Thanks for bringing some decorum back to this place. In fact:- DULCE ET DECORUM EST
Pro patria mori.
The old lie, I believe.
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That second bit was. I have been tempted back out to Flanders in a friend's Jaguar Estate this autumn. Will have to fake a 5 day trial somewhere to go either that or make an imitation me to stick behind my desk.
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Maybe you should check out the blow up doll thread.
I've done some cycling in that region and it's the calm normality of it that gets to me. Remembering that war is becoming an effort now and it will say a lot about us if we let it slide. I have a vague memory of my great grandfather, who lost a leg on the Somme, but I'm 40 and was born closer in time to that war than my daughter was to the second.
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DULCE ET DECORUM EST
As per Horace or Wilfred Owen?
Many thanks Oilrag - incredibly vivid impressions.
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Vivid?
This thread's mixture of Latin and the oily one's, er, unusual prose has got me beat.
Edited by ifithelps on 28/09/2008 at 10:05
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Well I meant it with Horace's sentiment in mind, but with WOs connection to the locality and the use of the phrase in his work - Anyway back on track - Oily, tell us more about the trip and your suggestion of getting a bike.
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Ooops..sorry, corrections.
1) Hill 62 (not 60)
tinyurl.com/4v6dul
2) Nausicaa (not Nautica) .. Sea life centre Boulogne
tinyurl.com/4s7hxh
Sorry about that PU.
Will write about the bike and more about the trip later today..
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"corrections"
Ypres (Ieper) rather than Leper?
Looking forward to "more about the trip later today.."
Regards,
Phil
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That`s correct Phil..
More,
These trips started a couple of years ago, Second World War, Atlantic wall and V1 &2 blockhouses.
This time following my earlier thread on the topic, First World War sites.
About Navigation.
Thought I would try abandoning `map and memory` navigation altogether, so a few weeks ago, found the sites around Ypres and Albert and entered them into the Sat-nav. That`s a Garmin Nuvi 200 and it led to some surprise routes and discovering remote Military Cemeteries on very minor roads and tracks .
A success? I think so, allowing much greater concentration on the surrounding terrain and environment, rather than `route navigation`. However, there was the `flint track incident`;)
Hill 62 Museum and trenches,
Erosion seems to be the real enemy here and it seems very evident from earlier photo`s on the web, contrasted with what we saw.
I found a comment on the web to the effect that soldiers from a contemporary regiment were unhappy with being charged for admission when "we have dug them".
I found myself quite uneasy about this. However without finance presumably there would be no trenches to see. But should there be? Isn`t it a charge, to see what is actually a mass grave - still just within living memory?
Around the area (and in France) maize grew thickly and was being harvested. I`m very uncomfortable with what seems like death and misery 90 years ago forming an alternative `crop` or revenue stream.
But where do you draw the limits? We pay to visit the Victory in Portsmouth.. perhaps it`s different as there are no unburied sailors still on board..
Albert - Trench museum.
Tunnel full of war scenario`s and relics - on sale - Bayonet, 100 Euro`s anyone? How about a shell case or brass fuse? What`s the next step? when will selling skulls be socially acceptable?
The area around High Wood.
So peaceful, a light September rain causing the soil to melt back from its - from the plough - sharp definition. Ideal for spotting a `relic` (as they call them) a shiver runs down the spine at the perceived sacrilege of `treasure hunting`. Eyes in front, covering only foot contact areas as High Wood is approached where once heavy machine guns piled bodies deep.....
oilrag
More tomorrow, on bikes
Edited by oilrag on 28/09/2008 at 20:41
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Oily,
Lovely post.
You raise some very interesting points - soon these battlefields will be remembered at first hand by no-one - am I correct in saying that Harry Patch is the soul surviving British vet who fought in the trenches in WW1?
The landscape is also so changed from 1918. I returned a few years ago for the second or third time to a site near Villers-Bretonneux where my grandad had "lost" his guns - 6in howitzers - in the face of the last German advance in their spring offensive of 1918 to find it obliterated by a motorway junction on the A29. Quite sad, but inevitable unless much of Northern France were to remain a wilderness. I was comforted by the fact that where his guns were lost overnight before the Aussies recovered them in one of their many glorious moments in WW1 was, either side of the junction a beautiful field of wheat with a sprinkling of poppies - perhaps commemorating the death of one of his mates at the site?
