The wife and I are planning our first trip to Europe in our own car in the New Year so I thought I would enlist the help of the good folk on this site to get a few pieces of advice. We're planning to drive to the German Alps and the Black Forest so most of the driving will be in Germany with some in France/Holland depending on whether we cross from Hull-Rotterdam or the Calais routes (we live in Leeds, incidentally). It will be after the winter (we're not going for the skiing).
Also, incidentally, I have driven on the right before in America but with a left hand drive hire car. I have never driven on the right in a right hand drive car.
Questions that spring to mind are :-
What do I need to take (other than a yellow jacket each and a warning triangle)?
What European atlas would you all reccommend? We have in-built sat-nav but would like a quality atlas as a back up/reserve.
Are there any particular driving tips for the above countries to take heed of?
Which is the easier route for a first timer to the Bavarian Alps - the one from Calais or the one from Rotterdam?
Is there anything I should be doing to/with the car itself in preparation for such a trip? It is a Saab 93 1.9 Diesel Convertible which will be around 2 years old when we go and will have about 24000 miles on the clock. Up to now it has been completely reliable.
Is there anything else I should know?
Sorry there's a lot but any help would be appreciated.
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Are you sure that your built in sat nav does Europe? The equivalent in the Vx Signum doesnt......
The AA website is pretty good for "what to do abroad" stuff, but remember they have a vested interest to sell you stuff.....
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portable satnavs (i've presumed yours is built into the car) have maps of Europe on them, but those maps don't cover small side roads and villages etc, so I had to pay to upgrade to a more thorough Europe map...don't know whether that's the same on a built in satnav i.e. you might need to upgrade the map if you want more quality
you are supposed to carry spare bulbs (even though modern cars are a bind changing them) and get your lights changed to ensure they dip the correct way
break down cover? AA for example guarantee an English speaker on the other end of the phone number
i prefer the Dover - Calais route, albeit a long way from you...because you tend to get there early and at ports where there is only one crossing you're waiting around for hours on end, whereas at Dover you get on the next ferry... and they go every hour
take a second credit card in case one gets cloned/cancelled/lost/damaged etc en route
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...don't forget to get a Green Card (although not all insurance companies call them that these days). Yoru policy will already give you cover to the lowest legal level in each EU country, but in some cases this is effectively lower than TPFT.
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The Hull ferry is a good way to start your holiday, I live nr Middlesbrough and have done both. The Hull ferry is pricey and I wouldnt like to be on it when the weather is rough because its a long time to be on a ship (12Hrs).
From Dover, if you collect Tesco vouchers you can get £4 for £1 of vouchers for Eurotunnel which is handy.
Route wise I would think the Calais route would be easier, as the French roads are generally quieter, though can't imagine there is much in it.
Required kit varies from country to country, but a warning triange, first aid kit and a GB sticker would be recommended.
Car wise just make sure it wont need a service whilst away, apart from that check the tyre pressures and fluids and that should cover it.
Not sure about atlases but I would imagine any would be ok.
Edited by PR {P} on 04/11/2008 at 19:59
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Driving on the wrong side of the road is easy as long as you concentrate when first starting, ie after coming out of a fuel station or first thing in the morning.
Beware in Germany on derestricted two lane autobahns, Porches at 170 mph arrive very quickly in your mirror!
Michelin maps and atlases are the best IMO.
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Just come back from italy, via france & switzerland (stelvio pass) (2000 miles)
Atlas? 2008 philips multiscale atlas of europe.. I use local Michelin (1cm=2km) for the area I am going to (purchase from Amazon before you go), and my TomTom 720. The Atlas is not your back-up reserve its your primary route planner before you go.
In car is a hi vis jacket for each passenger, bulb kit, first aid kit (you will one that meets the german TUV standard) warning triangle.
you will need your photocard driving license, your insurance and your proof of car ownership/authortiy to take out of country.
Service the car before you go, and enjoy! European Driving is fabulous.
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www.blueguides.com/
I have taken to using these. I have, what is to me, a priceless 1923 edition for North Eastern France which includes contemporary accounts of the Great War Battlefields - based on that book I bought the current ones - just as well written.
