Simon,
Could it be that the vibrations occur as a result of the engine speed being pulled down slightly when static in Drive? i.e. do the vibrations disappear if the engine is speeded up slightly whilst in Drive?
I did once read a comment from a non-qualified person that automatics shouldn't be left idling in Neutral but I have never seen this in any car handbook or manual and I almost always drop into Neutral at traffic lights or railway crossings. Unless your handbook advises differently I see no reason for not idling in Neutral - I would have thought that's what it is for.
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I have a 100k 2.5V6 CDX Auto, which I never bothered to change the oil, given Vauxhall didn't recommend doing so, and it cost £150 for the change.
Unfortunately I am £1500 down after replacing my autobox with a manual since, due to a badly needed oil change, I burnt out 3rd gear. Prior to meltdown the car was fine, the box changing ever so smoothly.
Changing the oil makes a hell of a lot of sense though, oil does not last forever, and refreshing it cannot do any harm. Every 20k maybe both expensive and excessive given its not on the service schedule, but perhaps at 50-60k.
For me that was an expensive mistake!
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Crombster, you say that oil does not last forever, but it lasted quite a long while (in crude form) whilst underground!
More seriously, I would be interested in knowing what actually burnt out. Was it a brake band, or was it the failure of a solenoid or a valve? I would also be interested to know how the lack of changing the fluid caused this. I'm not disputing what you say but would just like to know the whys and wherefores before I mentally file your unfortunate experience for the future.
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Yikes, you got me nervous now! £150 is rather a lot for an oil change, but having consulted the haynes manual I can see its a messy job and requires a ramp. Perhaps I'll shop around a few places to see if I can get a good deal. Definitely its sensible to get it changed, but I also wonder if your disaster was down to the oil cooler? Isnt there any warning systems on the omega should the oil temperature in the box increase too much or if the level is down? I would have thought so.......
Simon
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The manual for a Rover 827 I had (91MY) recommended putting the car into neutral if you were going to stand still for more than about 30 seconds.
I believe that if you keep it in drive whilst stationary, you are simply working the converter and heating the fluid for no useful effect. It may even be more economic to drop into neutral as the engine will be able to drop to its natural idle speed. I understand that some modern autos can effectively do this for you through electronic control.
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I've just contacted a local auto transmission specialist and they quoted about £70 to change the automatic box oil and filter on the omega. Is that reasonable and is there any risk in doing so? (think I'm paranoid now about my auto box going bang!)
S.
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Oil lasts forever yeah? Ok, see the oil filler cap on your engine, superglue it shut, and report back in a few years time?!?!
I was told the clutch on the third gear had burnt out, diagnosed by the specialist test driving it. The oil inside was also black (perhaps it was all the time the oil has spent underground).
There are two different prices for changing the oil on the Omega's autobox, apparently two different boxes exist and one is harder to perform an oil change. If you need to remove the sump its £150 at Vauxhall rates, and £50-70 if you have the other box.
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I agree that the oil cannot last forever. Having looked around at autobox oils, they are rated to "almost indefinitely", though the definition of this is about 100,000 miles assuming they are operating at their intended temperature of 175 deg F. As a rule of thumb, every 20 deg F increase in fluid temperature will cut its life in half! Hence I think the chances of the fluid requiring a change at around 100,000 miles is extremely likely. The omega I have is a 99 model, there's no dipstick and no filling aperture for the oil. According to the autobox specialist it is necessary to remove both oil sumps and then drain as much of the fluid as possible, also replace the filter and clean the "magnet". Refilling is a pain as it has to be done through the drain level plug orifice a little at a time.
I am pretty confident that it SHOULD be changed despite vauxhalls advice, though I get a few conflicting reports from other mechanics (not auto specialists) that changing it often causes problems.
I think its best to err on the side of caution though and have it replaced, provided its done by a specialist who knows what he's doing.
S.
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Crombster, I'm not surprised that my slightly controversial posting drew a sarcastic response!
Regarding the life of oil, I'm sure you know that there is a huge difference between oil in an engine and oil in a gearbox. In a gearbox there shouldn't be any nasty chemicals formed, nor should there be burning of the oil or any polymers that it might contain. There will be a very small residue from the brake bands in normal wear but I'm sure this would not cause problems. Any other contaminents mean that there is already a problem that simply changing the oil won't cure.
You still haven't backed up your claim that the gearbox failed because you didn't change the oil. I suspect that your oil was black because it had overheated, which can be caused in four ways:
1. Low fluid level (this can happen if the filler cap is superglued on!).
2. Brake band slipping (as with your car?).
3. Torque converter uni-directional clutch seized (very rare).
4. Flooring the accelerator in Drive for more than a few seconds with the car held on the brakes (hopefully even rarer!).
