Are you a member of the CTC? If you were, a job for their solicitor I think. Even so, pays to use one who is cycle accident experienced (sounds a horrible phrase but you know what I mean).
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As D Horn has mentioned, CTC employ solicitors. More importantly, they are experienced in cycling related incidents, which others may not be. Also look at www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/index.php for advice. Good luck.
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Second Nortones advice on Cyclechat (and the CTC)
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I'd get to the accident scene promptly and see if there is CCTV nearby - look in shops as well as street mounted.
There are a lot of them about.. but some of the recordings don't last long before being over-recorded.
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local councils only keep CCTV for a month, might be worth ringing the council where it happened......whether they will deal with you as an individual rather than an organisation I don't know i.e. they may well have a policy where they won't do it, unless requested by police etc, otherwise they'd be inundated
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They're obliged to by Data Protections Act under subject access requirements - you may have to pay a tenner. You'll need a solicitor as well. Check your household policy and/or breakdown insurance- you may well have legal cover there somewhere. Speak to your own insures before instructing blame/claim ones or you may compromise your own cover.
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All, thank you very much for all the advice and comments, lots of good points for me to now act on. On a few of the points:
No unfortunately not a member of CTC, but seem to have legal cover with my breakdown cover, car insurance and my bank account.
I certainly heard witnesses telling the driver that they had seen him hit me, but as I was lying on the road, shocked (numb arms and pins and needles certainly focuses the mind) , in rather a lot of pain elsewhere and (luckily) two of the good samaritans insisted I didn't move to move in case something serious was broken, I didn't see who they were and don't have their details, only hope that the Police took their details (2 PC's and 2 PCSO's were there).
Seems it will be up to me to find the evidence (like CCTV) to push the Police to prosecute him unless there was something immediately obvious to them like drink driving, or the Police did speak to all the witnesses. Do they check mobiles at scene of incidents routinely now? I drove to the Police station earlier to get my bike back, and got the PC who returned it to also make a note of the damage, but now keen that a traffic accident examiner also views it. Given I was moving at about 15mph the damage he has done to my back wheel makes me think his relative speed over mine must have been significant.
David H - sorry to hear about your incident, I think I was very lucky to come out relatively unscathed, hope you have healed up now.
Thanks again
Rob
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I'm genuinely surprised by the number of folks who don't realise that they often have legal cover included in their motoring or household/other insurance policies.
Maybe we should put together a "Points to Consider" sticky post for RTA incidents?
Anything that could help relegate ambulance chasers from TV to Yellow Pages.
Kevin...
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Mmmm good idea - now we need someone to write one of our resident Police Officers or DVD maybe--- ?
Edited by Pugugly on 22/09/2008 at 00:24
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Have an open thread for a couple of weeks to allow anyone to contribute, then bribe/browbeat someone into condensing it into a Read-Only sticky?
Anything pertinent that appears in later threads could be added by Mods.
Kevin...
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Alaskan Rob
The first thing you need to do is SLOW DOWN. Process will not happen overnight. This will be a very traumatic experience for you no doubt.
I am afraid in the greater scheme of things someone getting knocked off a push bike and sustaining minor injuries is not a major issue but should be dealt with appropriately.
You will not be able to push the Police for a prosecution that will be their decision based on the circumstances, evidence, local policies and then in consultation with the CPS.
The Officer dealing should be contacting you to check on welfare and providing you with details of the other party. Not a Data Protection issue as they are only facilitating what is required by law ie the exchange of names and addresses and insurance details.
As Westpig points out; as injury is involved then a collision report form should be completed. Now I don't know if the Met are different (they often are) but this is a national form - MG NCRF/A. This form requires extensive information from both parties including verbal accounts, witness details and accounts, document information, details of the collision.
The first thing you can do is attend you local Police station in person, explain what happened and try and get some information as to what the the incident reference number was and what their procedure is for dealing with collisions. They may be able to tell you who the Officer was who dealt and may even take a message for them to contact you or give you a contact number. Depending on shift patterns / rest days there may be some delay. You are far better speaking to the 'horse mouth'. It might be that the Met policy is for the Officer to submit whatever information they have to an Admin unit who complete the inquiries - I dont know. But again ask the question.
