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To Simon T - the C200 MB was quickly despatched in disgrace for letting us down. I lost confidence in it, then began to hate it so it had to go. Pity really (and expensive to Part Exch). Although I moan about MB and say "never again" - I don't really mean it. The new E class looks great. There's something great about driving an MB looking out over the bonnet at the badge and feeling all superior.
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TW
BMW service regime is as follows:
1st service: 'Oil service' (Engine oil and general inspection)
2nd service: 'Inspection I' (As above plus more detailed inspection, plugs etc)
3rd service: 'Oil service'
4th service: 'Inspection II' (As Insp. I plus air filter etc and additional checks)
repeat in this order for life of car
BMW don't use regular time intervals for service, only mileage. Mileage intervals between the services are indicated by an on-board indicator (which takes account of operational factors), althought additional oil changes are recomended for low-mileage cars.
I'm sure a big BMW dealer dropped out of the 'official' BMW dealer network so he could import cars from Europe. Was that Sytner?
Check the warranty conditions for potential effects of non-official services, and bear in mind a non-official service record may reduce secondhand value, if you intend to sell the car when it's relatively new.
Regards
John S
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Seems when you get your Deutsche wagen it's a case of "open your wallet and say after me 'take whatever you want'". Let's hope the feel of those 3 points in front of you powering past the hoi-polloi is worth it. I guess it must be. I get something similar on my Harley thundering past look-alike rice rockets with gnomes crouched over them.
I have just had what sounded like Inspection 1 above done on my Ford for PHP11,690. Call that about UKL156.00. And there I was doing the arrogant foreigner complainer bit in front of poor little Eliza in the service bay. I shall be quieter from now on.
Although these guys have their moments. During a party after the recent local council elections, some of the boys were firing off their revolvers in the air after a few stubbies, as they are prone to do, and one slug on the way down smashed the rear quarter light of my pickup. Easy enough to replace, piece of tinted glass held by 3 screws and a catch which partially opens it. Same Eliza quoted me equiv of UKL 320 and 6 weeks delivery from Detroit. Phoned my mate in Florida, shipped that day, got it in 72 hours: total cost including Fedex, customs duty: UKL121.00. Fitted it myself 20 minutes. It sure pays to think laterally.
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Growler
Phillipines sure sounds like fun! The good news is, I suppose, that it was the Pick up in the way and not a part of your body. I've often wondered how amny casualties resulted from such activities. My only experience is with shot guns, when pellet fall is annoying, but far less damaging.
To be fair, UKP 156 for Inspection I wouldn't be far off the mark, I believe.
Many of us also think laterally for spares. There are planty of outlets for OE spares which cut costs significantly. I'll use the BMW Agent for service - frankly it's easier than doing it myself, but any comments about brake pads or similar being needed will be met with a polite, 'Noted, but I request that you don't do the work'. Then it will be a call to German and Swedish or similar for the parts.
Regards
John S
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John:
Local elections throughout the country: 76 deaths, 540 injured. A fraction of New Year's Eve fireworks casualties so doesn't rate much of a mention. Wild West here all right.
Actually Ford here I find pretty good, they are a recent entrant and very much a minority player in the market vs the Japs and Koreans, so price is keener and they try a bit harder: DVD cinema and coffee shop while you wait for your lube and a play area for the kids. Nearly all the staff are female, nice.
In my DHL days, the lads wherever they were used to source their BMW and Mercedes parts in Dubai (no taxes and low prices, then freight them free on the company to wherever they had to go. Didn't know how well off we were...
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Growler
Reminds me of my trip to China a few years back. Chinese New Year celebrations are also a cause of many casualties, due to the huge number of fireworks used.
It's the only time I've seen luggage X-rayed before boarding a train. At Beijing station they were doing this to check for fireworks. Absolute chaos as thousands headed home for the holidays (not that it isn't busy at any time). As 'foreign businessmen' we were spared the queue for the X-ray machine. A huge poster featuring graphic photos of severely injured people was in place above the machine, all allegedly resulting from incorrect use of fireworks.
Regards
John S
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John says: "... bear in mind a non-official service record may reduce secondhand value, if you intend to sell the car when it's relatively new."
I agree, John, and the emphasis needs to be on the "relatively new" in my opinion. A full service record probably saved a great deal of money for those owners whose engines suffered from cylinder coating erosion in the mid-90s, where BMW stretched their warrantee to 100,000 miles so long as there was FSH.
