Classic Motor Show at the NEC on Sunday"
Is that the one with a reg no Cxxx GAT? In which case it is a bit more than moderately pimped - I believe it packs around 400 BHP!!
Don't forget the D was introduced in 1955. Whilst it might be behind today's cars, it was in a different galaxy when launched - what were Ford producing at the time? Live rear axles and cart springs???
Body roll has always been a feature of Citroens - you get used to it!
I'd love a D, or a CX, or just the time to fix the rag top Visa I've already got!
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For ALL Citroen fans
There must be some good photos here plus lots n lots of detail
www.citroenet.org.uk/passenger-cars/passenger-cars...l
and DS fans - from the same site
www.citroenet.org.uk/passenger-cars/michelin/ds/ds...l
Enjoy
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Flicking through cable last night I noticed Wheeler Dealers was back. They are going abroad to buy and last night was a DS - bought from a local just outside Lyon - 4800 euros.
Main repair was a new valve and accumulator for the hydraulics - £135 for a new one.
Lights needed to be made RHD - £350 a pair
New seat covers - originals £300 a set
New clock - £20!
Apart from a minor parking scrape on the front wing the rest of the car was in excellent condition.
It was sold to a UK enthusiast for about £7,000.
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Don't think there's a need for RHD headlights, my LHD Ulysse went through a few MOTs with correctly fitted beam benders. Although I'll grant you it will look better with replacement headlights.
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They mentioned you could use black tape (UK based LHD smart owners did this) and pass the MOT, but it makes more interesting TV showing how easy it is to remove the front wing and light assembly, rather than just getting the insulation tape out.
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I owned a DS 23 Safari some years ago. I had 25 continuous years of Citroen motoring which included 2 Ami 8's, 2 GS's, DS23, CX, AX, and 2CV. I was a member of the Citroen Car Club throughout this time and spent many hours repairing and cussing these quirky cars.
Some years ago I considered buying another DS. The Club expert, who I consulted on numerous occasions over the years, suprisingly advised me NOT to buy a DS as the floor structure is so complicated a rebuild is economically unviable. The problem is that the condition of the floor cannot be discovered without thorough dismantling and the internal condition every car is different and seems to bear no relation to mileage, age, use or climate. In other words it is a lottery. You can be lucky, but as the price of a cosmetically good DS is so high now, if you get a bad one it can cost a fortune to put right.
Fantastic cars though - nothing like them.
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DS fans might find this interesting
www.citroen-restoration.co.uk/ds/index.php
Phil
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I have long lusted after an early CX. The problem is the early ones had poor rust-resistance and good ones are extremely rare. I found a very early French one - so early that it was a 4-speed with no PAS - in the perfect bronze metallic colour and had a test. Very nice - but too much money, sadly.
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I found a very early French one - so early that it was a 4-speed with no PAS - in the perfect bronze metallic colour and had a test.
My granny had one of them. Stunning car, gorgeous to look at and to ride in.
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Have a look at his restoration of the 2CV on the page in question. Huge amount of work he's done there - and all, by the looks of his pics, in his front garden in Manchester. Quotes from his text........ "I put it on axle stands on my garden. Oh the neighbours love me...." "and I spent hours with a hammer, chisel and large stilson wrench tapping them around". Indeed, I am truly grateful not to live next door to him....it's one thing having a keen interest ....but...!!!
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There is something deep within me that loves the 2CV and I have always wanted one. There is a great bloke in my area that restores them to "as new" condition for about £7,000 on the road. I have never driven one but I have an invite to do so. I don't know whether free plugs are allowed but I will so as he is a top guy,always has time for you and his work is immaculate:Alan Bradford SillyCVs of Hoo in Kent. www.sillycvs.co.uk.
I personally would prefer a GS to a DS. Lovely aircooled screamer of a flat four in GSXx2 trim. Would want a U.K car with the lovely trad veglia instruments and not the comedy drum speedo of the continental cars. Are there any left in the U.K?
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Oh yes, a few GSs still around over here (check out the Citroen Car Club) although not too many of the 'sporty' X2s. If you have never driven a 2CV but have the chance to do so, you should jump at it - preferably on a sunny day down country lanes. I think it was one of the 10 cars that Car Magazine said you must drive before you die.
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Despite starting this string as a Citroen fan - I am really have to say owning 2 Dyanes taxed my patience. Not just the fact that the roof leaked on both of them so wife had to wear a hat, impossible to start in cold weather (we have dined out on some of those pushing the car stories for years), very high servicing costs as they were designed when labour costs didn't matter, none of these put me off as they were a hoot to drive. It was witnessing a minor prang when all the panels just fell off a 2CV! That alarmed me.
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This surprises me with the simple flat twin. Looks like simplicity itself although I understand the bearings and rods etc are forged as one unit so if a bearing goes you have to replace the whole big end. Shouldn't go if you look after it and the engine only takes 2 litres of oil.
I guess any car of the era of the Dyane (sans electric ignition, particularly if it's French or Italian,) is prone to a paddy in cold, damp weather
I must say though that taking an engine out on a CX to change a clutch sounds a bit drastic! It is a shame that the build quality on something like a GS was so bad though as it was an extremely innovative car.I think that one can admire a Citroen for its engineering but one gets the impression that one needs to be committed as an owner. A restored 2CV would be a nice toy though!
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A Citroen Car Club "expert" told you not to buy a DS?? Hard to believe. So on that criteria the DS would die out and he'd be an "expert" in motoring history instead. He needs retiring with his pipe and slippers and a car blanket. Live a little. You could be dead tomorrow!! There are loads of DS's that have a solid chassis. Ask for advice from Centreville in Newcastle Upon Tyne or DS World in London. Yes some suffer from rust. What's new? They were built from 1955 so rust will be an issue but get an expert and find a good 'un and have some fun.
I've owned a '72 DSuper for 6 years. It's beautiful, solid, reliable, rust proofed, dependable and the most comfortable and enjoyable car I've ever owned or driven. Yes I've had to replace a few things on it over the years, but that's to be expected considering it's nearly 40 years old but I'd jump in it tomorrow and have no fears about getting to the south of France and back.
Check out the website ds restoration on how to find a good one. In 2005, the DS celebrated its 50 birthday in Paris. There were thousands of DS's in town over that week end. All rot boxes about to collapse?? Of course not. There is so much garbage written about the DS, often by people, who it turns out have never owned one.
I wouldn't swap mine for anything. It always brings a smile to my face and to countless other drivers too. And no it's not the fastest car, but the engine is bomb proof, taken from the Avant, and anyway a DS doesn't have to rush to impress!
If you want to experience a DS before bying check out citroen-ds-hire.co.uk
Find a good one and you won't regret it.
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