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Disagree with the horsepower limitation. I was driving a 130 bhp rear wheel drive car at that age and I'm still here - exactly the same nonsense nearly drove motorcycling to an early grave.
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It's down to paternal discipline.
I can't imagine anything worse on this earth then to have had to return a car to my dad in a different shape from when I had set out. So I made damned well sure that I didn't.
Discipline discipline discipline.
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I hit a metal lamp post with my dad's Volvo 244 when I was 17. The Volvo was fine but the lamp post........
:-(
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Aged 19 I had a near miss in a Morris Marina 1.8TC (which was a beast when it was damp) which taught me everything in a nano second that I would ever need to know about the combination of rwd and powerful engines and damp roads.
Edited by Pugugly on 12/10/2008 at 14:37
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I had a young 'man' sitting on my bumper through a tight and twisty village today, complete with his bleach blond bint grinning away next to him. My first instinct was that they be struck by a blunt object, but in reality, the easiest way to get rid of them is give them very powerful cars and hope they meet their maker before they assist someone else in doing so.
Teenagers especially are exceptionally irritating at the best of times and few seem to be responsible enough to hold a license. Id like to see the minimum age raised to 21 personally with subsidised public transport introduced until they are 21.
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deleted
Edited by jase1 on 12/10/2008 at 14:50
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Nothing, short of stopping them holding licenses (which I do not advocate, by the way)
Who can honestly say they drove sensibly, considerately and safely when they were <21, and would want to deny that fantastic sense of freedom and excitement to others?
I cannot remember the last time I was hassled by a young driver on the road. Most of the truly dangerous or cringeworthy driving I see is by middle aged males in executive saloons and off roaders. Clearly not borne by the statistics, but I can only report what I see.
Cheers
DP
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Who can honestly say they drove sensibly considerately and safely when they were >
Me, and many others I'm sure!
The best solution is probably advanced driving. The only problem is that the advanced driving groups wouldn't cope if they were suddenly flooded with every new driver. However if you want to improve your driving, or get a child to improve their driving you can join a group with tutoring for less than £100.
It seems to me that a lot of drivers drive very badly, but the younger ones don't have as much experience to cope with the unexpected. I think younger drivers need better role models.
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That lamp post, which is in Edinburgh, I won't say where...... still has a large dent in it to this day. Or it had last time I looked.....
The Volvo BTW still comes up as in use when you check the reg. Three decades + later.
They don't make bumpers like that any more.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 12/10/2008 at 14:47
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There's a fence with my name on it "somewhere in England" marks are still there circa 1977 by Morris 1000 !
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I still have the same views as prior similar discussions.
Things have changed so dramatically since the vast majority of us were in that age group.
Apart from traffic levels obviously, i mean the handling and performance of modern vehicles.
Even 25 years ago but certainly before, many cars were quite fast, but the roadholding and sheer grip of most cars likely to be driven by that age were pretty dismal, and you very soon found the limitations of grip, had some scary moments and learned from them.
Come to the present day, and a medium car such as a Focus/Astra can charge around at tremendous speeds with almost no 'feel' or skill required from the driver.
Thinking here of my son, who's 29 now and until probably 23/25 relied very much on ABS saving the day if he misjudged it.
He's that bit older now and done a few years HGVing so he's learned a lot different, and i believe he has developed that feel, it only comes with experience, you can teach it up to a point but youngsters always know better, i did..;)
His current Impreza could qualify as the worst car ever for a unskilled youngster, grip and performance of breathtaking proportions and if you should ever lose it regardless of road conditions there would be very little chance of recovery, amazingly it doesn't have ABS, or any other driving aid.
I don't think many youngsters learn the limits of their cars simply because their cars are so capable, unfortunately when they do find the breakaway and lose it point its often at very high speed and will have tragic results, quite how you try to prevent it happening i don't know.
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I don't think many youngsters learn the limits of their cars simply because their cars are so capable unfortunately when they do find the breakaway and lose it point its often at very high speed and will have tragic results
Maybe all male drivers under 25 should be required to drive an old Morris Marina? ;)
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Maybe all male drivers under 25 should be required to drive an old Morris Marina? ;)
You may be onto something there, and not just the male ones either, i see plenty of too fast for the surface/conditions with young females too..;)
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I too, disagree with horsepower limitation. Even the most basic of cars will accelerate quickly enough in the lower speed range and I imagine a vast majority of accidents happen at speeds below the NSL.
The biggest cause of accidents in this age group (I believe) is losing control on a corner, which you can do in any road car today. A lack of awareness and car control as well as speed which contributes to this.
Unfortunately some younger drivers (I say some because I know they are just as many sensible ones out there!) feel that going faster is the only way to demonstrate being a skillful driver. Hence more people in this age bracket are constantly exceeding the 30mph limit, especially in their local area where they know they probably won't get caught because they rely only on their "youthful" reaction times and not the limits of the road, car or conditions.
Better education, maybe. I would like to see the Pass Plus elements being brought into the main part of driving test/lessons (exception still for Motorways) and more advanced driving tips such as using limit points and commentary driving. But those who will ignore, will always ignore until its too late.
Stiffer penalties perhaps, yes. But then those repeat offenders will always reoffend. Despite the good work of police, it's frustrating to see people who are already banned to get "a further ban for 3 months" or a small fine, or community service and so on.
On the other hand you could go the other way and *reward* good, young drivers. Maybe by lowering premiums if they demonstrate a good driving record free of incidents and speeding offences, by better advertising of pass plus and advanced driving courses etc. ( I know some councils were discounting pass plus - this should be nationwide...)
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Pugugly it may be true that you had a 130bhp rear wheel drive car, and at that age I do not doubt that you were responsible enough to to control it but it would still have been a dangerous weapon in the wrong hands. That was when roads were quieter, not every young man(and it will be in the main young men as they are slaves to their testosterone) is irresponsible. Unfortunately the only way to control the irresponsible ones is to repress the responsible ones.
In addition:
Driving without a valid licence- Jail time
Compulsory tuition for motorway driving- possibly with an additional written test.
Edited by freakybacon on 12/10/2008 at 15:33
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Compulsory tuition for motorway driving- possibly with an additional written test.
Dont agree with this. I live 65 miles from the nearest motorway, for compulsory motorway tuition I would have to have a four hour lesson just to be on a motorway for one hour.
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