On the other hand, I don't think the car has to be very old before the 'cost against potential benefit' ratio of Full BMW Service History levels out and then reverses. My 1992 BMW 525i had FBMWSH when I bought it in 2000 but I would have paid the same price without the history following the careful pre-purchase inspection that I gave it. Likewise, knowing how much the previous owner accepted for it, I don't think he would have received much less if it had had no service history at all!
I am in the midst of an Inspection II service, carried out by myself. The cost is likely to be no more than £70 (£24 synthetic oil, £16.50 NGK spark plugs, £16 oil and air filters, £4 brake fluid, £7 coolant) plus an afternoon.
If I had needed them, front brake pads would have been less than £26, with no labour charge, as against Dogbreath's £116 (£74 + £42). I also recently fixed a handbrake squeak in less than an hour at no cost - I wonder what needed doing for Dogbreath to be charged £74?!
I think that leaves me about £400 in pocket on this one service alone. No hassle with courtesy cars and dealing with service receptionists; I simply do a bit as and when I feel like it and when the car is not needed and put the savings away against my next BMW (cue: smug look on face).
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Dizzy I know you are right - I will go to a non-franchised in future. Maybe I should do it myself. The money is bad but its the hassle that really winds me up!
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Just been told that the squeek cannot be fixed and that it is a characteristic of the 7 series. They have adjusted the handbrake as much as possible but it still rubs. Anyone else heard of this characteristic?
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I hope you're not going to pay 74 quid for that! They didn't even fix it!
Mark.
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Db,
I wouldn't have thought the handbrake mechanism on the 7-Series was much different to that on my 5-Series. Does the rear brake disc have an integral handbrake drum?
My squeak occurred as I drove along and it came complete with a vibration. The cause was a very dry, slightly corroded, mechanism inside the drum (ie. the part of the linkage that pushes the brake shoes onto the drum). As my car is an automatic and there isn't a hill for miles around, I normally use the Park position on the transmission and seldom use the handbrake, hence the mechanism started to stick. The vibration was caused by the shoes on one side not fully releasing due to the dryness of the mechanism.
To cure the fault, I removed the road wheel, undid the caliper mounting bolts, dropped the brake caliper and pads away from the disk, removed the disc/drum and blew the dust out of both the drum and the handbrake mechanism. I then lightly lubricated the mechanism and the shoe rubbing points with copper grease and re-assembled.
I assume that your squeak occurs as you pull up the handbrake rather than as you drive along? Even so, I imagine that the cause could be similar, in which case a good clean and careful lubrication could cure it.
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Dizzy I can hear the squeek at low speeds. When the car is parked with the handbrake on there is no squeek when I rock the car by pushing down on the boot. With the handbrake off the car squeeks when rocked in this way. I don't really care provided it is not dangerous nor causing any damage.
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Off BMW's I know but this is exactly the squeak I had on my Vectra and it was the leading shoe not releasing fully and thus becoming worn. So I would suggest Dizzy's advice to free off, clean and lubricate is as good a starting point as any.
However I cannot imagine what they could do for £74 which does not already include this. At least it appears that they might have accepted the principle that you don't have to pay for work done to cure a fault which they don't actually cure.
Might be inadvisable for you to suggest the work that needs doing though, in case our advice is duff, then they could make you pay for the work anyway regrdless of the result if you get my drift.
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They have waived the charge for fixing the squeek....however the saga has just taken a new twist..my wife has taken the courtesy car back and they have noticed a scrape on the alloys - they want £100 to fix the alloy. This is a nightmare!!!
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They have waived the charge for fixing the squeek....however the saga has just taken a new twist..my wife has taken the courtesy car back and they have noticed a scrape on the alloys - they want £100 to fix the alloy. This is a nightmare!!!
I take it the garage didn't offer a colision waiver then?
Local Vauxhall agent offers one at £3. A lot cheaper than the £100 excess if you happen to prang it!!
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Tell them to take a hike and prove it wasn't like that when she got it.
They only pay about £40 to have an alloy repaired anyway, at least that's all our local dealer pays, and it's all that I would pay as well.
Blue
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Blue,
Check the date of the posting.
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*blush*
What's this old relic doing at the top of our forum? Is there a Necromancer at work here or something? :-)
Blue
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Sorry Blue
I'm to blame here, went searching for a thread on BMW servicing and it brought up this rather long one, i should of checked the date. Think ill start a new one.
