As many who have been following the Old CAR Magazine thread will know a lot of us have been getting nostalgic about the cars of the late 70s and early 80s that were lauded by this once venerable pubication. I have bought some old copies of CAR and three cars have seriously tempted me into looking Europe wide for a good example:
The FIAT 127 and FIAT 128 ( fantastic Lampredi designed OHC engine)
Citroen GS (svelte comfortable and terrific revvy air cooled flat four engine)
Alfa Sud 1200 TI ( still reckoned by many today as one of the most finely balanced front drivers ever made).
All despite having fantastic engineering were built from useless recyled steel and rusted away over here. However do cherished cars still exist in the south of Italy and France, where is the best place to look and are pristine examples of such cars expensive? I remember them all as great little cars as a kid and the Alfas and FIATs used to sound brilliant when driven "con brio" as they usually were.
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blah blah blah>> All despite having fantastic engineering were built from useless recyled steel and rusted away over here. However do cherished cars still exist in the south of Italy and France where is the best place to look and are pristine examples of such cars expensive?
Hate to say it, but these were huge sellers here, but I can't recall when last I saw an example of any one of them on the road.
I think the inherent SovSteel problem was there no matter what the climate.
I'll have a word with my mate Tucky, who is a local Fiat dealer and works racing driver, and see if he can tell us more, but don't get your hopes up.
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I learned to drive in a 128 Coupe (the two door predecessor to the 3P).
I looked at getting one again, there were a few 1100's available in France, mostly yellow, but for a 1300 you have to go to New Zealand or Oz.
I also had a 127 1300GT during my college years. Not sure if the late (blunt) 127 shape did it no favours but combined with the 5 speed box, it never felt as quick as the 128's 1290 four speed despite having the same bhp.
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In the 70's I had a Fiat 128, a 128 Coupe and and Alfasud 1.5Ti. All wonderful cars and of course the choice was influenced by Car magazine. I would certainly consider any of them again but I suspect that scarcity of spares would steer me towards the Alfasud.
Interestingly they all had belt driven OHC engines but there was little talk AFICR about regular replacement and the endless problems we seem to have now. The Alfasud had exposed timing belts so inspection was very simple and inboard discs which could have the pads replaced in minutes from the engine bay.
Current edition of Auto Italia has an Alfasud group test and from time to time Fiat 128 Coupes are up for sale. Go for it and keep us informed.
alfalfa
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My dad, who knew a bit about cars bought a Fiat 127 (1972?) for my mum, persuaded his sister to buy a Fiat 128 - the colour was yellow/orange - Positano I think. He then replaced his Cortina 1600E with a Fiat 124S (saloon).
He got company cars after that and it all went down hill with one Cortina after another.
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>>and inboard discs which could have the pads
replaced in minutes from the engine bay.<<
I used to own two examples of the excellent Alfasud(and a 128 coupe)back in the late seventies and early eighties.
One snag I seem to remember with the inboard discs was that they were prone to stop working very well if the car had been recently driven through a large puddle.
I soon learnt to dab the brakes gently to dry the discs.
My second example showed no sign whatsoever of rust,and I kept it for about five years from new.
Flawed they might have been,but they were well in advance of anything Ford or Vauxhall had to offer.
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I've seen dozens of Suds in pristine condition at Alfa meetings. I believe they're not ridiculously expensive to buy, but the problem is finding a good one for sale. It's not that good ones don't exist - it's that the owners of good ones don't want to sell!
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Up until a few years ago there were loads of old cars in Italy, many pristine. THere was then a government initiative to get older "polluting" cars off the road by offering a few thousand euro trade in for a new one. Since then the numbers have decreased quite markedly. My grandad last year sold his 20 year old Uno (was immaculate, no rust anywhere!) and got e3000 for it!!
There are still nice examples which arent rare however
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Will keep my eyes peeled then. As have said elsewhere PR god forbid any state scapping scheme here.