There are of course some areas which have not been resettled or cultivated since 1918 - large areas around Verdun are so thick with remains that they remain untouched, in memory of those who died. And, of course, there is the village of Oradour sur Glene near Limoges which remains as it was in 1944(?) when virtually all inhabitants were murdered by the SS in WW2
As for the selling of relics? It always seems to be somehow morally wrong to me and there are endless discussions of the rights and wrongs on WW1 forum (a site which might interest you) - see
1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/
You might also enjoy books published by Pen and Sword, several of which are not only about the actual battles of WW1 but also about touring the area. See
www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/?category_id=23
Finally, you mention Albert and its "Golden Spire"
Not in 1918!!
Here are some photos of my Grandad (JAW) and a couple of pals in the ruins of Albert Cathedral in November 1918.
s33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/PhilRW/Albert/
For those motorcycle buffs on Honestjohn have a close look at "image 4" - can you identify the motorbikes? Higher def photo available if you require!
Again looking forward to your next post oily
Regards
Phil
Edited by Pugugly on 28/09/2008 at 21:31
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Thanks for your detailed reply and the photo`s Phil. I enjoyed looking through them and the war forum.
No chance of me recognising the bikes though!
Regarding bikes,
Saddest sight was an abandoned V twin, right outside the Port of Dover ferry booking terminal. Back tyre as flat as a pancake.
It reminded me of carrying a couple of spare tubes in 1980 on my last continental trip on a Yamaha SR500.
A good all purpose bike that. You could pick it up unaided and take either wheel out at the roadside, for puncture repair, with it on the centre stand. Also service it yourself with no dismantling to get at the engine.
I went to look at bikes about three years ago. In particular I liked the Kawasaki (?) replica of a Triumph twin. Unfortunately the frame size felt really small as though my knees were almost up with the front of the fuel tank, rather than at the rear.
Looking back, I always sat well back on bike seats and modern contoured seats don`t allow that.
It`s all `academic` really though, as at UK temperatures, other than in a heat wave, I would soon be in trouble these days.
Put it this way. A ten minute walk to the paper shop, wearing thick gloves and I`m loosing feeling in my fingers on the way back.
Not heated gloves - more like a heated space suit I think ;)
Having said that, borrowed a big bike out in the Far East recently and the feeling of control and `one-ness` with the bike, was there instantly..(28 years on!!!) Tore off up the road with a howl of modified pipes..
Maybe the answer is to move abroad ;) Failing that though, I`m just fine in the van, with the heater full on through the centre vents - directed onto the wheel and hands ;)
Regards
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Regarding the motoring element of the trip,
Set off Sunday AM and cleared the Dartford crossing at lunchtime. Stuck gaffer tape on the lights and noticed large signs in the Dover ferry terminal that correction was a legal requirement - or words to that effect.
There were some shocking main roads in Belgium. One, heading East towards leper was concrete slabs, with gaps at the end of each slab. Looked like it dated back 60 years or so and felt like you imagine a test track would be for suspension development/destruction.
Great motoring really though, in France. Typical empty motorway in front and doing a steady 130kph without needing to keep switching lanes. Pity about the M25 the following Saturday lunchtime on the return..
The aquarium, in Boulogne.
All the usual suspects in there, sharks and so on.. Most outstanding to me was a sort of inverted pyramid. Imagine a giant claret glass, 18 feet or so across the top and 25 feet deep.
Artificial sunlight shines on the surface and as you stand in darkness at its base, large ocean going fish plunge steadily against the swirling current.
You look up at them viewing from below, as perhaps a shark would see them as a surface silhouette. Perhaps they think the camera flashes going off at the base of the `wine glass` 20 teet or so below them, are the scales of deeper fish flashing with sunlight.
One had a different shape tag on its dorsal fin to the others.. I`m sure it seemed to be snorting a bit and gloating over the others..
Maybe the tag was just last nights dream though. Or even an attempt to summon popular interest (allegedly;) to my thread.
;)
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See this fin tag? I'm top of the range, boy, and don't you forget it (snort, gloat).
Fish do have a lot to teach us about fluid dynamics. There weren't any F1 aerodynamicists in false beards and dark glasses taking notes under this thirties cocktail glass of yours were there, oilrag?
There used to be a bit of that concrete-slab-with-bitumen-joints road on the A11. In a new Audi with big fat tyres I took down it, the tyres made an extraordinarily loud clopping sound over the joints if you went fast enough with the window open a certain distance. Never heard anything like it. Should've recorded it.
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That's why Sat Nav equipped BMWs of a certain age had a "sharkfin" aerial on the back...
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It`s the one with its mouth open. It keeps shouting "shimmed tappets" and "am I galvanised?"
tinyurl.com/3theqg
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Definitely got that alpha-fish look.
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Maybe it had a chip on its shoulder........
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