Seen recently. Lad had gone 8,000 miles from new and oil had `run out`. Never checked and of course, "NOT MY FAULT".
I think the maker was being blamed...... the Manufacturer, maybe.. but the typical 2008 British "Its not my fault".
(actually, not even put like that.. as though "own Fault" even as a concept could not exist, with the words "not my fault" not actually written and blame being passed on directly as though its a *RIGHT* that someone else is responsible.)
Where did this `no personal accountability` come from? Its on motoring forums, on the TV and in Rags, where typically citizens are standing there astounded and outraged, that despite past criminal behaviour, they cannot be personally`wiped clean` in a teflon esq, (or virginity restoration) way and be able to have any career they WANT.
At its worst, it seems almost like the incumbent occupies an `Outer Limits` reality and I wonder how they survive day to day life
It seems to have been on motoring forums recently too, in varying levels, sometimes full on and often just a hint of it, however five years ago its much less evident.
Its starting to irritate and I`m picking up all the little hints of this underlying failure to accept personal accountability, while before they went over my head.
I`m tempted to move to France, buy a big pile in the middle of nowhere and live a rural life with no contact with the UK and the English speaking world, especially the news.
Sure a little tongue in cheek, (maybe) but just how do you continue to tolerate the continuing development of self seeking behaviour in UK society AND to read all about it on motoring forums? Its penetrated there and its on the roads.......
So belatedly to a question
What have you seen recently regarding motoring along the lines of outrage at possibly being held responsible for one`s own actions, when its obvious that no one else could possibly be responsible?
Examples from elsewhere... and can you tolerate it ;)
Edited by oilrag on 21/07/2008 at 09:55
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It isn't even a new phenomenon! 15 Years ago a chav was up on a moving train, trying to steal a car radio from a car being transported to a port. The train went under a bridge and his head was knocked off. Interviewed on TV the next day his weeping mother said - quote "I blame the car makers - they make it too easy for the kids"
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In the local rag a few weeks back a disabled person was ticketed for incorrect display of the blue badge - she'd been showing it with the photo upermost which meant that the expiry date of the badge (on the other side) was not in view...
"Moral Outrage" at being ticketed!
I agree with you oilrag, and whilst there was the odd ocassion 15/20 years ago, its now getting out of hand - three things have made it worse, the Press reporting incidents as if its someone elses fault and not the stupid "person" who did it, health and safety regulations, and they have lead to an increase in that good 'ol import from the US, "no win, no fee" - clamp down on that and we may start to get back to normaility....
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Running out of oil is quite common and indeed it is not always driver's fault! In most cars, low oil warning light comes when already it is too late. Most people still believe that it is not necessary to check oil level unless servicing is due.
I wonder why manufacturers don't include a gauge for oil level. It doesn't cost a bomb do fit this.
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"I wonder why manufacturers don't include a gauge for oil level"
They do its called a dipstick.
They have fitted a gauge for fuel for decades, but it doesn't stop people running out!
When my neighbour took delivery of his new Focus 2.0TDCi a few weeks ago (his first diesel) I told him to keep an eye on the oil level. I saw him yesterday, he's now done 3,000 miles and sure enough it has used some oil.
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They do its called a dipstick.
I thought that was the name of the person who let their car run out of oil.... ;)
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"most cars, low oil warning light comes when already it is too late"
When the oil PRESSURE warning light comes on there is low oil pressure which might be because the oil level is very low. It might be because of something else. If it's been low for some time then damage probably done. I still cannot get through to my step-son that it's a low pressure warning not low oil.
His Pug 306 ended up sounding a bit like a bag of spanners before it finally immobilised itself for good. It did not sound like that when he got it but it was losing oil and he never bothered checking it.
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Every time I stop for fuel, I check under the bonnet - dipstick, radiator expansion bottle, washer bottle etc.
Takes all of 2 minutes while the garage's petrol-jockey pumps the juice in.
If I was a lazy so-and-so, i'd sit in the cra and get HIM to check it.
ATF and power steering gets checked every 2 weeks (carwash day!)
