What are the manufacturers who make their own engines?
For example,
Ford engines are fitted to Jaguar & Land Rover
All Suzuki diesels are actually Fiat engines
Bit curious to know who actually make entire car by themselves and who just buy parts from others and then simply assemble them.
Thanx
|
Small GM petrol engines tend to be made by Suzuki.
Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and Daewoo all build their own engines, although the bigger Daewoo engines are built for them in Australia by Holden (part of GM).
It's my understanding that the small Nissan petrol engines (the ones that have been so troublesome) were farmed out to a subcontractor in Japan. Don't recall the name.
Many Chrysler diesels are made by VW, and the mid-size petrols (2l, 2.4l) are made by Hyundai (designed by Mitsubishi). I would extrapolate from that that at least some of Mitsubishi's engines are also built by Hyundai under licence.
PSA have a huge diesel factory and the 1.6s are shared with Ford and Mazda (or at least they used to be).
I believe that Hyundai/Kia's diesels are made in-house in Korea to a VM design.
What exactly is the situation with Nissan btw? Are these completely shared with Renault now (larger Renault diesels are chain-cam which suggests Nissan engineering input).
Edited by jase1 on 13/10/2008 at 16:04
|
|
Ford also build engines for PSA in their huge diesel factory.Ford also build Aston-Martin engines.
|
|
In that case what's so special in an Aston? :o)
|
|
|
|
I'd say these manufacturers only fit their own engines in cars carrying their badge:
- BMW
- Mercedes
- Honda
- Toyota
I'm ready to be corrected on this :) but I believe that most of the other car brands have engine-sharing agreements in at least some of their mass-market cars, e.g. Renault & Nissan, Ford and Peugeot, Jaguar etc, Mazda & Ford (on the smaller hatches), Citroen & Peugeot
|
I'd say these manufacturers only fit their own engines in cars carrying their badge: - Mercedes
>>I'm ready to be corrected on this :)
Ssangyong use Mercedes diesel engines :)
|
>> I'd say these manufacturers only fit their own engines in cars carrying their badge: >> - Mercedes >> >> I'm ready to be corrected on this :) Ssangyong use Mercedes diesel engines :)
True, and I'm sure BMW also allow some of their engines to be used in others makes. I'm sure the Mini engine is used somewhere else non-BMW.
|
|
Rover also used to use Honda engines of course.
|
|
|
|
Mini engine technology now sharted with Peugeot, formerly the diesel engines were made by Toyota.
|
|
|
|
I think the guy meant that Merc/BMW etc make their own engines, not that they don't make engines for others.
Incidentally, I think Vauxhall used to use Isuzu-derived diesel engines(the eco4 Astra Irecall had a 1.7 tdi from Isuzu)
|
I think the guy meant that Merc/BMW etc make their own engines not that they don't make engines for others.
Yes I think you're right; the wording was slightly cryptic and I mistook it for the reverse being the case.
But as has been said the BMW Mini's engine has been the result of a few collaborative efforts -- not sure if it counts though as technically the Mini isn't a BMW.....
|
|
|
|
|
I'd say these manufacturers only fit their own engines in cars carrying their badge: - BMW, Mercedes, Honda, Toyota
Not sure about Toyota. They use some Daihatsu engines, but I dunno if Daihatsu uses bany Toyota engines.
Same with Mercedes. Chrylser used some Merc engines, but did Merc use any from Chrsyler?
|
|
|
Although the first BMW MINI used a Chrysler engine IIRC, and I think the current MINI has an engine resulting from a BMW/Citroen/Peugot Joint Venture...
Do VAG Group cars only use VAG group engines? I can't think of one that doesn't, but I expect I've missed something!
Peter
|
|
|
I'd say these manufacturers only fit their own engines in cars carrying their badge: - BMW - Mercedes - Honda - Toyota I'm ready to be corrected on this :) >>
Corrections are a speciality of mine ;)
Toyota - Aygo diesels have PSA diesel engines.
