We are toying with buying a camper van (to accommodate 2 adults) so that in early retirement we can cruise the highways and byways of Europe and maybe pop over to North Africa sometime. It would be based in SW France and stored in a ventilated barn and it would only be used for maybe a month or two a year and probably less.
Something LHD and diesel seems the obvious choice.
Buying is about a year or so away and would be at a time to get good deal - winter?
The size of capital outlay isn't too critical - I'm prepared to pay maybe £20,000 max but might prefer a bit less. The depreciation needs some thought though. If it was a car I'd be thinking to maybe buy at 3 - 4 years old but have no idea with a van. The classic VWs aren't cheap but don't suffer depreciation - or do they?
Any hints or tips about where and how to start looking?
Edited by Dulwich Estate on 10/08/2008 at 15:42
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Principally the thing to do is to look at the size of van you want?remember they vary from VW Transporter size to a custom build on a van chassis. The next thing to do is look at layout ..do you want a fixed bed a toilet/shower room? , seating area ? Etc.
The best thing to do is to go to several large motor home dealers and explore their stock this will give you a good idea.
If you want LHD then you?re either looking at pre imported or searching something like www.mobile.de and doing the job yourself.
Having caravanned a lot I would say layout and condition are more important than anything. A motor home isn?t a car and so the mechanically are more robust.
good luck
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I wouldn't worry about the location of the steering wheel. Importing is do-able, but takes time. Once on the continent it's not a big issue - you need to learn to use mirrors, though.
Start at the bottom - eg Mazda Bongo, and work your way up. Hire one for a few days to see what you use/like/need.
If you want LHD Marktplaats.nl is also good for vehicles - and Holland is easy to get to/around if you live in the SE of England, that is.
Size makes a big difference when on the road. I saw a huge camper get turned away, as the campsite had no pitches large enough. Remember that you may want to drive on small/twisty/hilly roads, and then not want to move it again to go a mile for some milk! Lots of people have a scooter on the back, as well as a couple of pushbikes.
Bear in mind that many are built on van chassis that are realistically designed for eight-ten years hard work and then get scrapped. A five years old camper will soon be getting near the end of its design life, but may only have 30k on it. Not an ideal mix, in all reality. See what HJ has to say.
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Why tie up £20k in something you will only use for 4 to 8 weeks per year and have the running, possible storage and depreciation costs ?
How many 4 to 8 weeks hires would you get for that kind of money ? Plus it will be in the bank earning you interest when not paying for hires.
Edited by gmac on 10/08/2008 at 17:17
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Just a thought DE, have you considered a good quality caravan instead, bought used and used in warm climate, will last donkeys years.
Get a dreaded 4 x 4 of some description to tow it anywhere, could be a more economical solution except for ferries of course.
We considered a camper a few years ago, but was a custom built job based on a Mercedes 814 7 ton truck chassis, converted new from a body originally designed as a horse box, ie step frame with extra storage over the cab.
It had a massive boot behind the rear axle with side door, and we measured it would actually have taken a smart car in that compartment.
Just food for alternative thought.
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Thanks for the help so far.
I have at least three things in common with Jeremy Clarkson: 1 & 2 are combined with the way we both bulge a tad over the waist/belt of our denims (me rather more than him). No.3 is a hatred of caravans - whatever James May says. We had a Conway trailer tent for a few years which we enjoyed a lot - that's just about the biggest thing I would want to tow.
Ferry costs don't matter - it would live in France.
I'm the sort of person who doesn't like the hassle of hiring anything really - I much prefer the item to be mine. Especially a vehicle as I'd need to know its capabilities, its service history, foibles and so on. I like piece of mind and saving loads of money isn't a major issue when compared with that - I'm content to take the financial hit over a few years. It wouldn't cost too much anyway: there's no road fund licence in France, insurance would be cheap, I can change an oil filter or two myself and think the sell-on price ought not to be too different to the cost of buying.
We could probably manage just as well driving around in a car and staying in hotels but it wouldn't be anywhere near as flexible and enjoyable. Maybe I'm becoming a hippy and wanting to recreate probably what never was anyway in the 1970s. We've also thought about a boat instead - maybe a narrow boat, but I can't spend too much time on here talking about that - it'll upset the mods.
As far as a possible camper van goes - I'll take a look at internal layout, think small-ish (VW Transporter size) and remember the bikes on the back/top.
Edited by Dulwich Estate on 10/08/2008 at 18:31
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Try looking at:
www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/category-view.asp
This is a motorhome specific forum and you will get hands-on advice from people who do just what you are thinking of doing.
Rule of thumb for a motorvan is: The smaller, the nicer to drive, the bigger, the nicer to live in when you arrive.
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Have you read 'Narrow Dog to Carcassonne' about taking a narrow boat to France - and yes, they did motor it across the Channel.
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As I am having similar thoughts myself through having to spend a lot of months each year in Europe in the future, here are my check points so far.
1. LHD - I think you do need this to deal with European travel without irritation at tolls, entry to automated camp site gates etc.
2. Size comments above are correct. If you want an onboard loo and shower -- and it helps since you can overnight or have short stays perfectly legally in many places if you are self-sufficient -- then the van gets a bit bigger but need not be unmanageable.
3. Consider a demountable if you don't mind compact and like the idea of leaving the living cell behind while you take the flat bed pickup for easier access on narrow roads/fuel economy. They are rarer but if you are patient one will turn up.