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PU,
Without wishing to hi-jack the thread, you might also be interested in these reprints of 1920s Michelin guides - I have the Somme ones and they have some wonderful photos and descriptions of the arae in early 1920s.
www.ghsmithbookshop.com/World-War-1-Books-Michelin...l
Phil
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you will need your photocard driving license
Always assumed I was OK with the paper one issued when I last moved in 1999. Carried every trip but never needed. Am I taking a risk?
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Any valid full UK license is fine paper or not providing you are 18+, if non photo carry your passport where possible.
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If you do go the Dover Calais route, watch your speed on the motorways within 100 miles of the port, unfortunately the brits have a reputation (somewhat deserved) for getting a tad carried away as we are not used to uncluttered roads, and Mr French plod keeps an eye out for us! Also do not get caught with a radar detection device! Also if you are not in a hurry, I would stay off the toll roads as the alternatives are quite clear usually but again, watch yr speed in villages as le plod will be there with their speed cameras, I actually like the french a lot for this, as they concentrate on vilages and towns, and if you are speeding there, you deserve to get caught! Also if you have not got a blind spot mirror on the LH side (tho I think the Saab has) get one from Halfords, cos those pesky foreign jonnies catch you up quick at times!
Edited by Pugugly on 04/11/2008 at 20:45
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Oh heck.... can I have a quid for every time I used the word also!
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Once in Germany be sure to make time to visit Ausfahrt. It's well signposted off the Autobahns.
;-)
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Once in Germany be sure to make time to visit Ausfahrt. It's well signposted off the Autobahns. ;-)
Its a huge place - coverers the whole of germany.
Likeways "Toutes directions" in France - I have never found it yet,
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Likeways "Toutes directions" in France - I have never found it yet
It's near Peage.
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The in built sat nav does cover Europe. I've even managed to programme in the actual hotel south of Munich but I would never be so naive as to trust it completely. And obviously, having never used it abroad, I don't know how detailed it is as regards side roads etc.
The other major reason for picking Germany first time over in Europe is that I speak German so can at least understand any of the signs. I, thus, know Ausfahrt very well!!!
How, by the way, do you know if a German Autobahn is derestricted? Is it merely a lack of speed limit signs? I have been on German Autobahns plenty of times on coaches and have still to see a sign indicating derestriction but have seen speed limit signs.
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You will see the National Speed Limit Applies sign (same as ours, black diagonal over white background) possibly with the stripe being over whatever the speed limit was (usually 130kph). I've driven the b it from Koln to Frankfurt a few times and it seemed to me that there are no really long stretches on that road, as the limits go back on around junctions. But I gather there are vast areas of de-restricted once you get further south.
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"Once in Germany be sure to make time to visit Ausfahrt. It's well signposted off the Autobahns."
Usually via Einbahnstrasse.
Hope your Auspuff stands up to the trip.
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You couldn't get much worse than an "Auspuffsproblem"!!!!!
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You couldn't get much worse than an "Auspuffsproblem"!!!!!
Less of an issue as a rule in a convertible.
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"Less of an issue as a rule in a convertible"
Depends whether your kupplung is working or kaput
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Good advice above and with regard to what you need (advised and compulsory) to take is to be found at
www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/index.html
With regard to route to Munich, we always went Dover - Calais and then across N France to Strasbourg. (Much easier than it used to be now with motorways - if you go non-motorway then there are lots of small villages, towns etc to pass through at 50kph).
From Strasbourg (very nice city) cross Rhine to Kehl then use B28 to Freudenstadt in Black Forest - very picturesque route. From ther to Stuttgart (well, the A8 anyway) and then east to Munich.
For more scenic route (and much much longer )you could go towards Ulm, then Fussen via mad King Ludwigs castles in Neuschwanstein area, over the Fern Pass (with its incredible blue lakes and great "driving" road) to Garmisch or Innsbruck then back up to Munich. Not really a direct route at all but would enable you to see much more of German Alps.
Some fantastic scenery in Bavaria - enjoy!!! You will come back wishing you had driven there before and determined to go again!
Phil
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Once in Germany be sure to make time to visit Ausfahrt. It's well signposted off the Autobahns. ;-)
Oh dear, that reminds me of the first time I drove in the Flemish-speaking part of Belgium, about 12 years ago; I kept wondering why this place Uitrit kept being signposted, and concluded that it must be a pretty substantial place, given that there seemed to be a sign for it at nearly every junction.
We then crossed into Wallonia; the signs started saying Sortie instead and the centime dropped...
