Here's the links page for anyone who needs to report anything to government, national or local:
www.tagish.co.uk/links/
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Generally the first set of speed limit signs at a change of speed should be of a particular size or actively lit by lamps, the repeaters afterwards need not be and are normally the smaller disc size. If the entry speed sign is not visible, wrong, or missing then it does contravene the guidelines as stated.
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OK, I have reported this to my local council, I'll see how long it takes for anything to happen (if at all!).
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tell the appropriate manager* at the council you've been given legal advice that you may ignore the speed limit, because it's not been properly signed...and that coincidentally your wife/cousin/son/etc works for the local paper and they're doing a 'piece' on it.
Will be sorted within the week.
* you've got to make sure you speak with the manager in the dept that deals and that you ask for their name
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Yet another easily diagnosable case of Meldrewism!
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I in 50 road signs is counterfeit. The way to spot a fake is to rotate it on its pole, and see whether the two sides are aligned correctly. If in doubt, remove it and take it to your local council transport department.
It is an offence to pass a counterfeit road sign.
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There must be more to it than just the first sign in a zone being missing or whatever, otherwise what's to stop me pulling up in front of the first sign, hauling it off the post and then driving at 60 with no fear of prosecution?
I appreciate that's not exactly practical, but you could nip out at midnight and wreck a sign, then speed down the road the next day, apparently. Surely that can't be right?
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On a similar theme I notice a local stretch of road has had the limit reduced from 40 to 30; yet there is still a nice big '40' in a circle painted on the road as you enter the section. Would that also make a useful 'get out of jail free' card if I was up before the beak for doing 38 in said section?
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On a similar theme I notice a local stretch of road has had the limit reduced from 40 to 30; yet there is still a nice big '40' in a circle painted on the road as you enter the section. Would that also make a useful 'get out of jail free' card if I was up before the beak for doing 38 in said section?
Yes. I imagine you would definitely have a case. It is a massive oversight by the council and the 40 should have been burned off the road and/or replaced. It is still your duty to read and obsevere all signs however, and adhere to the conditions.
I can't remember the legality of painted speeds on roads but I believe they are part of the enforcement as opposed to "advisory."
At the point of the 40 on the road, are there post signs displaying 30 on either side of the road? That is, does the new 30 definitely start before or at the painted 40?
Entry signs are doubled up normally lit actively by lamps and often on a yellow square background.
Edited by Devolution on 29/09/2008 at 13:48
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At the point of the 40 on the road are there post signs displaying 30 on either side of the road? That is does the new 30 definitely start before or at the painted 40?
The painted 40 is about 10 yards beyond the nearside '30' sign. The offside '30' sign has been turned round by some 'erbert and actually shows NSL to oncoming taffic now!
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The painted 40 is about 10 yards beyond the nearside '30' sign. The offside '30' sign has been turned round by some 'erbert and actually shows NSL to oncoming taffic now!
Sounds like a right mess. And not really enforceable. It needs to be put right.
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Essentially yes, but this would mean appealing against any NIP or fine from the police and going to court and how many people actually stand up to the system? Not many. Obviously other factors may come in to play such as whether you had reasonable doubt not to know the speed - so if it's on the road that you've lived on, you'd be hard pushed not to know.
But if you came out of a NSL on a road you don't know at night and in the darkened countryside into a 50 and missed the entry speed limit signs because they were missing, obscured or damaged and flashed immediately by a camera you could have a case. Travelling for the next 2 miles past repeater signs may then question your eyesight; and these days entry signs are doubled up for this purpose on both sides of the road; often with road markings, strips, coloured surface/antiskid surface etc.
To purposely flout a loophole then one would probably deserve the punishment they receive, but the Traffic Signs and Regulations are there and must be maintained to the required standard - they are occasionally reviewed to see if they provide the correct notice and warning - and if the failure to maintain allows a genuine mistake on the drivers part or misleads the driver in anyway then dispensation should be granted in the favour of the driver.
No situation is the same, however, hence the minefield in this line of legality.
Edited by Devolution on 29/09/2008 at 13:40
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Interestingly, we have a new section of road near us that has open fields either side. You reach a roundabout at the end of the village, and then this section commences. It's about half a mile long.
The only thing to indicate that it's a 30 is the presence of a street lights and no sign telling you it isn't.
Inevitably, every time I drive along it at 30 (ie every time I drive along it) there is a huge queue behind me, and on many occasions people roar past me in an aggressive manner. I don't think it's because people want necessarily to do 60 in a 30, I think it's because the nature of the road just doesn't make it clear somehow. I have no idea why they made it a 30.
I've driven it with other drivers who don't know the area and asked them what they think the limit is, and nobody has yet decided it's 30.
I'm told that it's "illegal" to place a 30 reminder or repeater, as it just is carrying on from the 30 before the roundabout.
I find this a tad stressful, although to a certain extent I can mentally shrug and say "it's your licence chum" as another zooms past, but it's still difficult to look in your mirror and see a million impatient drivers.
Yes, I am sure it's a 30 - at the end there are two nsl signs, and com ing the other way the reverse of those signs have 30 signs. They are however RIGHT on a difficult bend and nobody seems to see them that way either, so the same thing happens coming back again.
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You are correct in that you don't need 30mph repeater signs.
Speeds often change on approach to roundabouts, but half a mile after seems overly excessive. However not knowing the location it is hard to say. If it's considered there are hidden exits or side roads then this in itself could be enough to increase sighting time by enforcing the 30 for longer.
Many roads that are 30 are often wide and give no recognisable reason for being 30 but there are a lot of factors that come in to play. You'd think it would be ok to increase it to 40 and so forth? But this then breeds the old argument that then people would think it ok to do "upto 50" because 10mph over isn't that bad is it? Like the motorway situation, with people saying they could raise the speed to 80mph... well yes but loads of people do 80-85mph now, even the police acknowledge that; but once you say the motorway speed is 80mph then people start to do 95mph and so on.
I know the feeling - it's horrible to feel like you're holding up everyone, but if it's 30 it's 30. The council will accept proposals for changes to road speeds. It may be there is no longer a need for 30 on this section but has just been left historically.
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"I have no idea why they made it a 30."
Perhaps, like Hertfordshire, at some point it was decided to impose 30 on anything deemed to be a village or within a village. Regardless of light traffic patterns, good road conditions, good visibility, absence of junctions, absence of housing and other development, it was applied as a blanket policy. Hence, there are many stretches of road where the unaware may make the wrong assumption and many drivers may think "Why on earth is this a 30 zone?" Hence, the general credibility of speed limits is eroded. Still, the likelihood of enforcement is slight, except where there are cameras (and now cameras watching cameras, as on the B653).
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It's actually a new bypass. When they built it, for some months it was marked in one direction as 40, with two signs, then repeaters which showed nsl. The other way it had one (only) nsl on entry and no repeaters at all. Basically it was a right old two and eight for ages, and the local counciller complained, after which it became the strange thing we have now. There are a couple of side roads, but they are not hidden in in any way.
I just wish I could have a sign in the back of the car saying "I know I'm holding you up, but it's 30 and I have four points already ta, ring the council mate."
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Tis indeedy 30 mph
RTRA 1984 S81
Speed limit on a 'restricted road' = 30 mph
Restricted road = a road with street lights not more than 200 yards apart - no specific speed limit Order is required.
If it was nsl then there would be NSL (or 40, 50 etc) roundels attached to lamps at intervals.
None of these and lamps always assume 30 mph unless signed otherwise.
dvd
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