Items 1, 2 & 3 will be obvious because they will affect the way the car drives. Item 4 is simply asking for trouble!
I'm sure it can't do any harm to change the oil in a gearbox, and it could possibly do good, so long as care is taken to use the correct oil and make sure no dirt gets in. What I was trying to say to Simon (svpworld) was that there is no need to lose sleep if the oil hasn't been changed so long as the manufacturer doesn't recommend a change.
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Whether you need to change it or not, at high mileages it would be foolish to ignore autobox oil quality/levels.
If it was black because it overheated, then it needs changed, If the level is low, then it needs topped up. Therefore it would be unwise not to check gearbox oil and shouldnt be seen as a maintainance free component.
Checking the quality of the oil may also provide an indicatation of developing problems, which if caught early on could save on expensive repair bills.
I wont be neglecting an autobox again!
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Good news on my auto box, had the oil checked today at a local transmission specialist as I waited. Pleased to say level is fine and oil is a nice clear red colour and not dark at all, looks quite fresh infact! He also didn't charge for checking it, where as the Vauxhall dealer wanted £50 just to check it! Anyway at least I wont lose any sleep now, though I expect I'll have it changed in the not too distant future, just as a safeguard. Also its good to wait around at the garage and inspect the car myself when its on the ramp. Other than a little corrosion on the back of the exhaust and small amount of static grease/oil near the back differential (mechanic said it was nothing to worry about), all looks sound.
Incidentally I often find after washing my car or when its raining that the car mists up very easily, compared to my previous cavalier. The air con demists it fast, but even so I am surprised why it mists so quick. Do I need to replace my pollen filter? I checked the plug drain hole (drivers side) which seems fine, anything else I should check?
Regards
Simon
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SVPworld (incorporating PSRworld)
www.svpworld.com
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Hello All,
I have read through your postings with interest and would like to ask your advice on the problem I am having with my Automatic Omega (Its similar to the issues reported here so don't want to start a new thread).
Its a 96P, 2.5 TD Automatic, with 96K on the clock. Have had it for about a year, with no major probs. Now, I've noticed the gearbox has started slipping, initially just every once in a while, but over the last few days, its happening every time I use the car, though not every time I stop/start. The slipping is quite specific, always in first gear from idle. The engine just revs (as if in neutral) for, say, between 2 - 3 seconds, and then gradually (over say 1 second), the transmission "engages" and the car moves off. If you keep the revs high while it slips, then when it engages, it can be quite jerky, producing a small amount of tyre screech on one occasion!! I have learnt to take my foot off the gas, wait a few seconds, and then its ok.
I have also noticed that if you slow down slowly, and wait (like if at a junction), then its ok when you start off again. On the other hand, if you brake quickly, come to a stop, and then accelerate, all within a short time period, it nearly always slips, as if something within the gearbox has not had time to "recover" from whatever is causing the slip?
It doesn't seem to make any difference if the engine/gearbox is hot or cold.
Now, related to the issue of checking oil levels, I read somewhere that low oil levels can lead to slipping. I get
the impression checking the auto box oil level is not something that is easily done, may be more so on the Diesel engine ?
Failing that, I suspect its something more sinister :-( . I would appreciate your advice before taking it to the garage, I don't claim to be auto mechanically minded, and would like to be armed with, at least the impression of some knowledge, before approaching the "rogues" on the high street :-)
Many Thanks
Lee
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autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/omega_owners/
has had some detailed discussions in the past on ATF.
Have you changed the fluid? If not hurry up before it's too late, and make sure it is Dexron IIIG, Dexron IV or Texaco ETL 7045E, other wise you can experience shuddering and slippage.
There is also a filter which could be blocked leading to low hydrailic pressure, and also a band brake adjustment which you set to 5Nm with a torque wrench with the sump removed.
Good luck!
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Thanks for the prompt reply, I shall print your message out and take it with me to the garage!
Excuse my ignorance, but what is ATF ? Can you point me to where these discussions are ?
Cheers
Lee
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ATF - Automatic Trans Fluid.
Change it. Auto cars I've had always specify a need to change. (Audi 100; W123 Merc.). 30k miles or 3 years, iirc.
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Vauxhall say that this transmission is life-time filled with a long-lasting oil, but it can be replaced every 70,000 miles if the vehicle is used as a Police car or taxi etc...
Obviously nothing lasts forever, and lifetime of what?
The same transmission was used in the Isuzi Trooper, some US Hondas and some BMWs and has a drain plug on some of these.
I'd change every couple of years for what it costs compared to a new autobox.
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