Oops :-)
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.If you do go the Dover Calais route, watch your speed on the motorways within 100 miles >of the port, unfortunately the brits have a reputation (somewhat deserved) for getting a >tad carried away as we are not used to uncluttered roads, and Mr French plod keeps an ?>eye out for us! Also do not get caught with a radar detection device! Also if you are not in >a hurry, I would stay off the toll roads as the alternatives are quite clear usually but >again, watch yr speed in
Its about 30 euros in tolls from dover to strasbourg on the A26/A4. Its a very boring route too but fast. The A26 just before the last peage outside dover had a cop with camera, who stopped a DB9 at the peage. Mind i was doing a sat nav indicated 140kph, and he went past me like i was standing. The attendant at the peage and I had a good laugh. That was the only cop i saw who was bothered about speeding on the whole route there and back.
Be careful what time you hit strasbourg, it was hellishly busy and jammed on a Friday evening.
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You say you are going after winter but remember the Bavarian Alps can still receive 1 metre of snow over night in April. I've seen this at both Berchtesgaden and Garmisch.
You might need to think about winter tyres or snow chains depending on when exactly you are thinking of going.
If you are planning on visiting any cities (or passing close to the centre) you will need an umweltplakette. You can pick one up on route but will pay for the privilege, better to do it in advance, I got ours from Cologne for 5?, See here:
www.umwelt-plakette.de/foreign_cars.php?SID=pgd1d5...5
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Have you got a European Health Insurance Card?
Also if you stop off at any of the villages mentioned be very careful where you park!
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Never use Dover now...a pain from Manchester. Hull to Zeebrugge great, no rush to get to Hull, mini-cruise with a bed for the night, great food and off fresh in the morning at 8.30. Been regularly by motor=cycle to South Germany by this route. Always do it in 2 hits, Motorway to Nancy, stay in Ibis then over the hills to Freiburg and Titisee to The Bodensee where we camp. Great run. Will be off again in '09. have fun.
Ted
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Actually chaps/ chappesses, can I also say thanks for all the advice above, as am off to EuroDisney next week via the chunnel. Luckily have driven on the continent before, but not done RHD car on the continent since 2001.
The bit of the journey I dread the most is the M25, but this time won't really be driving too far in France anyway. From previous posts think will have to get another junior Hi Viz jacket, as at the moment only got 2 adults and 1 kids size. Had also slipped my mind to contact the insurers- but still thinking holiday is ages away, seems to have come up so fast.
Just not sure about the holiday itself though, got a feeling could be a bit of a mickey mouse company ;-)
Already had coat on before I wrote that.
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Thanks for all the info everybody - it's very useful and just makes you think that it's not quite as simple as just getting in the car. The environment "ticket" is a case in point. The map showing where the zones includes a lot of the Black Forest where I'm sure we will end up driving through at some point so you've saved me a potential fine there.
I'm actually really looking forward to it and imagine that the Alps areas will be pretty spectacular to drive through.
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Fly and hire a car there, easier quicker and probably cheaper. You'll be at your destination before you've even got your wheels onto foreign soil.
I drove to the French Alps a couple of years ago - never again - complete waste of 2 days each way.
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A couple of "just in case" items, since Sod's Law works twice as hard when you're away from home!
Spare clutch cable! RHD ones often impossible to get the other side of Calais.
Plastic/polycarbonate headlight covers (stick the beam deflectors, if applicable, onto them). German police will virtually impound your car if you (inexplicably) end up with a broken headlamp and, again, RHD headlamps are a tad thin on the ground in LHD countries!
A spare pair of specs if you wear them (not obligatory - used to be obligatory in Spain till a few years ago - but still a good idea.)
And the "Give way to the right" rule still holds in some places can't remember exactly where, but it's common in built-up areas in many parts of Germany; usually when there is no other marking indicating priority.
Finally, do what most foreign travellers do in Europe these days - keep dipped headlamps on all the time. It wil help alert locals to a foreign driver unfamiliar with roads.
Gute Reise!