You should not have been left in limbo and it should have been explained what was or was not going to happen next. It could have been but because of the circumstance you could not take on board all the information.
It might be that you will need to write ( they often dont take phone calls) to some sort of Accident Records department ( again ask for the title and contact details when you go to the Police station) This unit processes all the reports and can provide information. You will have to explain where and when and all he information you are aware of and ask for the information you require.
In the first instance give it a few days to see if anything happens. You will not have to do the investigation but you may get some basic information by just paying a visit to the Police station.
You will have to ask the questions if you want some answers.
As for taking legal advice, again just hold on until you have some more information to take with you.
As for your bike I doubt anyone will be around to look at it as impact damage should have been noted at the scene. But take a few pictures of your own.
Edited by Fullchat on 22/09/2008 at 02:01
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You are far better speaking to the 'horse mouth'. It might be that the Met policy is for the Officer to submit whatever information they have to an Admin unit who complete the inquiries - I dont know. But again ask the question.
In the Metropolitan Police area the initial reporting officer, if Borough based i.e. local cop, fills in a CRB (Collision Report Book) and that's the last they'll see of it. Contacting that officer will be difficult due to the shifts etc..and.. they won't know anything extra, having had no further input into that accident, i.e. no follow ups, no extra statements, nothing. The admin side of things for traffic matters used to be dealt with in Borough admin units called CJUs (Criminal Justice Unit) where civilian staff did the follow ups. Nowadays that has gone as well, as they concentrate solely on crime. Traffic cases are dealt with in one place, in South london called the Traffic CJU. The correspondence from the Boroughs to the Traffic CJU is not necessarily all that quick.
The only difference would be if Traffic officers dealt with it in the first place as a more serious accident, as they will often keep hold of their own jobs. Although serious to the writer, in this case i'd doubt it was dealt with as a serious one and would guess the former advice to be relevant.
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Thanks for that WP. You are obviously more conversant with the workings of the Met than us 'Woodentops' north of the Watford Gap. :-)
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Re "Although serious to the writer, in this case i'd doubt it was dealt with as a serious one and would guess the former advice to be relevant." The problem is the police tend to look at the outcome, rather than the potential for harm. From the same circumstances, there could have been a fatality. As with a punch to the head: in a proportion of cases the victim is killed due to thin-skull, or hitting a kerb. For the police themselves, at least in some regions, they look at accident prevention. In theory, at least: www.dumfriesandgalloway.police.uk/foi/class_cat/po...f
Vulnerable road users should be accorded the same thoroughness when there is an incident, which might have become more serious. Otherwise little is learned about the potential for future harm.
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You'll find its more to do with CPS charging standards than a desire by the Police to do justice by any victim. We live with a target driven, performance measured Criminal Justice System.
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If you are suffering from insomnia this link to the CPS charging guidelines should sort you out!
www.cps.gov.uk/legal/section9/chapter_b.html#04
But here is an extract which relates to minor incidents.
'Conversely, the public interest does not call for a prosecution in every case where there is, evidentially, a realistic prospect of conviction for careless driving. A prosecution should not be commenced because of technical lapse from the statutory standard where a case is likely to attract only a nominal penalty and will have no deterrent effect on a defendant or other motorists.
It will not necessarily be appropriate to prosecute in every case where a minor collision occurs. What matters is the extent of the error, not the extent of any damage. It is not the function of the prosecution [or the criminal courts] to conduct proceedings in order to settle questions of liability for the benefit of individual motorists or insurance companies. Therefore the public interest will tend to be against a prosecution for careless driving where the incident is of a type such as frequently occurs at parking places or in traffic queues, involving minimal carelessness.'
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Agreed. But when subject to scrutiny, they know what's important to showcase... Problem is there is little effective external audit of RTA's. Until there is, the police, ACPO, and HO will continue their insular, poor performance.
