Citroen Saxo (1997 - 2003) - 98 1.1 (petrol) Engine stalls/spontaneously revs | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

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Tue 4 Nov 2008 15:09

98 1.1 (petrol) Engine stalls/spontaneously revs - CelicaStephen

OK, this is an S registration Saxo. Regularly serviced, well-maintained (on the whole!).

There are two engine problems, possibly related. This is my partner's car, so I don't drive it much...what I'm reporting is based on a combination of her description of what happens, and my experiences when I have driven it.

The first problem is that it will often lose power, frequently to the point of stalling. This seems to happen more often on overrun, but will sometimes do it apparently spontaneously. It can normally be kept running with a little judicious nursing of the throttle, then the problem passes and it's running fine again.

The second problem is a little more mysterious. At some point - which seems to be more often when the engine is warm - the engine will start regularly revving, as if someone is blipping the throttle. It happens slightly more often than once a second, and doesn't rev highly, just to a couple of thousand revs or so. This can go on for quite a few seconds, maybe a minute. Again, it's spontaneous: I haven't been able to link it to any particular situation on the road, and it comes and goes quite independently of anything the driver is doing.

They're both somewhat troubling, as the first problem can suddenly leave the car without power, and the second, especially if it occurs while the car's in traffic, makes it more difficult to control moving away from rest and low-speed manoeuvring.

My partner's mentioned it to the garage, who've done a spot of the old teeth-sucking and suggested it's something to do with an "air box" (?associated with the carb?), and indicated that it's likely to be an expensive fix. If nothing else, I'd like to know a little more about what this might be, and perhaps some pointers if anyone's got any ideas.

FWIW, the brakes are terrible (though pass the MOT nicely) - perhaps I'm just spoiled by my Celica, but I always have a few heartstop moments whenever I first try to stop the Saxo on the fairly rare occasions that I do drive it! I'm going to try out the top tip about adjusting the pedal adjuster mentioned on the car-by-car page...

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Tue 4 Nov 2008 15:15

98 1.1 (petrol) Engine stalls/spontaneously revs - Screwloose

What make of plugs are in it? Have you ever had the fault-codes read?

The surging at idle could be an air leak - and the brake effort is high.... Possible servo diaphragm/pipe leak?

Can't think what the garage mean about "air-box" - unless it's broken in some way?

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Tue 4 Nov 2008 15:39

98 1.1 (petrol) Engine stalls/spontaneously revs - madf

Read
www.bba-reman.com/peugeotfaults.htm

The first fault sounds like icing up. Been there , had it,
Usually due to an air leak: badly fitted air filter or the vacuum pipes fitted to air filter housing - used to switch on/off air supply from heated exhaust manifold or plain cold - are split or have fallen off.

Second fault could be related to first...

Saxo barkes also suffer badly - if underused from rusting of the pads/pad retaining pins in their housing stopping both pads being applied equally or rusty discs/worn pads or all three...Been there as well..:-(

Edited by madf on 04/11/2008 at 15:41

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Tue 4 Nov 2008 16:30

98 1.1 (petrol) Engine stalls/spontaneously revs - CelicaStephen

Thanks for that, madf! And, no, screwloose, I don't believe the fault codes ever have been read: I may chat up the garage and ask them if they'd mind doing that. No idea what plugs are fitted, but I can check - from the sound of other posts, it's a good idea to fit only the Citroen-branded plugs, is that correct?

Madf - the link you posted refers to Peugeots: I'm guessing that Citroens use Peugeot engines? Presumably I need to take a look at the ECU and confirm that it's a Sagem part in case it's that? It looks as if the fault I'm describing could be the injector issue that's second on the list, too...

Actually, looking at this, I reckon I can try stuff in ascending order of price! :)

* Check for proper fitting and condition of air filter and vacuum pipes
* Check for proper operation of brake servo
* Replace injectors
* Replace ECU

Then I'll take a look at the physical condition of the brakes.

Thanks very much, both of you. I'll try and remember to report back with the results...