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On the money side it could be worth telling your credit and debit card providers that you are going abroad. Some of them, certainly B'Card, check your card use locations and if you card is normally used round Happytown UK for supermarkets and petrol and is suddenly buying swanky meals in Paris they might at least phone you to ask if all is well. One aspect of the surveillance society I don't object to! I also recommend Travelex for your euros; they guarnatee the best rate and you can collect at airports and tthe Tunnel terminal, I am no sure about Dover Docks though
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I meant to include the link to Stadt Koeln. You can order from here for 5?
stadt-koeln.de/imperia/md/content/pdfdateien/pdf57/umweltzone/21.pdf
Edited by gmac on 05/11/2008 at 21:34
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@OP: From Leeds, I would definitely take the Hull - Rotterdam ferry as the drive to Dover or Folkestone is a nightmare. From Rotterdam, I would drive towards Arnhem and into Germany onto the A3 towards Duisburg and Koeln. You can also go via Nijmegen which I think is shorter, but you spend more time on congested and speed restricted dutch motorways by going this way.
If you want to visit the alps and the black forest and have a lot of time on your hands, you can take the A3 from Koeln to Frankfurt, then the A5 towards Freiburg which is deep in the Black Forest and a very nice part of the world. You can then take the B31 via Titisee to Ueberlingen and then along Bodensee (Lake Konstanz) to Friedrichshafen and then Lindau. This is not a fast route but the scenery is breathtaking, especially if you have the opportunity to experience a sunset over the Bodensee at the peninsular of Lindau. From there you can take the A96 to Munich. A faster route is either the A3 all the way to Nuernberg and then the A9 to Munich or the A5 from Frankfurt to Karlsruhe and then the A8 to Munich via Ulm.
From Munich you have good access to the western and eastern german alps via autobahn and train. I live in Munich and I normally leave the car at home and take the train, it's convenient, comfortable and reasonably priced and the roads going south to the ski resorts can get very congested, especially at weekends.
If you are coming to southern Germany in the winter time, you really need winter tyres. It can get down to below -20C in January/ February and snowfall is always highly likely, especially in the ski resorts (obviously), Bodensee and the higher stretches of autobahn such as the A8 near Ulm, where 60cm of snow fell this year in 2 days in April. You can also take a set of snow chains but I've never had to use them, even in ski resorts.
Other than that, no problems driving here in a RHD vehicle. It goes without saying that high speed driving on the autobahn will take its toll on the brakes.
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Some good advice here. Do youself a favour and 'Always' park either on the RHS of the road or is in a car park, reverse into the space or drive through so that you will be setting off again nose first. This avoids the reversinging into the potential flow of travel and then when setting off forward there is less confusion about which side you should be on, paticularly first thing in the morning. Regards Peter
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That reminds me of the first time I went to the Czech Republic - I was happily driving round a supermarket carpark wondering why I was getting funny looks - of course I'd driven in and automatically turned the British way round... in a carpark you can just about get away with it but don't try it at a T junction on a main road!
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Watch out if you drive through Brussels. A lot of the silly so and sos there still stick to the old "Priorite a Droite" system. In fact, it might even still be in place in Belgium? Anyone know for sure? Be careful in Belgium anyway. I have found they are the worst tailgaters, speeders, non-indicators and generally most selfish and unpredictable drivers in Europe. Including Naples.
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Never noticed the pririte a droite when driving over there but would agree with their general conduct, its nearly as bad as driving here in the UK... but not quite... we are still the worst!
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One other thing to remember is to reverse the whole process when you return to UK. After my first time driving on the continent in a RHD drive car (was the tender age of 18 at the time) got back, went out with a mate, and driving down a country lane had to pull over for a van coming the other way. Van driver gave me a very odd look, and friend looked rather perturbed. Asked what was up to be told was driving on the wrong side of the road. After a short argument about this, friend asked the simple question "What side of the road are we parked on?". Drove on with a lot more carefully.
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Something that no-one else has mentioned is that you must ensure you use neat antifreeze in your washer bottle - the roads get very cruddy, and last winter the temps were down to minus 13 degrees. You will find that firstly, you'll need to clean your screen often, and secondly, if your washer fluid freezes you will end up with zero vision unless you have some fluid with a decently low freezing point. They sell special stuff for winter which doesn't freeze until minus 60......
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I drive my RHD car fairly often in continental Europe and the location of the steering wheel doesn't make a lot of difference at all to normal progress. Just a wee bit more care needed when overtaking on fast A or B type roads.