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There are a few good GSs around still. Just look into the Citroen Car Club.
Dad had a M-reg GS 1220 Club in a metallic sea blue which looked so absolutely gorgeous that I sprayed my pedal bike frame the same colour!
But it was an ex-demonstrator that had not been run-in well and was burning too much oil by about 60,000. As I recall him telling me, the problem with it being a flat 4 was that oil would seep past the rings when it was parked, and so starting it would produce clouds of smoke!
Still a fantastic car and so way ahead of its time. Possibly the most deserved ever 'Car of The Year'?
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Try www.autoscout24.de and also www.mobile.de. Quite a few 127s and 128s on both.
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I;ve always wanted one of these, they look so fresh even 30 years later
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_130
I was told you could have these cars with electric windows, central locking, power steering etc when all you got on a Cortina GLX was sun visors.
People seem to forget that FIAT have made some stunning executive cars. Maybe I should buy that £250 FIAT Meria 20V :D.
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Alas the electric windows, central locking, and power steering all failed and the sun visor fell off.
So you were better off with the cortina.
Seriously tho - yes you are right.
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128 was fairly terrible, a flimsy thing although like all Fiats it felt manly from the driver's seat. The Citroen GS was flimsy too and often owned by mimsers (I knew one of them, a South African actor, hack and film maker now dead alas, a real Soweto intellectual), but went like the wind in the right hands. I feel the C4 is its direct spiritual descendant.
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Sorry not up on archaic slang Lud will have to look mimser up! Bleep thanks for the websites and everyone else for their insights. Maybe when the Spring comes next year and the weather is better I will go of in search.
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Getting all misty eyed about "flawed 70s Gems"... cars that could be identified by the sound they made. The tearing calico exhaust note of the air cooled Citroens. The rorty sound of the Fiats and Alfas. They all had personalities then, unlike the consumer durable soulless machines of today. And they call it progress.....
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The 130 coupe was the one I hankered after. Sex on wheels that !
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This is a very good site for foreign fancies. French based classics website.
www.webmycar.com
Try also searching for Gazoline.
Edited by krs one on 14/11/2008 at 23:35
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A mate of mine had a Fiat 127 Sport (his Mums really, bought new). The first proper hot hatch I reckon. Bright orange with black trim. Loads of fun :-)
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My second car was a Fiat 127 GT, great, great fun.
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Somewhere around 1977 I had an occasional shot of a FIAT 850 coupe in a sort of burnt yellow colour. It belonged to a lady who became my first mother in law. We got on quite well at that time. The car was quite good fun too. It, and my relationship with her, eventually crumbled....
The car sounded and felt much faster than it actually was. This was an endearing feature of FIATs of that time. I seem to think the engine was in the back but at some time the mechanism for opening the "boot" had failed so it was thought best to leave that sort of thing to the garage on the very odd occasion it received any attention. You could almost watch the rust spreading, a bit like a cracked windscreen. Every day it seemed to have spread a little further.
;-)
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 15/11/2008 at 01:07
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Humph
A Fiat 850 coupe in Positano yellow was one of the prettiest small cars of the late 60's. Not surprised that it was considerably rusty by 1977 as I am sure they were long out of production by then. Rear engine indeed and very mildly tuned from standard 850 but it diid have the most wonderful dash with large speedometer and tachometer.
alfalfa
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I'm off on a business trip to Italy next week as it happens. I'm always pleased to see loads of old but clearly still very servicable FIATs when I'm there. Mk1 Pandas still abound. I know I shall come back wanting an Alfa 159 estate again but it will wear off in due course no doubt........
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I know I shall come back wanting an Alfa 159 estate again but it will wear off in due course no doubt........
Buy one HB. You know it makes sense. A V6 will be a better deal and perhaps a better drive, but if you're going to use it as a workhorse - to set off the tasselled suede casuals - the diesels are highly regarded. BazzaBear has a V6 and it was going fine last time he posted.