BMW - well MINIs used to have Chrysler petrol engines and Toyota diesel engines, now they have PSA/Ford 1.6 diesels
Honda used to use PSA diesels, but a long time ago now.
I think Mercedes are the only one to use their own engines 100% of the time, unless of course any of you know better :)
|
I think Mercedes are the only one to use their own engines 100% of the time unless of course any of you know better :)
The original MB V-Class was available as a V280 which had a VW 2.8 VR6 engine. The V-Class was the first front wheel drive Mercedes (1 year before the A-Class) and MB did not have a suitable V6 petrol engine in their range.
|
|
|
|
|
Honda has used Isuzu diesels, e.g. in the 2001-2006 Civic.
|
|
|
BMW fit their engines rovers, vauxhall omega & rangerover
Merc also in the sang......
Honda into rover
toyota into citreon & peugeot
No doubt there's more!
|
|
|
|
Bit curious to know who actually make entire car by themselves and who just buy parts from others ....
I think it would be safe to say that no car manufacturer makes, or has ever made, all the parts themselves.
|
I think it would be safe to say that no car manufacturer makes or has ever made all the parts themselves.
True, but pedantic IMO ;)
Actually, didn't Lada used to make 100% of their cars' components in-house at one point?
|
To clarify, what I meant was that BMW, Mercedes, Toyota & Honda don't fit engines from OTHER manufacturers under their OWN bonnets ... I know they sell 'em to other car manufacturers :)
|
Yeah thanks for the clarification.
There's the aforementioned Mini, and also the Aygo diesel which has a PSA lump chattering away under its bonnet.
|
Is it always possible for an average motorist to spot who actually made the engine in his car?
Eg. my petrol Suzuki engine's rocker cover simply says "DOHC" [even though it is actually made by Suzuki].
Is it not a legal requirement to put something like "made by xyz" over the engine?
|
|
No;VM Motori-manufacturer of diesel engines(mainly)supplied them to many manufacturers badged as "VM";only Ford required the ones they bought to be badged as "Ford".
|
"Is it not a legal requirement to put something like "made by xyz" over the engine?"
Why should it be a requirement? You can be fairly certain that very little of any modern car is made by them - even the body/pressings might come from an outside supplier. Remember Pressed Steel Fisher, anyone....
|
|
|
|
Am i right in thinking yamaha designed and built the zetec engine fitted in my 04 focus
and the mk1 and mk2 mondeo.And the duratec engine ford now fit is a mazda design
|
Isn't the point here that there are few truly independent car manufacturers around the world now? i.e. Ford owns Aston Martin, Jaguar (and Volvo?), VW describes the VAG group comprising Seat, Audi, Skoda, Lamborghini (Oh yes) - the point being that most manufacturers build what they call 'platform' products, and develop engines for a range of cars. Shan't go into more detail, the results are obvious. Slightly amused that you end up with the same engines (in varying power outputs) under a range of cars. Hence being able to find the VW group 1.8 petrol in various states under the Ibiza FR, Golf, A4, TT and so on...
|
|
|
|
No;the engines were built by Ford and there was some Yamaha input(nowhere near 100%) in the design.
Edited by jc2 on 13/10/2008 at 18:20
|
|
|
Am i right in thinking yamaha designed and built the zetec engine fitted in my 04 focus>>
If it is a 1.4 then it is Yamaha designed (as with the 1.25 used in the Fiesta) though the 1.8 and 2.0 are Ford designed and hark back to the first Zetec engine fitted to Escorts and Orions in around 1991.
|
|
|
|
I lost track of these associations, collaborations and joint projects donkey's years ago, and I am surprised others don't think they have too. The main centres of automobile design, development and manufacturing power are still in the US, Japan and Europe but Korea has been in the loop for a while and India and China are coming up very fast. But the chart of associations, who makes what to whose design and for whom, is incredibly complex these days and becoming more so by the day.
Actually a schematic, perhaps simplified chart would make a good post or feature here if anyone had the information more or less to hand (I would have thought Aprilia could make a convincing stab at it, but he has abandoned us unfortunately).