I was reminded though, of when my now wife and I used to take our sadly missed Westfield on long European holidays. Luggage space was clearly at a premium but we got by by bungeeing a holdall on top of the spare wheel. This worked well enough but completely obscured the rearview mirror. The sidescreens were plastic and especially night vision through them could be compromised. It became second nature for whoever was driving to ask for confirmation from the passenger that it was safe to overtake or whatever.
For the first day or two of the first trip, I would ask "Can I go ?" to which my wife would reply "Go" or "No". The fatal ( metaphorically speaking I'm delighted to say ) flaw in this was the similarity of those two words above the sound of windrush and a straight through side mounted exhaust........ Still, it rather obviated the need to find space to pack laxatives anyway.....
Fairly quickly we decided to change the confirmation response to "Clear" or "No". This proved to be a much more relaxing technique......
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 05/11/2008 at 22:12
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Do not underestimate winter preparation, especially the screenwash and winter tyres.
I have spent a few winters recently working in south germany.
Jan-Feb is mainly below freezing until the afternoon...
The German law changed last year to insist on "appropriate tyres" (anpassende Bereifung).
There is a small fine if you use summer tyres when there is snow, but generally you will find the roads impassable, and you may be prohibited from driving further, if stopped.
I would certainly not attempt any mountain roads (black forest/alps) with summer tyres.
Ask your contacts if the places you visit require winter tyres, or if all-year tyres ( (Ganzjahresreifen) are acceptable locally.
Regarding the ?5 eco-tax (Umweltplakette)
More info in English here:
tinyurl.com/6q3hb4
These are mainly city centres.
You can get them at almost any garage.
Edited by NVH on 06/11/2008 at 10:16
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I often drive in the Black Forest so I'll just add my twopennerth worth.
It's a lovely area.....
Last Easter, it put down so much snow in the Todtmos area in 48 hours that I had to follow a snow plough to get down into the valley and home. This isn't that common, and when it does happen they are efficient with the snow plough.
Locals drive very (I do mean 'very') fast on twisty roads they know inside out. If you're in holiday mode, you'll probably end-up pulling over to let them past (not that this is a problem......).
The best home-made cakes in the Todtmos region are in Cafe Maier on the main road through Todtmos (and incredibly cheap).
There are bars/clubs where there are groups of men wearing white t-shirts, dungarees and baseball caps (Schwarzewald Spitze in Todtmos comes to mind). They're 'forestry-type' workers, drinking lots of beer (drink driving is part of the local culture). If you start to feel like you've drifted into a scene from Southern Comfort or Deliverance, Fribourg is a lovely city (well, large town) and represents 'civilisation' not too far away.
Don't plan to be on a diet.
Have a great time.
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I just want to add the following two points to all the good advice above:
Absolutely one of the most dangerous times for a leftie driving on the right anywhere, is when you pull out of a car park on to the carriageway, especially at night. Instinct will direct you to the left, especially if the road is unlined and empty - this is very important to remember, it can obviously be fatal.
All over Europe, except the UK as far as I can remember, you will be required to give way to traffic coming in from the right - even from minor roads. The standard road sign showing priority is a square yellow sign with a broad white border mounted diagonally, i.e. points at 12,3,6 & 9 o'clock. But if you meet the same sign with a broad black diagonal stripe, beware - you no longer have priority and cars can suddenly appear from nowhere, expecting you to give way. This rule is a real killer for the unitiated so keep your eyes open.
BB
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Bill Black>> All over Europe except the UK as far as I can remember you will berequired to give way to traffic coming in from the right - even from minor roads. The standard road sign showing priority is a square yellow sign with a broad white border mounted diagonally i.e. points at 12 3 6 & 9 o'clock. But if you meet the same sign with a broad black diagonal stripe beware - you no longer have priority and cars can suddenly appear from nowhere expecting you to give way. This rule is a real killer for the unitiated so keep your eyes open.
Not really. This only practically applies in France (although the funny yellow signs are widely used in other European countries, they are universally used so that the law is effectively the same as the UK). These days you are only likely to find it in the town centre of small towns, where just OCCASIONALLY you will discover that a side road to your right has no Stop/Giveway sign, and so you will have to yield to the sideroad.
It's quite like the UK unmarked crossroad; except priority is automatically given to the car approaching you from the right.
Much more likely (if you're driving carefully) you will be waiting to turn out of a side-road, and suddenly somebody will stop to let you out in front of them, and you won't understand why; the car behind you will also be blowing his horn at you.