I have often felt that you might be losing the respect of some of your clients by driving a glamour-free (albeit admirable) Ford...
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It's sadly a Yin/Yang thing Lud. I am cursed with devastatingly good looks and charm so I have to have an unattractive car to balance things up. If I were to over egg things it would be too inconvenient to have to spend my time fending off the unwanted attentions of my female clients. We all have our crosses to bear and I don't want to seem complaining but one has to defend one's honour and keep things on a businesslike level by whatever methods are available.
Thank you for your kind thoughts though....
;-)
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 15/11/2008 at 17:27
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one has to defend one's honour and keep things on a businesslike level by whatever methods are available.
Ah I see. So the Mondeo in your case is the equivalent of a knee-length tweed skirt, thick stockings, sensible shoes, the wrong size of bra, no makeup and a pinched, dispproving demeanour?
I had forgotten, being past my best, what a burden transcendent, glowing beauty can be... But thanks for reminding me.
:~/_ _
Edited by Lud on 15/11/2008 at 17:37
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It is a trial Lud, but one I have come to learn to live with. Perhaps in another few years it will be safe to risk an Alfa...........sigh.........
;-)
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Because cars get better and better in all respects, I've never had the urge to buy something old. Old cars are rubbish compared with modern ones.
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This weeks Wheeler Dealers show was pretty good with Mike Brewer going to Italy and buying a 72 Fiat 500 for 2900 euro,it looked to be rust free.
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Didn't realise Wheeler Dealers was back on again can anyone tell me the date and channel? I have not seen that show for a long time.
I agree that small FIATs always felt faster than they were. My first car was a 1990 Uno 45 FIRE. Depite 999cc and 45 bhp, it felt lively and the engine was very revvy and responsive. I don't know about current Panda and 500 despite basic cars having the same engine as my Uno in bigger capacity form) My second car was a 106 1.1 which by that time came with single point injection and emissions regualtion and just didn't have any "zing" to the engine at all even though it was quite lively once you wound it up. Give me carbs any day!
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Sky - channel 240. 9pm, Tuesdays. (or 241 an hour later)
tinyurl.com/6ecevx
A 1981 series III Land Rover this coming Tuesday,
And a Citroen DS the week after.
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Just series linked it, otherwise I will forget - see IHAQ thread.
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We had a Fiat 127 and 128 in the family and I had two Alfasuds the last one being a 1.5Ti. All were cracking drives, with the best one possibly being the 128 which had that fantastic 1300 engine and a lovely boxy body with loads of room. Mind you my Alfas were pretty good but far less reliable. Although I quite fancy a Sud again, if I saw a mint 128 I would simply break the piggy bank. Something about them I really like.
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Gosh yes Espada, the 128. Lovely little car. I very nearly bought one once. Perhaps I should have but was lured away by a Triumph 1300 instead. It was also a rustbucket.
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FWD with clacking CV joints ??
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The Triumph 1300 was also FWD wasn't it? and had the same body as the Dolomite which was RWD? I loved the interior of those Triumphs, with segmented pie warning light circle in the middle. I thought it very sensible at the age of 13.
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And me, a very nostalgic article about them on the AustinRover website. Nice cars and very cleverly built. I used to have a lift to my holiday job in a Sprint - very sedately driven it was as well. On my wish-list.
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It never clacked on me but I didn't have it long. A Spitfire replaced it but I'm struggling to relate anything about that to this thread so.......
Edit Sorry E - Yes it was FWD and the Dolly was RWD
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 15/11/2008 at 19:17
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Relate away on the Spitfire all you want Humph...
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Thanks M - Not a great deal to say about it really except that it was probably the worst condition car I have ever bought. It was astonishingly cheap but even so.....
Front end had been replaced with a fibreglass nose
Front wheels were wires but the back ones were steel and much wider
At some time someone had trimmed the interior with deer skins fur left on. This formed the "carpet" , kinda weird.