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Fullchat. SFAIK, the CPS do not investigate, nor do they set out parameters for investigation of RTA's. If the police, the HO and ACPO are limp and feeble in pursuing "minor" RTA's, then the CPS will not intervene. Even though minor injuries are an indicator of hazard. If the police are limited by outlook, manpower, attitude etc, the underlying issues are veiled to the CPS. Nothing in the CPS Prosecutors Code seems to pick up on underlying issues of policy, and perhaps it should not. The lead must come from the HO, and ACPO. The late Gwyneth Dunwoody made valiant efforts to push the Government, but she probably underestimated the inertia of the HO......
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Correct, the CPS do not investigate. But their guidelines influence whether or not the Police do a full investigation and submit process up to prosecution standards. If every case of Careless Driving was prosecuted then there would need to be full written statements and interviews to prove the offence.
Now that in itself is not a problem other than the amount of hours spent dealing and with paperwork. So if the CPS dictate that they will only prosecute offences above a certain benchmark then who is going to waste time with those that fall below that mark.
We also have to remember that our road network, towns and cities are clogged up with vehicles and there are the inevitable minor shunts - minor errors of judgment, we all have them at some time. Broken glass, minor dents - you know the sort of thing. Would you say it is fair to prosecute each and every instance? Realistically could the Police deal with them all and still attempt to fulfill all other calls for service?
Only recently the Police stopped recording 'Damage Only' collisions for stats purposes but will still prosecute anything that comes out of the investigation. Having said that if you are involved in one at the low end of the scale the control response is to advise to exchange details and no Police attendance.
Now as to who influences the guidelines is another subject but I am sure availability of resources does have an impact. Not just Police but Court time. That's why Fixed Penalties were introduced and Shopliffters cannot elect Crown Court. Some influence by bigger issues such as rising population and crime, drugs, and the general slide of law and order, social issues etc. We all know we need and bigger and better Criminal Justice network but that aint going to happen so the next best thing is to focus on particular areas and cut out a lot of the 'lesser' tasks.
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Fullchat (in a moment of madness) said:
>Some influence by bigger issues such as rising population and crime, drugs, and the general slide of
>law and order, social issues etc.
But all of those things have improved dramatically haven't they?
Jacqui Smith said so.
Surely she knows more than Joe Public and you guys at the sharp end?
Kevin...
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Fullchat. Just want to make the point that a minor shunt between two cars at lower speeds isn't very important, and there isn't much risk. But the OP was on a bike, apparently hit from the rear. It shouldn't be looked at from a car-centric viewpoint, as that underplays the potential for harm.
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nt2,
there are many areas of traditional policing that any sensible person, inc those employed in that profession, would think ought to have some form of priority or a higher priority than at present..but unfortunatley they do not
because
the govt introduced targets. Those targets are measurable and ultimately the most senior police managers receive performance related pay, measured by achieving those targets, so all or most of the resources are aimed at those specific target areas e.g. residential burglary, street robbery, etc.
That means the areas where targets are placed are now the priorities, to the detriment of a lot of everything else and this includes anything to do with Road Traffic matters, inc accidents as discussed on here. Why else, for example, would Traffic police depts become so run down, when in most people's view they're essential. If you went to your local police station to report criminal damage to your car, the crime would be 'screened out' i.e. not investigated, before you got home.
It's not right and never will be, but that's the way it is. A couple of Chief Constables have recently rebelled, so hopefully that rebellion will spread, particularly with a change of govt...here's hoping.
There's no point going on about why police don't do this or don't do that..or on occasions when some people state the police are too lazy or too busy feeding themselves doughnuts....they are a disciplined service, required to do as they're told, within a strict discipline code...and they do... they do as they're told. If the public don't like what they see, they need to persuade politicians to change it.... and I sincerely hope they are successful.
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Indeed, Westpig. Having worked with the police at one time I know that individually they're keen to do the right thing, given the opportunity, the personnel and the right guidance.
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