The days of tractors turning onto main roads and expecting you to stop for them are long gone.
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Not really. This only practically applies in France (although the funny yellow signs are widely used in other European countries they are universally used so that the law is effectively the same as the UK). These days you are only likely to find it in the town centre of small towns where just OCCASIONALLY you will discover that a side road to your right has no Stop/Giveway sign and so you will have to yield to the sideroad.>> etc. etc.
Mapmaker, I'm not interested in starting a debate about this, but after a recent fortnights driving holiday around the Riviera I disagree with your comments entirely and why anybody would bother to challenge this sort of advice beats me.
In all the Scandinavian countries the situation is as I've described, where even in the event of a resulting collision with even just material damage, the driver at fault will almost certainly be relieved of his license on the spot, and Scandinavia remains a part of Europe, as far as I know.
My advice was accurate and well meant, so ignore it at your peril.
BB
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For all those recommending snow tyres, super-concentrated screenwash etc., OP did point out that
It will be after the winter (we're not going for the skiing).
Michelin European Atlas. The AA one is pants...
If you go to Calais, and are spending time in France, get the Michelin 1:200,000 Atlas of France - the same maps as the maps PU was recommending, but you get the whole of France for the price of a couple of sheets - it's about an inch thick and gives you the freedom to go off-piste wherever you are without getting lost! You need one yellow reflective jacket for France, accessible to the driver, not stuck in the boot.
On the other hand, from Leeds I'd be tempted to go Hull-Rotterdam. German roads are full and busy, though, and their autobahns are hard work (you think BMW drivers over here are bad???) Germans are courteous and law-abiding drivers, generally, though.
That said, French driving is much easier, so maybe the Dover-Calais route is better (go A1, M11, not M1 from Leeds)
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im not helping here
but the only times ive done any significant driving in mainland europe ive hired a car the other side of the channel
for me driving a rhd car over there is just too much risk to my life that i just wouldnt be prepared to take
and its never really been much more expensive than taking a uk car over all things considered
driving in usa is nothing at all like mainland europe, for one thing the roads are wider and slower in the usa and everyone is much more respectful of each other after all they all have handguns in the glovebox
dont think youll have much problem where youre going, if you were going to italy i would very much recommend not driving, its a whole different mindset
good luck
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Someone above said park rear end in so you drive out forwards in a car park.
It may have changed but probably not so beware in some parts/towms of Germany it is against the law to aim your rear end at a building whether there is a footpath between you and the building or not.
I got away with a severe finger wagging.
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I'm not getting into the debate either, BB, but I'm with Mapmaker on the junctions thing, certainly over northern France, Benelux, Holland, Czech Republic and Germany.... and over 20k miles in those countries over the past few years in a RHD car... things might be different on the south coast of France, though, I haven't driven down there since 1983!
Edited by b308 on 07/11/2008 at 05:16
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b308: Then consider yourself somewhat lucky not to have had a scrape. The general rule in Germany is that away from the main roads, give way to the right still rules, particularly in areas where there is a 30 kmh limit.
BIG
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>if you were going to italy i would very much recommend not driving, its a whole different mindset
Been driving a lot in Italy in the last two years in R/H drive cars and local hire cars, North and south. With the exception of Naples its no worse than London and the M25. and would never consider not driving there.
What's wrong with having a R/H drive car abroad anyway? Its a pain at Tolls but apart from that its fine and dandy.
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What's wrong with having a R/H drive car abroad anyway?
It has significant advantages;
in tight situations in small french villages that are littered with kerb side obstacles and irregular gulleys, you can get very 'tight right' without fear!
I believe that that 45 years of driving a rhd car you aquire an 'intuitive' knowledge of the 'width to the left' but which takes significant time to aquire in a 'mirror situation'
This is born out (living part time in France) by the number of full time expats with damage to the rhs of their lhd cars! (including one friends write off, having gulleyed a rh front wheel at 50 k in a village).
Overtaking is not really an issue, the French generally drive faster than I wish to, particularly on roads lined with unmovable objects, generally decorated with floral tributes at regular intervals.
For France a 'Telepeage' takes away the motorway inconvenience anyway. Car parks however are more of a pain.
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For all those recommending snow tyres super-concentrated screenwash etc. OP did point out that It will be after the winter (we're not going for the skiing).
