Any other drivers caught in speed trap on A5 out of Llangollen?
Last Sunday, 27 July 2008, I was in a stream of traffic leaving Llangollen on the A5 Berwyn Road. It was a 30mph limit and when I noticed the highly visible bright yellow camera van positioned a short distance before the national speed limit signs I checked my speedo which showed 33mph. Allowing for tolerance I was sure I was OK. Today I received intended prosecution notice for doing 39mph which I cannot believe to be true.
Has anybody else been caught by this trap and interested in finding out if the camera was correctly calilbrated?
Edited by Pugugly on 30/07/2008 at 18:35
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Well worth checking the procedures for establishing if the equipment was calibrated right, I would say, and then querying the NIP.
It's very unlikely your car speedo would have an 18% error.
Was the camera facing you, or following? I wonder if they're trying the old trick of catching people accelerating just before they hit the national speed limit sign?
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Ask to see the picture, but they'll probably refuse unless you go to court.
Simple way to avoid these idiots in N Wales - don't go there.
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You actually need the video - good luck getting it without going to Court. Pepipoo is the best place to start your long battle with North Wales constabulary.
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Thanks for your tip on Pepipoo.
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If you're sure you weren't doing 39mph then I'd challenge it. But did you accelerate to the NSL before the sign and they're trying you for that?
Even if a speed overeads a little at 39mph then you'd have seen an indicated 40+mph surely. Quiet a difference that you'd notice.
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I was sufficient enough distance away from the NSL not to be speeding up anyway and have always been sufficiently paranoid about speeding in North Wales over and above the fact that having had points from a camera a number of years ago have been very aware of my speed and speed limits. On that occaision I was doing 44mph in a 30mph on the A49 in Warrington where the speed limit changes every 100 yards so your'e not sure sure what the limit should be! I was upset with that and since then have been very conscious about speed and cameras. It's the eternal dilemma between standing up for your principles and taking on Goliath with his big war chest and also trying to fit in the small matter of trying to earn a living. Being in the tourist industry in Cheshire I shall spend my money with other more understanding counties and let North Wales lose out on my tourist currency which over the years will be more thanthe value of the speeding ticket!
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Sounds to me you are pretty sure you were not speeding. But like me I might take the fine/points for a quiet life.
I touch wood have not had points since doing close to 100 on the M4 in 1998. On the day in question it was the M4 between Bridgend and Pontypridd with clear skys, dry road, no other cars at all.... and a mobile speed camera got me.
I didn't complain etc as I was caught and guilty but took two days off work to get there (magistrates), a night in a hotel and the train fare. So the fine was only half of it ;-) My fault that time though.
Best of luck on whatever you decide to do.
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33mph on your speedo could only be 33mph OR less.
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Incidentally, there was another speed camera van on the A5 last Sunday - on going southbound out of Capel Curig (going towards Betws y Coed) from a 40mph to a 30mph zone - downhill as well.
It's place where you might 'naturally' be doing just over the limit anyway - even if you're the scrupulous type - my speedo read 32-33mph. Unless you keep your foot well on the brake you creep up to 35-ish without trying. I'm on tenterhooks.
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Why would anyone want to ever go to such a place; everyone should just boycott it and leave them to their paranoia.
What happened to the rules that speed traps had to be on level ground and not within 200m of the end of the limit?
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I was facing the camera. The perverse thing is that had the NIP said I had done 34/35 mph I would have been extremely upset but considered it a possibility I was doing that speed, knowing what we all know about the zealousness towards drivers in North Wales.
The fact I was in a line of traffic which was all driving at the same speed then there must have been many more victims caught at the same time and consider it unbelievable that I reached 39mph, as another person had replied, this would be error of 18% on the speedo which would be similarly ridiculous!
Thanks for your point about requesting information about calibration of the camera.
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Screwloose - I think that these are not actually 'rules' but guidelines ie advisory and not mandatory and non-complaince doesn't invalidate the tickets issued!