4. There is more choice on the Continent for all motorhomes. Since driving 3500 km on French roads recently I am less sure about the longevity of Dutch-registered motorhomes after being passed by dozens running at the 130 kph limit or above! If your French is up to it, try www.leboncoin.fr or ebay.fr. In Germany the typical motorhome seller probably speaks English.
5. Iveco and Mercedes do great chassis and can offer 4WD. However, there is no need to go for the 6WD Steyr truck with touring caravan on the back and a quad slung underneath that drove into the Auchan in Boulogne last Wednesday. A number of Fiat motorhomes overtook me and the newer VWs seem quite powerful.
6. Secondhand motorhomes can seem very expensive on the best chassis. I would tend to look for those that are being sold by retirees giving up camping either because they didn't like it as much as they thought or more often through ill health; what used to be the traditional Honda car buyer.
7. If necessary look for a proper winterised motor caravan. The Germans and Swedes know more about cold weather camping.
8. Personally, as an ex-VW owner, I would not go for the classic motorcaravans unless you enjoy spending time fettling and hanging around at the side of the road. I don't mind the first at all but not the second when I have a timetable to keep.
The 'Narrow Dog...' book is interesting if you are not put off by the author's pompous style and gives a flavour of what to expect on the French canals and rivers. Main point seemed to be avoiding Belgium at all costs; holds true for car drivers too in my experience.
Good luck with the hunt.
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We are going through a similar thought process to DE. Had a very interesting day at a camping and caravanning exhibition at the NEC earlier this year, lots to see and all side by side to get a good idea of layout, size, quality, VFM etc as well as collect brochures and generally do nerdy things. Although it is not necessary to wear a bobble hat there were lots of people there wearing trousers with lots of zips, wearing sensible jackets and carrying small backpacks. Well worth a day out. Our current thinking is along the lines of an Eriba, a small but beautifully constructed caravan to tow behind our car. The bigger ones come with onboard loo, shower etc and as they are pop tops and generally smaller/lighter than most vans are easier to tow. The thinking is that they are small enough to store out of the way and there is no tax, maintenance and other hassle of running a second vehicle. Also much cheaper of course, excellent models available for 10-12k. They can be left on site when fetching the croissants, milk, wine etc and the car is available for local sightseeing with ease of parking. Inevitably there is the downside of towing but this is generally hitching up/siting in my experience and there are various aids available to ease the process.
MGs
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MGs - you'll be glad to know that Eribas hold their price pretty well. I have a sideline dealing in classic Eribas from the 70s, and they regularly and easily fetch £2,000, when their UK-made counterpart is on Ebay at £250 or so. Like everything automotive, they've gained weight over the years. A 70s three berth Eriba weighs < 600 kg, the equivalent new one is 850 kg, though I guess cars' power output has gone up by a similar %ge.
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How about a Hymer Car? www.hymer.com/eu/101139_details:_hymer_car.html -- all the facilities of a motorhome without the bulk and width of a coachbuilt motorhome
Probably outside your price range when new, but maybe a s/h one would be in budget.
I have been doing some research into hiring a motorhome for a trip next month, and the Hymer looks much better than anything available in the UK
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How about a Hymer Car?
Looks like a van to me.
When is a van a car? From the Hymer site......
'Based on a Fiat Ducato chassis, the Hymer Car with a maximum permitted laden mass of 3.3 tonnes'
pmh
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Dulwich Estate, if your login name relates to where you live then you could be affected by the London Low Emission Zone. Diesel engined campers older than 2001 will be paying £200/day to drive in the capital in a couple of years.
Sorry, just saw that you will be keeping it France. Feel free to ignore this advice.
Edited by krs one on 11/08/2008 at 09:17
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I chucked £28,000 at the Rolls Royce of motor-homes some years a'back , a Hymer - the "proper" one with the MB injun - hated the thing ... as someone else said, pig to drive around but a joy to be in ... I would suggest a "good" caravan or a more manageable sized campervan with elevating roof, diesel engine & auto trans.
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Check out a brand called 'Westfalia' (sometimes spelt Westphalia) & based primarily on VW vans ( T5 currently, but many T4s still available).
They're all LHD, predominantly diesel & built to pernickety German motorhome standards.
I had a quick look around: for £20K-ish you could probably expect a 2002-4 model diesel based on a T4 (older shape) or maybe even high-mileage T5 (newer) van.
Should be no problem at all with service/spares in France as it's primarily a European brand. (they're probably well known in N.Africa from the legions of German campervanners too..) They hold their value (from what I've seen) even better than the average for a motorhome/camper. They can come in 2/4 berth, elevating or hightop & all have the basics: cooker, fridge, sink, on-board leisure battery, site hook-up etc.- although toiletting might mean a fancy 'potty' stowed in the back!
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Yeah, Westfalia is a very well respected name ~ tinyurl.com/2nm8fm
Autosleeper do some nice conversions as well.
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More info -thanks.
krs one - it will live in France but might spend a few days in SE London, especially if bought in UK - thanks for the £200 / day advice.
I saw a lovely 2006 Monaco something or other on the recommended website/forum classified section. It was the size of a bus (maybe bigger) and cost a mere £135,000. It had electric / hydraulic everything, air con, plasma TV, dishwasher etc. and was far better kitted out than my house. Who buys these things? The eventual buyer will probably spend £15,000 on a car to tow as well.
Something the size of the T4 / T5 is probably where I'm heading - but a separate WC/shower cubicle would be nice.
Time to go and take a look at a few now.
Edited by Dulwich Estate on 11/08/2008 at 20:22
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