In a way the industry looks vigorous and classical, with old musclebound outfits going down and new-money, new-market firms coming up. From another angle though it looks like a poorly disguised worldwide cartel able to twist the arms of the most powerful governments, and strategically central to the world economy. It isn't our friend.
|
It seems we are talking mass market manufacturers, but I bet the low volume manufacturers do more in-house, Ferrari, Porsche etc.?
Ferrari cast their own engine blocks, assemble the cars, even hand stitch the leather, all in the massive Maranello factory complex. The 'Megafactories: Ferrari' documentary that sometimes shows on Sky is interesting; shows them assembling cars with trees growing next to the production line, for ambience and air quality.
|
|
|
Actually a schematic perhaps simplified chart would make a good post or feature here if anyone had the information more or less to hand
I have a copy of such a chart, but probably already a little out of date. Its a bit complicated, it looks like the London tube map! I could try and transcribe it, but will take me a while...
Edited by Rich 9-3 on 13/10/2008 at 17:39
|
|
Porsche used a Finnish co called Valmet to assemble the Cayman and some Boxsters.
|
|
|
|
>>Actually a schematic, perhaps simplified chart would make a good post or feature here
This might help you.
tinyurl.com/2hrvd5
|
>>Actually a schematic perhaps simplified chart would make a good post This might help you. >> tinyurl.com/2hrvd5
I'm glad you posted that ML. Not as easy to follow as the one I've got but more up to date.
|
|
|
Thanks movilogo, just the sort of thing I had in mind.
Probably still changing as we speak though...
|
|
The previous BMW Mini used Chrysler (South American built) petrols and Toyota diesels...
|
|
BMW famously supplied engines to Rover didn't they ? VM supplied diesels to Land Rover in the original (and most proper) Rangie. Rover V8s were supplied to all and sundry, that engine originally being and Oldsmobile unit.
|
Oldsmobile and Pontiac also used the all-aluminum 215 on its mid-sized cars, the Oldsmobile F-85, Cutlass
As was I !
|
|
All Subarus including their new dsl except the latest Justy which essentially a re-badged Daihatsu Sirion with a Toyota engine. Don't think anyone else using their engines except a possible forthcoming RWD Toyota/Subaru Coupe and some old VW Campervans etc where apparenty a market for fitting ex-Legacy units.
|
The M47 diesel was used in the 75 and freelander.
Rover farmed out their KV6 engine to Kia as a bit of a development mule which I dont think went too well (for Kia at least!)
They also supplied Honda with the L series diesel for the Accord and another Honda that I cant remember.
|
|
|
|
|
|
>> >>Bit curious to know who actually make entire car by themselves and who just buy >> >>parts from others ....
>> I think it would be safe to say that no car manufacturer makes or has >> ever made all the parts themselves. True but pedantic IMO ;)
The question was .......... "who actually make entire car by themselves." It's not being pedantic to say that no car manufacturer makes the entire car, it's merely the truth. Any other answer would simply not be the truth, or would not be answering the question properly. I always try to answer the question as stated, and not base my answer on how I think the question should have been worded.
|
|
|
|
|
GM make engines in Hungary / Poland as GM powertrain, these are for the current astra, as well as other cars. Also into the Astra are diesel engines from Isuzu in Poland.
GM also used to make the V6 engine at Ellesmere Port, but that went some years ago.
Edited by jaffa on 13/10/2008 at 21:40
|
TVR introduced their own engine designs only in the last few years, having previously relied on bought-in engines - particularly Rover V8.
|
On the Rover (ex Buick) V8 - the Rover version was aluminium whereas the Buick one was cast Iron, I think.
This was a repeat of what Rolls-Royce did in the 1950's with a larger aluminium V8 based on a GM cast iron design.
|
On the Rover (ex Buick) V8 - the Rover version was aluminium whereas the Buick one was cast Iron I think.