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FF,
I know how you feel. I've been done 3 times in around 4 months for doing 36/36/37 in a 30 limit, by monilr vans. It's so easy its untrue, since actually traveling at 30 feels so slow that you could walk faster.
It's the holier than thou types that annoy me in matters speeding. Lets face it pretty much everyone exceeds the 30 pretty often.
Good luck if you fight it. I just paid up & smiled ( well not much ! ) & am now driving like a nun.
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If you are that sure that you were not going as fast as they reckon you were then I would fight it all the way. Don't forget it is up to them to prove you were speeding and that everything is watertight with their case rather than you having to prove that you were not.
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Freddy, very very best of luck, I went to Anglesey the other week, i was short of time, and believe me I spent more energy looking for cameras, dodgy looking vans, people in hi-viz jackets, than I did at the road.
So thankful to get home in one piece.
Who are these robots who think you should get points/fines/increased premiums/step closer to losing your job - by doing 35 in a 30 when the road is empty??? And there aren't any signs to remind you??
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A few years ago, Betws-y-Coed, which is not far from Llangollen, used to be popular with motorbikes. Basically it was a decent ride out from Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester etc. And of course, they spent money in the village when they were there.
Now the bikes have been driven away by the speed cameras.
Don't these people realise that they are killing the tourist industry.
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The roads around there have been killing motorcyclists too,three were killed on North Wales roads last weekend - and whatever your views about speed enforcement, speed is a factor in many of these accidents, I motorcycle in that area and the place has become so hazardous on Saturdays and Sundays that I don't bother at weekends - I have come to fear speeding bikes. Betws is still busy with bikes and plenty of non-bikers will take their place.
The amount of money a motorcyclist spends is minimal as well.
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It's a great irony that those that feature most prominently in the accident statistics are the only ones immune from a camera van.
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>>It's a great irony that those that feature most prominently in the accident statistics
>>are the only ones immune from a camera van.
But they are not. Although the camera may be forward facing in the van, as long as the registration number is recorded by the operator as it passes the van (and a statement is made by the operator) the speeding ticket will stand.
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so your saying the majority of bikers deliberatly go out of their way to break the law otherwise why would they be put off by speed cameras
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There's more to it in Wales - Roads Policing are doing zero tolerance patrols on bikes, they have just acquired two VFR800s and a brace of R1200GS for that purpose. Weekends and Bank Holidays for local bikers has become a misery - largely through none of their doing.
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Weekends and Bank Holidays for local bikers has become a misery - largely through none of their doing.
Not in my part of N.Wales. I lose count of the number of times I'm zapped by at what must be 70+mph on A-roads by bikers, not that it bothers me too much if they're proficient.
Although I see occasional speed cameras, they're still (along with any actual police presence)
pretty rare - I travel quite widely within N.Wales, from A55/A5 to the A/B/C roads in joining them up. If I was still a biker I'd consider myself in motorcycling Nirvana up here.
As with anything, you have to use a little brains - zapping up & down busy parts of the A5/A55/A470 is bound to pick up any camera van/patrol going - sadly, many bikers don't appear to have much nouse in that regard.
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I know the back roads as well !!
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Of course, not suggesting you, PU, have lack of nouse or brains - just those out-of-towners bowling in from Cheshire et al to Snowdonia who then thrash up & down the main roads. If they do it 'sensibly' (i.e. not in the more policed areas) there seems very little chance on NIPs or worse.
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There's more to it in Wales - Roads Policing are doing zero tolerance patrols on bikes they have just acquired two VFR800s and a brace of R1200GS for that purpose. Weekends and Bank Holidays for local bikers has become a misery - largely through none of their doing.
Of course, local bikers could always keep to the speed limits and not break the law.
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It's the holier than thou types that annoy me in matters speeding. Lets face it pretty much everyone exceeds the 30 pretty often.
Its the prats who do 40 between cameras and 20 past them that annoy me - they disturb my serene progress at 30 on cruise!
I heeded the warning and slowed down when I got a ticket for 35 in a 30 area 2 years ago. And if you have children/grandchildren think about the message in the advert with the little girl.
Edit - now why did it put the post here?