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Tue 25 Nov 2008 11:30

98 1.1 (petrol) Engine stalls/spontaneously revs - hiso

am currently experiencing a similar problem, particularly the self-revving. Garage have done an analysis and say it's the idle control valve. Can get a new one for about £32 inc p&p (partsdome, ebay) and fitting looks fairly straightforward. It should work without 'resetting' although garage suggests it may need to be run in.

hiso

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Wed 26 Nov 2008 21:29

98 1.1 (petrol) Engine stalls/spontaneously revs - Nige 101

I am pretty sure the variable revving is the idle stepper motor - had the same problem on an R reg 1.1 recently - £15 from the scrappy - dont know how much a new one is - make sure you have the right number of pins on the replacement - they do vary. Easy to change - think its just three torx screws.

I think the other issue could be the crank sensor - worth a try as its around £14. (new)
My mates furio had this problem and was cured. Sadly we had fitted new coil and lambda sensor first!!!!

You are right about about the brakes - they are always terrible.

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Wed 29 Apr 2009 14:37

98 1.1 (petrol) Engine stalls/spontaneously revs - moke9451

Hi,

My N reg ZX 1.4i has had running problems as well. She starts OK from cold, but was hunting between 1500 and 2000 revs, or revving up to 3000 revs spontaneously. She'd also die on the overrun, and was a pink fluffy dice to start.

I stripped down and cleaned the throttle steeper motor, which worked for a while.

Then I had to continually reset the stepper motor, but finally she would just die whenever I took my foot off the throttle, always at traffic lights or junctions. Finally I had to let her cool down before she would start again, but at the next junction, or if I let the revs drop below 2500, she would die again.

I removed the throttle body and discovered that the gasket was faulty, causing an air leak. I couldn't get one right away, so I bought some gasket paper and cut my own.

After replacing the gasket and the throttle body I went through the following to reset the system.

Ignition ON and OFF. Wait 60 seconds; disconnect battery, reconnect battery to reset ECU to default; ignition ON, press accelerator pedal to floor and release 5 times;ignition OFF; ignition ON; headlights ON and OFF once; ignition ON for 10 seconds then OFF; repeat twice more; start engine.

If you disconnect the battery, make sure you have the radio code. Also when resetting the ECU, it can cause a problem if one or more of the sensors are faulty.

Hope this helps other people with similar problems.

Mike

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 29/04/2009 at 14:46

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Tue 24 Jan 2012 13:05

98 1.1 (petrol) Engine stalls/spontaneously revs - CelicaStephen

Some way down the line on this one, now!

The car developed a new problem - it just wouldn't idle, but stalled every time you took your foot off the throttle.

I used a very scientific way of solving the problem: I started replacing bits in order of how expensive they were! So, first on was the temperature sensor, which seemed to make a slight difference, but not much. Next was the idle control valve, which has made a difference - the car certainly starts and idles much more happily.

But it still seems to do that traditional Saxo thing of - sometimes - not idling when warm.

So I'm into Phase II! First has been the realisation that split or leaky vacuum hoses are a bit of a regular issue for Saxos, so I've replaced them, and am quietly hoping that that has made a difference. Also, we had a new exhaust fitted, which sounds a lot like it's blowing, although I can't see/hear any obvious site of a leak. I'd imagine that an exhaust leak could well have an effect on how the engine runs - any thoughts welcome, although I am going to fix it anyway...

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Tue 24 Jan 2012 14:10

98 1.1 (petrol) Engine stalls/spontaneously revs - ChannelZ

My 2002 106 1.1i had this problem basically from new. Dealers replaced just about everything, no result. After over a year of f***ing about the EML came on. Fault reported secondard O2 sensor out of range. Replaced the O2 sensor and never had a problem after that.

They'd replaced inlet manifold, stepper motor, pipes, coil pack, plugs, ICV, reflashed ECU, the lot. £20 part fixed it.

Oddly, the car's back box basiclly exploded 6 days after I got the car brand new. No idea what went wrong, but it took them 6 weeks to get a new exhaust. Perhaps they damaged the O2 sensor when replacing the exhaust?

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Sat 28 Jan 2012 15:24

98 1.1 (petrol) Engine stalls/spontaneously revs - Theunisse

I can echo what everyone has said about Saxo brakes they are dreadful. When I got mine a few years back I changed discs, pads, brake fluid and adjusted the rear drums and they were no better.
Learned to drive a bit further back from the car in front!

Edited by Theunisse on 28/01/2012 at 15:26

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