Paul
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Db, I originally felt certain that a sticking brake shoe would be found to be the cause of the squeak, especially as some of the symptoms are not far removed from those on my 5-Series and, it seems, on FiF's Vectra.
On the other hand, your 'bounce' test and your comment that "they have adjusted the handbrake as much as possible but it still rubs" makes it more likely that the problem is caused by the handbrake cable not releasing enough to allow the shoes to come right off. Supporting this view is the fact that (on the 5-Series at least) the adjustment of the actual handbrake mechanism within the brake drum is automatic, via operation of the footbrake, so no point in manual adjustment there.
Adjustment of the cable would *normally* be required only to compensate for stretch so as to allow the handbrake to be applied without undue movement of the handbrake lever. However, if the cable is too tight, this could prevent the brake shoes from fully coming off and a squeak would then be a likely result. Slackening the cable should overcome this and I suspect this is what they have tried. Maybe they have slackened it as far as they feel able without causing the handbrake lever to come up too far when fully on.
A handbrake squeak when the car is in motion must mean that friction is being generated. This friction could be so minor that it has no measurable impact or, as in my own case, it could lead to heating up of the brake disc/drum unit and road wheel. If severe enough I presume it could overheat the wheel bearings and bearing/brake seals, though it sounds as though you needn't have any concern at all about that.
If the shoes aren't totally free to return to their stops, this would not help matters since the handbrake relies to an extent on the pull of the return springs on the shoes. You might want to check the shoes for free return, or have a reliable non-franchise mechanic to do so.
What would bother me is you being told "that the squeak cannot be fixed and that it is a characteristic of the 7 series". Are they saying that a car they sold for c.£40,000 when new came with an incurable squeak? I find this incredible and very hard to believe.
It does seem likely that the handbrake lever and/or cable is at the root of the problem, ie. that the handbrake does not have a sufficient degree of on/off movement to fully apply/release the shoes from the drums, but I would be truly amazed if this is an incurable design fault.
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Just a thought, this thread seems to have moved into the Technical area. Moderator Mark - does it all get lost if it stays in Discussion?
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
But what about threads like "Life Outside the Forum"?
Perfect for preservation, but totally non-technical!
One of the problems with organising sub-forums is knowing how many to set up.
And however many you do, the poster then has to decide which one his new thread fits into.
And then the reader has to decide which one the things that interest him might be found in.
And then remember where he found it.
And then check the others just in case.
And then.......
How about a live reference archived forum threads forum (the life-raft forum?;-) to save non-technical (non-mechanical) reference threads where new threads can't be started, but transferred threads can be posted to.
Or is this what the mystery thread that FiF spotted is going to be all about?
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and to follow on with Bogush's point,
You then get into the discussion off at a tangent from the original thread, eg Ford Ka Siezed spark plugs, where a number had interesting discussions (well I thought so) about thread forms, wiped joints etc.
Absolutely nothing at all to do with the original subject and hopelessly off topic.
Yet if they were carved off into a thread of their own, or even worse into discussion as they were indeed technical then it would all look silly.
My vote, as the Mods know, goes to as few fora as possible. The problem is that the subject which is crucially important to you, the reader, might be of no interest at all to others, but hey isn't that sort of thing what makes life worth living and I for one am prepared to put up with that.
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>>does it all get lost if it stays in Discussion?
This one won't, no.
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A friend of mine,BMW owner used to say when his car was serviced it came back washed and vacuumed;I then pointed out he was paying £60-70 for the hour's work to do this
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I have a 1997 R reg 728I. Bought new and serviced by the local main agent. Went in for inspection 2 last month at 59000 miles. I got a phone call some 2 hours later to say that their technician had reported lumpy idleing and could they keep the car a further day to investigate. The next morning they phoned to say that they had received the go ahead from BMW to replace the block and pistons, they could start the work the day after and would I like a courtesey car. I didnt neeed the car but mine was delivered back 3 days later with new short motor. ALL AT NO COST because the car had full bm history. Not bad service for a 5 year old car!!!!!!!!
Matt
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Matt,
I totally agree, that was very good service and I think that BMW itself has behaved very responsibly over the cylinder block problem. Other parties, like a BMW main dealership not so far from where I live, have been quite irresponsible in my view in adamantly denying that the problem exists when questioned by a potential used E39 buyer (myself) two years ago, when the problem was already well known.