Edited by ijws15 on 01/08/2008 at 09:06
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Edit - now why did it put the post here?
If you look at the thread in 'threaded view' all *should* become clear.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=65698&...e
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Surely the best thing to do is to speak to a solicitor who specialises in such cases. I know of an extremely good one if you want his details.
If you are that sure you were not speeding then fight it all the way.
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'so your saying the majority of bikers deliberatly go out of their way to break the law otherwise why would they be put off by speed cameras'
that was for astrobob not you pug.
i just felt he was trying to say that if they couldnt break the law then bikers wont go somewhere, to be honest motorbikes are not exactly a rarity around here on the A55 or else where and often in large groups i have never had a problem with any of them with regards to being a hazard, its not the serious bikers that are the problem its the jack the lads who cant contain themselves that cause the problems.
id rather have 30 members of a biking group in front of me on the roads then one lone biker (not all lone bikers are the same) who thinks he indestructible
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If they want to kill themselves then so be it, I am not going to stop them... though its becoming rather a regular thing round my neck of the woods... but I wish they'd just remember that some of us car drivers like to make progress as well!
Edited by b308 on 01/08/2008 at 08:56
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We were on holiday in the Dee Valley from the 26 July 2008 until 9 August 2008 which we have done for over 20 years in Wales. On our return home we received a letter from the North Wales Police stating that I was travelling at 35 mph on the A5 Berwyn Road, Llangollen in a 30mph zone. I sent a letter back trying to argue my case as I have never ever been accused of speeding in the UK and I am always extra careful in Wales and that it was either a split second loss of concentration or the speed camera was incorrect. But I had a reply stating that I can either send my licence in with the £60 fine or argue in court. I have decided to pay up and accept the 3 points, but I will NEVER, EVER step foot in Wales again. My holidays will be spent elswhere and with my money. I am still fuming
The supposed offence was on the 27 July 2008 on the A5 Berwyn Road Llangollen from CHIRK to CORWEN.
Edited by Pugugly on 30/08/2008 at 19:50
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E-mail the local AM.
Details below.
www.assemblywales.org/memhome/member-search-result...R
Eleanor and Brynlie (He of the fuel blockades) are critics of Brunstrom.
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That bit of road is pretty notorious - if memory serves me right around 6 years ago Brunstrom courted controversy on that very road by releasing video of a retired Bank Manager being caught. The offending driver had gone to the press to complain.
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I have been sent on a speeding seminar for doing 32.6mph - so where is the 10% there?
Don't you believe it...
As an added precaution - I'd certainly be checking the rim & tyre profile sizes to ensure they are the correct ones specified for the class, make and type of vehicle you were driving that day.
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What equipment caught you. GAtso's and LTi do not use decimal speeds and round down. However Vascer and provada used decimal places so were you stopped by the BiB. Regards Peter
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speed cameras not only on the ground nowadays - heavens above!
www.traffictechnologytoday.com/news.php?NewsID=7688
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What equipment caught you? Peter
I have no idea as then I was not clued up on what speed camera's were. 2002 and my first and to date last ticket...
It was late evening, January on Beverley High Rd in Hull. Large white transit style van - no markings on it at all. Camera unit external to vehicle - just saw a HUGE white flash and heard a loud popping noise.
I turned around and came back to see what had happened. I sat & watched as countless others triggered this device.
It was like an old fashioned camera on its tripod. Mr Plod/operator sat in back of vehicle looking through a slot no bigger than 9 x 12 inch square. The external camera being used was as big as a microwave with a flash unit on it a good 6" in dia.
Hull is not a good place to go pushing any of the speed limits as the police force and the SCP there really do operate a zero tolerence policy.
This is a really good place to go to see interceptor cars and ANPRS teams too - they have plenty of them...
...and just as many 'customers' to justify their use.
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dallo - I agree 100%. there are those on this site who will be REALLY annoying and say,"you broke the limit so pay the fine" ..check my entry robin hoods bay no more for my small victory
but I agree... why go to wales? no cars, no traffic, no accidents.. welsh nirvana
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