Don't underestimate the weather. . . .
We went over to France (East of Geneva) three years ago in May, got up on Sunday morning and it had snowed.
Same trip we found minor roads with two feet of snow on them.
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LIke ijws 15 I've experienced severe winter weather well after the ski season. In my case in the Auvergne near Le Mont Dore at Easter (ie mid April).
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We drove from down to Mori in Northern Italy in September, through France, Belgium, Germany and Austria. A 2200 mile round trip including the sightseeing while there, and the bulk of the journey was in Germany.
Brilliant lane discipline, terrifying speeds attained by 911s and big Mercs on the derestricted sections, but generally very pleasant to drive. Driving on the right quickly becomes second nature, but you really have to remind yourself for a while on single carriageways with no other traffic around. Doesn't take too long to get used to it though.
Interestingly, we got from our front door all the way to our destination 1000 miles away, and all the way back to Dover without showing a single piece of paperwork, passports included. That said, we weren't pulled and didn't have any incidents.
If you get as far as Austria, you'll need a Vignette to use the motorways. Available from any service station, and a 10 day windscreen sticker costs ?7.70. Again this was never checked, but the fine is allegedly hefty if you don't have one.
I enjoy driving in mainland Europe very much, and would recommend it to anyone. It's nice to have the opportunity to take the car up over a ton perfectly legally as well.
Cheers
DP
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With the whole winter tyres thing where do Germans store the spare set of tyres when they're not using them. Must be a bit annoying if you don't have a garage having a stack fo 4 tyres in the spare room...or are they remarkably efficient and have a winter tyre storage facility that keeps them for you...(and nodoubt has a suitably German compound word - placeforthestoringoftyresforthewinter...or some such)
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With the whole winter tyres thing where do Germans store the spare set of tyres when they're not using them.
Well I use the local tyre fitter to store the spare set of wheels and tyres for my own car and the local BMW dealer is entrusted with the wheels and tyres for my company car.
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egensieumsiewinterreifenimsommerzuversorgen
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Warenhausfurwinterundsommerradenzulassenalsmannichtbrauchtdieanderenfu
reinbischenzeitplatz.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 08/11/2008 at 10:22
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Grosseshelfenumzustickenseinwinterodersommerreifendurchzeietendieander
ensindnichtaufseinautoszumbeispielalsesgibtschneeimwinteroderesistwarm
imsommerundsoweiter....
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 08/11/2008 at 10:42
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felgenbaum unter die Treppe (Stiege)
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Seem to want to think that a lot of German houses have cellars. Also want to think that someone told me it was to do with being more than averagely concious of the cold war and having somewhere to go if it all kicked off.
These would of course be splendid places to store unused wheels and tyres. Not allowed to wash your car outside your house either I gather. Funny place, but I quite like it.
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Seem to want to think that a lot of German houses have cellars.
An architect friend of mine told me not to buy a house without a cellar. The ground is generally soft/sandy and houses without cellars are built on foundations 90cms deep which move and crack on the soft ground.
Houses with cellars have deeper foundations where the ground is more solid. Less likely to subside.
In cities the blocks of flats have multi level car parks built underground as they need to go deep for the foundations and to help local parking.
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Friends experienced the autoroute blocked by snow drifts (sationary for over 4 hrs) on the A75 north of Millau 10 days ago. When it started to get dark they were getting a little anxious until the snow ploughs arrived.
Like B'naut I have seen 1m of snow close by Mont Dore after easter, late April/early May.
Worth doing your weather homework before any long journey.
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I'm a bit concerned over this snow business! I have a trip to Vienna planned for December using the Aachen/ Koln/ Frankfurt/ Wurzburg route (A3). Anyone any experience of this route at this time of year?
I have new Continentals on the car, a tyre I have found to work quite well in Scottish winters.
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Try //wetter.rtl.de/ for the weather.
This website covers Germany, Austria and Switzerland.
In my experience, but that counts for nothing with the weather, Cologne down to Bavaria is usually just wet. If there is ice and snow, it usually comes in Feb./Mar. time.
The Germans uncharacteristically went a bit vague when they changed the law a year or two ago. All they said was cars have to be prepared for the time of year so if it is a mild or wet winter you don't need winter tyres.
Locals generally switch to them from end of October to Easter so they don't get caught out.
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