Rubbish, the Buick was ali, that was why the Yanks didn't take to it! The concept of anti freeze as an anti corrosion additive didn't compute. Also Buick had issues making it with problems of liner shift in the casting process. The advent of thin wall cast iron processes made it obsolete. So Rover bought it.
According to the engine designer the RR was not based on an existing engine but did share some design features.
Edited by tr7v8 on 13/10/2008 at 22:31
|
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8_engine
Very good write up here:- confirms it was an aluminium block all along.
|
Judging by the appaling failure rate of the later blocks; maybe they should have left it as steel.
Going back to the OP; I have a feeling that Suzuki diesels are Pug HDi units.
|
|
My Suzuki SX4 is the petrol version with a Suzuki own brand engine but I believe you can get a FIAT 1.9 diesel version as well as the 1.6 diesel from Ford/PSA.
|
|
|
|
|
The Buick was ali and had various sorts of casting and machining problems.When Ford produced a cast-iron engine of equivalent capacity that weighed only nine pounds more,Buick gave up and were only too happy for someone to buy the plans and patterns off them.
|
|
|
|
|
>but I bet the low volume manufacturers do more in-house, Ferrari, Porsche etc.?
It was a long time ago but the engine in the 924 was derived from a VW van.
Trivia alert:
The 200bhp version of the Buick engine mentioned in the wikipedia entry was fitted to the '63 Skylark. It had an 11:1 compression ratio and a four-barrel carb. The factory price was $2757 for the hardtop (32,109 made) and $3011 for the convertible (10,212 made).
The 215 was replaced by a 300cid iron block unit in 1964. The '64 Skylark was often confused with the '63 Pontiac Tempest but lacked posi-trak and IRS as Marisa Tomei eloquently explained in one of my favourite kick-back and relax movies.
Kevin...
|
|
Heh heh. I know that movie Kevin, seen it twice. Can't remember what it's called though.
|
My Cousin Vinny.
Kevin...
|
|
That's the one, thanks... Good girl that Marisa Tomei too, interpreting the black getaway lines over the kerb so cleverly, and so cute with it...
|
Over the years Volvo have used the following engines:
Old Engines:
D6 fitted in the 200's and 7/900 was from the VW LT35 van
1.4 and 1.7 petrols in 300's and 400's were from Renault (and the diesel fitted to them)
1.9 Diesels in the 400's and early S/V40's were also from Renault
2.7-2.9 V6 was the Douvrin V6 that was made with Peugeot, Renault and Volvo and also used in the Deleoren
2.4 Diesel 5 Cylinder was a VAG engine
1.8i (GDI) in the S/V40 was from Mitsubishi
Current engines
2.0D- Ford/PSA
1.6D- Ford/PSA
1.6, 1.8, 2.0 petrols: Ford/PSA
T5 (C30/S40/V50/C70): Ford Focus
3.2 I6: Ford
V8 petrol: Yamaha
I think that's the lot on those, although I'm sure that some of the guys on Turbobricks or VOC forum would add to the list!
Many of the redblock and whiteblock engines were developed with Penta as well, so may not have appeared in a car, but almost definitely appeared in a boat!
|
Over the years Volvo have used the following engines:
Designed and built can be seperate things.
Old:
The 1.8 and 2.0 4cyls in the S40 and V40 were also Renault, the Mitsubishi GDi unit was introduced later.
The early 2.4 diesel 5 Cylinder was a VAG engine, later ones are based on the Volvo designed petrol 5 cyl engine.
Current:
The 1.6 1.8 2.0 petrols are Ford only AFAIAA not PSA.
The T5 is Volvo though is also used in the Focus, Mondeo and S-Max.
I think the 3.2 I6 is a Volvo design though perhaps Ford build it, not totally sure.
The V8 petrol is Yamaha designed though IIRC built by Ford.
|
|
In the P2 S/V40 they fitted the N series engines, 4 cylinder version of the whiteblocks found in the 850 and 960, S/C/V70 and S/V90 and S60/80
|
|
|
|