Obviously the UK scenario of pump-your-own makes that more difficult, but surely basic common sense tells you that checking under the bonnet may be a good idea, or that those lights on the dash are there for a reason, not just to look pretty?
ATF and power steering gets checked every 2 weeks (carwash day!)
Are we back to the 'car user v car driver' scenario again?
I've long argued that a "basic mechanicals" should be part of the driving test.
Imagine pitching up for the Test, and having to demonstrate:
* opening the bonnet
* Checking the oil level, and show where you'd put oil in if it was low
* showing where the jack is, where the jacking spot is, where the fuel goes in...
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Ian: I've long argued that a "basic mechanicals" should be part of the driving test.
We have this in Ireland, introduced shortly before I took my test in 2002. Didn't stop a mate who took his test around the same time writing off the works Citroen van at his first job because he never checked it despite the oily-smelling black cloud that used to come out the back...
Then again, don't they say its impossible to invent a foolproof system because fools are so ingenious?
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This attitude is not new but getting worse I am sorry to say.
About 22 years ago I was behind a car that had stopped at a road junction. He pulled away and turned left which meant he went uphill. I was about 3 car lengths behind and stationary. For some reason he suddenly stopped and rolled back all the way into my car. If this was not bad enough he got out of his motor and said to me "you were following me too closely". I was speechless - as the damage was only a broken side light[ mine] I just left him to it. I just could not see that any conversation with him would be in any way profitable.
screwtape
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Similar story: There's an ongoing debate in the local papers at present about the length of time it takes to obtain (a) a learners licence; and (b) a full drivers license.
Hordes of irate parents writing in to say that it is unfair that little Johnny/Julie has to wait 6 months for a test appointment, and what are the traffic departments going to do about recruiting more testing staff etc etc etc.
Then it turns out that over 70% FAIL their written learners license test!
And the actual driving bit has a first-time failure rate of close to 80%
Maybe if the majority of candidates actually did a bit of preparation work - ie read and learned the book; OR took sufficient lessons in driving! - the failure rate would drop, and thus the waiting lists for tests would shorten.
Or am I missing something here?
It seems that folk believe they have an inalienable RIGHT to own and drive a motor vehicle, despite not being able to prove to the examiners' satisfaction that they have sufficient knowledge and ability when it comes to laws, signage, vehicle control and confidence.
It amazes me when Mrs X passes her test on the 47th attempt.
Surely someone should explain after about 15 "tries" that if she took that long to get it right, she really isn't suited for a motorised lifestyle?
Edited by Webmaster on 21/07/2008 at 18:25
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I'm NOT so sure that it's getting worse.
Many of the young people I've met have been hard-working, highly motivated and well able to accept responsibility - even if they moan about it.
Same with my generation (us grumpy old gits) - we accept the responsibility, and moan about it (perhaps more than the young people).
There's always ben the odd individual who does more than moan.
However, if I were to take much notice of the news / talk shows / forums etc. - then - we're all doomed :-)
I don't think the OP needs to move to France - though that may be an excellent idea - just ignore the news .
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I've long argued that a "basic mechanicals" should be part of the driving test.
Checking engine oil, break fluid, coolant etc. is indeed part of the test! Examiner will ask one random question after you open the bonnet.
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Oilrag's OP was less about not topping up oil than about very silly, passive and infantile consumerist attitudes which seem to be becoming general.
It applies to all product fields of course including politics and the law, but let's stick to cars.
Manufacturers tend to sell cars as if they were white goods. The owner's manual these days just tells the owner where the keyhole is. It often doesn't even list the items covered in services. All problems have to be referred to the dealer. The idea is that you are sold this mysterious box and the service to go with it. You don't have to worry your pretty little head about the details because everything will be looked after for you.
All lies of course. But people believe lies these days because most of them are liars themselves. I feel just as depressed as oilrag about all this. More perhaps.
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Manufacturers tend to sell cars as if they were white goods. The owner's manual these days just tells the owner where the keyhole is. It often doesn't even list the items covered in services. All problems have to be referred to the dealer. The idea is that you are sold this mysterious box and the service to go with it. You don't have to worry your pretty little head about the details because everything will be looked after for you.