Roof missing, made do with a tonneaux ( still can't spell that )
Lairy straight through exhaust
At some time it had been navy blue
Got a blacksmith to rig up a ski rack from the back bumper to the roll hoop which seemed to have been made from some old scaffolding.
Used it for a number of Glenshee and Aviemore trips still with no roof. Must have been dafter than I recall.
Kept it about six months and eventually sold it to some guy who came to my parents house to buy it. He paid cash and I went to the pub with the money. Got back mushlater to find my Dad in a right strop. The car had broken down about a mile into its new ownership and the bloke had come come back and persuaded my Dad to give him his money back........
:-(
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Saw one in July - forlornly parked on a suburban drive-way in Plymouth Mass. awaiting restoration.
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Was it blue with a ski rack ?
;-)
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White - with ridiculously large side reflectors
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Therefore a cousin from over the pond with genetically altered DNA. I wonder if the exhaust makes a strange twanging noise as well?
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www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/...5
Bit like this one ( Look into my eyes - sell the Ka by me !)
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Oooh er..........get thee behind me.....
Actually, just showed SWMBO. Big mistake....huge......
She'll be digging out those bungees before the nights out. Poor little mite. ( my son that is before I confuse everyone )
It's a honey isn't it ?
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a honey
Looks like a very nice one - BRG too! - although you'd have to cosy up to it a bit to know for sure.
Just look at those slurping SUs... It would be fun keeping it in proper fettle and piloting it among the modern carp, but it wouldn't be much quicker than a well-sorted Skoda Estelle...
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No they weren't all that quick even when they were seen as sporty. I remember tooling up towards the Forth road bridge at full tilt in mine feeling quite the rake when I was totally outgunned by an elderly lady in a Datsun 120Y or something like that. I didn't get a proper look because I was pretending not to notice and not wishing to draw the attention of my particularly scenic passenger to the humiliation........
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 15/11/2008 at 22:34
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Were you wearing socks that day ?
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Had to in that PU. ( nae roof )
:-(
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Bin the "slack" mobile. Bring on the Dolly !!
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You're a bad man PU.
I'm banned from that website. Not by the adminisphere on the web, by SWMBO.
Edited by gmac on 16/11/2008 at 09:34
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PU
How could you miss this.
www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/...8
Look at it, just look at it! It makes me feel like the first time I saw Fiona Richmond in Men Only. (sticking with the 70's theme you understand)
Edited by Altea Ego on 16/11/2008 at 10:44
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Is there a credit crunch in Holland ? I wonder.
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"How could you miss this"
You're Bad Man, too, AE. I was having a nice undisturbed Sunday until a few minutes ago...
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I saw this Fiat 127 700 miles gem at the September Beaulieu Autojumble - obviously still no buyer but quite amazing to view close up - both interior and exterior were like new. tinyurl.com/6ov9w5
My sister-in-law had a 1975 127 which was very rusty when only 5 years old.
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A lovely little car but I would be wary of buying a car that had such little use in 30 years even if it has been prepared again for the road. £5k is quite a lot of money as well, I don't think I would be prepared to pay that much!
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Quite true. The owner told me the rubber fuel filler pipe from the cap to the tank had rotted away!
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I had a number of Fiats years ago, Several Pandas that gave excellent service but needed to be kept updated because of the rust creeping through. However they were quite cheap and had a certain character. Did loads of trips from Hampshire to Yorkshire with no bother. I had a Mirafiori too and that went like the proverbial if you floored it....great fun but I haven't seen one on the road for years. Mine rusted sadly away and the headlights looked like a fish tank but it was a memorable car.
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Inboard brakes on an Alfa Sprint easy to fix???
I remember changing the pads for the first time and turning to my Alfasud Haynes manual page on changing pads it said 'first refer to chapter 7' Title of Chapter 7 'Removing engine and gear box'!!
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Just wondering why the owner of that FIAT 127 laid it up for 30 years instead of selling it or driving it. I note it was a competition prize.
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