Two other BMW dealerships didn't mention the problem until challenged and then played it down. These attitudes decided me against buying a two or three year old E39 from a BMW dealership and I went instead for a much older E34 that I had seen at a small non-franchise dealer.
Some who know the history of the problem say that BMW were hardly to blame for it happening in the first place because it was due to some unexpected changes in the sulphur content of petrol - but they go on to say that BMW should have recognised the problem much earlier and stopped production of the alusil-coated cylinder bores.
There must be only a miniscule list of examples where a full service history can result in free replacement of a major item after 5 years. However, this does make much more difficult the decision as to when and if to stop having the car professionally serviced. Incidentally, in the case of the BMW cylinder block problem, they recognised full service histories from bona fide non-franchise servicing points, not just from BMW dealerships.
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I'm sure a big BMW dealer dropped out of the 'official' BMW dealer network so he could import cars from Europe. Was that Sytner?
I think Synter is still an official dealer. You're probably thinking of Cheyne :
www.cheynedirect.com
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>> I'm sure a big BMW dealer dropped out of the 'official' >> BMW dealer network so he could import cars from Europe. >> Was that Sytner? I think Synter is still an official dealer. You're probably thinking of Cheyne : www.cheynedirect.com
The above is correct. Cheyne have sold their showroom to Sytner and moved to Newbury about 2 years ago. Sytner is my local dealer but I have never seen eye to eye with them. They are usually overworked and thus have just booked my car for a service with Heathrow BMW (30 odd miles away).
I do think that BMW's behaviour regarding service costs is bad. For the 1st 3 years when the car is under warranty the charges are astronomic but as soon as the car gets to 4+ years the charges are quite reasonable. It is obvious why they do it (as soon as a car is out of warranty few go back for a BMW service) but why can't they have reasonable service costs for cars whatever their age (like they do with Mini)?
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Doesn't help the rest of us, but they do seem to be getting the mesage. In a similar deal to the £100 'service for 5 years' MINI package, the new 7 series comes with 'free' servicing and maintenance for 55yr/75k miles. Not that I'd ever consider one, at any age - too many bits to go wrong!
Thanks for the info on Cheyne. I'm not that far from Newbury - could be worth checking out.
Regards
John S
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John,
I thought the cost of the servicing package for the 7 Series was going to be £500 extra?
I'm sure these packages are pre-empting the proposed open market for new cars. That is, if you don't buy your new BMW in the UK and from a BMW-franchised dealer, then you will miss out on this low cost servicing deal. Smart move.
Anyone heard anything lately about the open market in the UK? Is it going ahead? If so, when does it come into effect? Thanks in advance.
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Dizzy
You could be right. The article I saw was a little unclear whether it covered the 'normal' service 'free' and there was an optional charge of £500 to include some other potential consumables. Whatever, it isn't a bad deal.
As a response to the open market, it gives an effective discount on the vehicle, gets the owner to use franchised service, and perhaps provides a source of 'BMW serviced' secondhand vehicles to the franchised dealers.
Regards
John S
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John,
I've just trawled through BMW UK's very-slow-as-always website and found the following news clip:
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BMW's unique Concours service package has proved to be a resounding success with over 84 per cent of owners opting to take the package on purchase of the car.
Concours is an entirely new, five-year, 75,000 mile service and maintenance package for the new 7 Series. A one-off fee of £500 (a fraction of the retail cost) will cover service and maintenance by BMW technicians, including engine oil and filters, wiper blades, brake pads and discs, spark plugs, air filters, microfilter, brake fluid and coolant.
When the car is sold, Concours passes to the new owner, which will help to enhance residual values.
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As you say, not a bad deal - the cost is not that much more than a single Inspection II on the present 7-Series! I'm surprised that 16% of new 7-Series buyers haven't taken up this offer, irrespective of whether they were private or corporate purchases.
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Just got back from 1st Service - Oil service at a BMW main dealer. (Thinks) Can it really be a year since I've had the car?
Service Cost £105.29 (a lot, but not my money!)
And I like the people in the service department (better than the sales team!)
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Our local main dealer charges nearly £12 per litre for the synthetic oil recommended by BMW (Castrol SLX), but will allow you to supply your own, which I get from Halfords at £8 per litre, saving you around £30 (depending on model)
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