I think this is spot on. Look under the bonnet, and you're greeted with a plastic shroud - it may as well carry a label like your TV or microwave oven to say "No user serviceable parts inside". There is no indication as to the marvel of precision engineering that lies within, or the care which it requires.
That, and service intervals extending for 20,000+ miles mean that even an engine using a minimal amount of oil will suffer if owned by someone who hasn't a clue that it needs to be checked.
I think there's a real argument for basic safety checks (fluids, tyres, bulbs) to be a failable part of the driving test.
Cheers
DP
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>All lies of course. But people believe lies these days because most of them are liars themselves. I feel just as depressed as oilrag about all this. More perhaps.
Off topic I admit, but just like the bloke who recently came out as Alan Sugars "Apprentice". Even though Sugar himself was aware he had lied on his CV.
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Funny that the increasing reports of peoples bad behavior mirror the rise of the internet as a form of comunication/discussion?
Also, funny how for some reason this impending ressession is going to be "apocalyptic" and some how worse than we've seen before. We've never in history had a swapping of thoughts like we do now. Its hard to be neutral on anything and mindsets can un-knowingly lodge.
An motoring example would be:- A mate tells me he's bought a Fiat Panda. Next thing I know I'm seeing them all over the place. Are Fiat Pandas suddenly more popular because my mates got one and my brain is picking them out on the road?
One "housing" related website I have dropped in to recently would seriously poison your mind and set you off thinking in a certain way.
I try to keep as open a mind as possible on these things and think vast uber majority of people are fine.
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One "housing" related website I have dropped in to recently would seriously poison your mind and set you off thinking in a certain way.
An awesome forum and quite often a motoring thread or two. Even some references to honestjohn recently ;)
Car sales, motoring taxes etc all play a part in their apocalyptic vision.
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It isn't even a new phenomenon! 15 Years ago a chav was up on a moving train trying to steal a car radio from a car being transported to a port. The train went under a bridge and his head was knocked off. Interviewed on TV the next day his weeping mother said - quote "I blame the car makers - they make it too easy for the kids"
HAHAHAH Im still laughing. The is the best punishement he could have probably have got. GOOD.
One less for us to worry about.
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We go through a daily "not my fault" ritual with my two teenage daughters, despite trying to educate them otherwise!
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Another weekly ritual that seems to have gone is the checking of lights, in particular brake lights. The numbers of cars I see now with both lights out is increasing.
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Another weekly ritual that seems to have gone is the checking of lights in particular brake lights. The numbers of cars I see now with both lights out is increasing.
How often do people see neighbours opening their bonnet (to check fluids) or checking their tyre pressures? I think I've seen just one other person check their fluids/tyres where I live. I open my bonnet most weekends, and people probably think I'm mad lol.
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I'm in unusually optimistic mode on this one, i believe this attitude will self regulate as and when the proverbial hits the fan in good old Blighty which it surely will.
It may take a few years, as there's still enough world money to borrow to float the sinking ship Brittania, trouble is, how will we ever repay it as we don't make anything to sell anymore.
More enlightened, better educated, and more intelligent people please do tell, as this poor soul is flumoxed.
When the country is good and bust, skint, broke however you want to put it, and the easy money of the last 20 or 30 years vanishes for probably as long, then we will see a change, the next batch of youngsters won't have this endless pot of credit and parents money to spend (well some will, but the numbers will be greatly diminished).
In OR's post, he is obviously describing a relatively young and somewhat spoiled brat, who somehow has the funds to enable the purchase or at least the full time use of a new car, can any of you remember just how fantastic that would have seemed to most of us at that age. Good grief i've only just bought my first (and probably last) new vehicle last year after some 36 years of car ownership.
When my age group were young bucks, we really struggled to get the few quid together to buy a wreck of a motor which though often driven enthusiastically, would be looked after as we knew we had not the lolly to get others to repair it, and we had to repair often, and learned the hard way about looking after mechanical things.
Its not all the youngsters fault of course (actually it is but slightly differing reason) in that he obviously has things too easy, now whether his dad gave him too much or spoiled him in other ways, he obviously has never been taught to look after or respect things, kind of makes me wonder how he views other people and whether they are treated with the same neglect.
I'd imagine Oilrag that in your previous career you've seen all sorts of astonishing and quite repulsive creatures, should imagine a book could easily come from your reminisces. Maybe if there are some motoring related stories you could tell without hurting the innocent!!?, you could furnish us with some of the more comical ones?
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National Oil Check Day - 25/07/2008
www.checkyouroil.co.uk
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I can normally spot partially deflated (and worn0 tyres with a quick glance. If pressure near to okay obviously I cannot tell the difference.
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Astute points GB. I remember when the first Mrs Backbridge ( there have only been two thus far ) came home to say that there was something wrong with the steering on her then new Fiat Panda. She explained that although she was turning the wheel that she had been scared to death because the car was carrying straight on. I had been working from home all day in a windowless room. I agreed to go and check it out. Got outside to find freshly fallen snow on top of ice. Um...........
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Astute points GB. I remember when the first Mrs Backbridge ( there have only been two thus far ) came home to say that there was something wrong with the steering on her then new Fiat Panda. She explained that although she was turning the wheel that she had been scared to death because the car was carrying straight on. I had been working from home all day in a windowless room. I agreed to go and check it out. Got outside to find freshly fallen snow on top of ice. Um...........
Brilliant...................reminded me of my first SHMBO. Back in the mid-eighties and recently qualified with a 2.1 Hons degree in electrical engineering.........within a week of owning her first car she comes home without it saying "my cars broken down......it won't start". I go to said vehicle only to find she had run out of petrol and had flattened the battery trying to re-start it (without putting any more fuel in).
Edited by Webmaster on 22/07/2008 at 01:42
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Cycling home from school one day, I was several miles from home when I saw a scrape on the road, at times as deep as a gouge. It which didn't seem to stop. The odd thing thing was that it was there ahead of me through each junction, even as I got onto the smaller roads near home.
When I turned in the gateway at home, then scrape was still there in front of me, continuing as a gouge through the gravel ... and under the back of mum's car. I got off the bike, and took a peep underneath to see that the exhaust had broken off behind the engine and was digging into the ground.
"Car going okay, mum?", I asked once inside.
"Fine," she says.
"Notice any funny noises?"
"No. Why do you ask?"
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By coincidence, just skimming the wires, and found this bit from a dublin-based newspaper:
I'll edit down to just the important bits.
*publication of some worrying recent research. It shows that many owners risk serious damage to the engines of their car, 4x4 or SUV by waiting until the oil light comes on before doing anything about it.
*as many as three-quarters of motorists wrongly rely on the dashboard's oil warning light as a reminder to top up their engine. The mistake they make is that the oil warning light really means levels are so low that serious mechanical damage is likely to occur.
*Although 96pc of those surveyed claimed they knew what the warning light signified, only one-in-four correctly repeated standard manufacturer advice of stopping immediately and switching the engine off. A third of drivers would continue until they could top up - despite the risk of blowing the engine altogether.
*Three in five drivers don't carry out the dipstick test to check their oil level every month, as recommended, and 10pc said they never do.
*The survey ... showed that younger motorists (17-24) are most careless. One-in-four admitted they never check their oil.
And older drivers are not far behind - 22pc of those over 65 failed to realise that the oil light coming on is a last-ditch alert.
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its a strange situation i check my oil weekly its almost an obsession but other non-car related things i dont even worry about, for instance the only time i have ever checked the filter in my washing machine is after having to mop up the giant puddle on the floor.
maybe its because we rely on our cars more i dont know. but then again when was the last time you overheard 2 lads in the pub discussing their 15kg 1900rpm washing maschines with as much zeal as they discuss their cars so maybe it comes down to what we regard as important in our lives.
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Washing machines?
Aaaaah, but wait until something goes wrong with the washing machine, and you'll hear the conversation, which mimics any conversation about car repairs:
"Can you believe it!!! 20quid! 20&^$#^ quid!!! All for a poxy broken bit of plastic!!! It must cost two bob to make!
"And notice you can't just BUY the bit of plastic, Oh NO! You have to buy the whole ^%$# unit!
"...and have you tried to FIT one? I dunno how they design things these days - you have to hold it backwards while turning the screwdriver with your left hand while standing on your head!
"Still, if I'd taken it to a dealer, he'd have charged me at least 200!
etc etc etc
:)
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"if there are some motoring related stories you could tell without hurting the innocent!!?,"
Motoring would be the `needle in the haystack` I`m afraid GB ;), as for the other.. !
Edited by oilrag on 22/07/2008 at 08:57
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I guess I saw `oil` as the symptom, rather than the underlying `disease of contemporary society`.
I suspect taking personal accountability for one`s own actions has not been helped by misunderstandings of the Human Rights Act.
I mean, not the Act itself, but a `side effect` of its existence, in particular amongst those susceptible to `locking in` on a title without further reading and analysis.
The Act was always at the front of our minds when working in Local Government and there was enough confusion there, initially, let alone in the community.
I remember a tendency developing for the Act to be addressed as in (typically) " what about the Human Rights Act" whenever personal progress/wants were blocked in any way.
Going through the Act with someone often led to baffled looks, as clearly, expectations from the Acts title, do not match many peoples expectations. Expectations of actual `action` and satisfaction for self at removal of `the personal problem`. Any problem!.
A small step then towards `I have rights` and the expression of that mind set in behaviour on the roads. As in, `I will move onto the two lane roundabout and try to go straight on, even though you are already on it as I HAVE RIGHTS-and-I WANT-TO-MAKE-PROGRESS`..
Other social factors too of course. (will spare you the book ;)
Edited by oilrag on 22/07/2008 at 10:04
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I find the same with the people who moan about parking wardens. Under the majority of circumstances, if you get a parking ticket it's because you shouldn't have parked there or didn't pay. But all I hear is "I'll appeal that, it's not fair"!
MIL got a ticket outside my house and said straight away she would appeal. I asked, on what grounds and was met by silence!! She paid.
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It's a modern disease. In the old days we obeyed laws, rules, regulation and the authorities and more importantly took responsibility for our own actions.
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Interesting it was a 'lad'......is it not usually the fairer sex that neglects oil, or is that suggestion unforgivably sexist?
My son was recently offered a lift back to university 150 miles away by a girl who had a new small Citroen. Being curious, I asked to see under the bonnet...dipstick dry after a mere 4,500 miles or so - tiny engine but took over a litre just to get to the minimum mark!
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dipstick dry after a mere 4,500 miles or so
"Stupid Car!!"
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Not sure how the Human Rights Act fits in with checking oil, and some of the other stuff on this thread??!!
I've been dealing with the 18-25 age group (students) for well over 20 years now. I don't think much has changed, we still see the same spectrum of attitudes, some diligent and some couldn't care less. There is more commercial pressure on kids now and a lot of pressure to drink from the drinks industry etc (nightclub reps standing around university all day handing our hundreds of flyers, trying to get the kids into the bars with free drinks and discounts etc). Youth has been commercialised like never before and TBH I feel a bit sorry for them. Half this country's problems could be cracked by government coming down hard on the brewers (perhaps make them pay a 'policing tax' on booze to cover the social costs of the 'industry') - but too many lobbyists for that to ever happen.
As regards checking things, I remember a mate of mine when I was a teenager. We both had motorbikes and one day his was making a rattle. I suggested stopping and taking a look, but he 'couldn't be bothered'. 10 mins later the engine stopped, flywheel had worked loose and was spinning free, keyway in crank wrecked etc. That was in the 1970's and that lad is now a senior mechanical engineer with a big multinational!
My own son will be taking his test soon. He's very keen on cars and knows how to check everything religiously (more so than a lot of older people I think!).
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My own son will be taking his test soon. He's very keen on cars and knows how to check everything religiously (more so than a lot of older people I think!).
Sounds to me like he may be having some guidance from a proper Dad, which seems to be missing in many cases.
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Sounds to me like he may be having some guidance from a proper Dad, which seems to be missing in many cases.
I think you've hit the nail on the head here with a lot of modern problems
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