No one has mentioned the Lancia Beta - great engine, fantastic road holding, "natural" air-conditioning (via the rust holes tat would increase in size the faster you went). Only the FSOs were worse for rust.... and afew Fiats..... and earlly Alfas - in fact, anything that came out of Italy or the Eastern Bloc!
But the Allegro was agreat car - roomy, comfy, just put together by a bunch of militant yobs who didn't care that their actions would sound the death knell for British motor manufacturing.
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Well I will start the case for the defence for the Ital then. My first car (obviously otherwise I wouldn't protest as much), it was a 1.7HL (get me) in champagne (anyone dare mention it was cream and I'll lamp them), it was the family car but when I turned 17 (finally), my dad got promoted and got his first company car, a 1988 Rover 216 vitesse (which I also lust after now), so I got 'given' the Ital (as in had to do all summer long chores). Loved it, still trawl ebay/autotrader for examples now when I want to just dream about a simplier life and dip out of the rat race. If I won the lottery...you bet i would buy one, to sit along side my 1990 216 vitesse (revised boot lid version) and a Griffith 500 or Caterham 7 (you can kept your shiny £60 + 911/DB9's). Understeer/oversteer, rust, clutch judder like you wouldn't believe pulling away in first when cold on the manual choke which had to be held out with the add of one of my mum's clothes peg - Little Mo as I called the car (oh good grief) had it all and I debadged it (oh to be young and daft again or at least young).
Sadly it only lasted 2 years (and that's after my old man paid out a shed load to get it past the MOT because being a petrol head I just had to have a car - yet more chores to do!!!), but the lasting impression - well you can guess - even got a Marina/Ital owners club mug at home and even SWMBO doesn't even dare to use it. Happy Days.....
Edited by MondeoMonkeyMagic on 18/07/2008 at 10:19
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Magdrop. Do you have any other strange activities you would like to share with us? ;)
I have this marvellous vision of your crawling into the undergrowth with a battery towards this rusting heap!
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I'm not too sure about the 1.4 Volvo 340. I had one for seven years it did over 200K miles, very reliable ~ 40mpg. Started and ran every day all days and never failed an MOT but it did get alot of tlc. The body work let it down and then I sold it for £400.00.
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Well I will start the case for the defence for the Ital then. My first car (obviously otherwise I wouldn't protest as much) it was a 1.7HL
Had one of those myself when I used to race stock cars (as the towcar!) - was fine and better than the Marina, though just as outdated...
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It wasn't great, but the worst of all time? I seriously doubt it. We had a bright yellow 1275 estate on about an S or T reg which was alright, apart from needing to be topped up with oil every time the tank was filled up. It used to guzzle the stuff.
The Princess was a brilliant car. Spacious, comfy, refined, ultra smooth riding and very pleasant inside if memory serves me correctly. We had several years of good reliability from a 1978 Princess 2 2000HL. I think the only problem was the thermoswitch failed on the rad fan, and we couldn't get the switch out of the rad. Rather than replacing the complete rad (which was otherwise good), Dad just wired in a manual fan switch on the dash. Other than that, it transported us all over the place and on several holidays without a murmur.
The Acclaim was a good car as well with a brilliant Honda engine.
Cheers
DP.
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I agree, I owned one for 3 years, and whilst it taught me all about car maintenance, on the whole it was pretty ok.
As mentioned, cars such as FSO Polonez are far worse.
Although the Princess was the only car I've ever been sick in.....
stu
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I really didn't want to get back into this but...
The BMC 1800 was a thoroughly good motor, with unrivalled interior room and the later versions with 14 or 15in wheels (can't recall which) were unbeatable on snow, in my experience. Only problem was, they were 1800s and slightly thirstier and a bit dearer to insure than yer Cortinas and Victors and the like which had 1500 or 1600 engines to suit fleet buyers (nothing new there then).
I had a Lancia Beta, an HPE, it was one of the best cars I have ever owned and when I foolishly sold it at 6 years old there wasn't a spot of rust on it anywhere. Yes, the saloon version did have a problem but holes didn't appear in the body (that was Alfas) - in fact the rust sometimes struck in an inaccessible area where the front subframe joined the body. Over-salted UK roads were as much to blame as anything. A couple of years ago I saw (underneath as well) an untouched 1978 Beta saloon that was just about the cleanest car I have ever seen.
While we're on the subject, the Ford Escort Mk-whatever of about 1990 was acknowledged by the trade as a total dog - and that was when it was brand new.
Maybe I've just lived too long - I don't have to take the word of the teenage scribblers as gospel, I was there...
PS: hope the cabbie didn't charge you too much extra, stu! ;-)
Edited by mike hannon on 18/07/2008 at 13:46
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I remember the allegro used to be called the 'all agro'. The windows supposedly popped out if you jacked it up in the wrong place.
There were far worse cars about - lancias that rusted at the first sign of rain. And what about the Skoda Estelle? It had a straight 4 hanging behind the rear axle, I seem to remember the AA calling for it to be banned.
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Early Lada 1200 was an agricultural rustbucket. Didn't even have vacuum advance device on the distributor. It had a vernier on the side instead so that you could tune it to varyingly appalling grades of fuel. It wouldn't keep its tune for three days and couldn't do better than 28mpg under any circumstances: 1200cc remember. What load of carp, apart from the heater which was very powerful.
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Further to my post above: the Lada 1200 would have been a far worse car than an Allegro when new and at any stage of life except when both cars were on their last legs. Then the Lada might have the advantage.
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>>It had a vernier on the side of the distributor
I'm sure many of us remember these on all cars. Great for adjusting the timing as the points heel wore. Just keep advancing it until it just pinked under extreme conditions.
And as for Chris S
>>And what about the Skoda Estelle? It had a straight 4 hanging behind the rear axle
What about doctor Ferdinand's offerings?
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All rear-engined cars, when properly engineered, are interesting and characterful by definition. But they are for drivers and people interested in cars, not car-using mutts who get their expertise from Whassername dahna pub.
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Just keep advancing it until it just pinked under extreme conditions.
Thanks for explaining that bt :o}. The problem with the Lada though was that you had to tweak the damn thing all the time. With the far more sophisticated Skoda you just did the timing with dwell meter and strobe, then fine tuned the idle screw, and there it was until next plugs-and-points change unless you noticed some symptom of slight maladjustment, in which case you might give it another tweak. But it was easy, it worked and it stayed like that. Lada? Ptui!
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>>And as for Chris S
>>And what about the Skoda Estelle? It had a straight 4 hanging behind the rear axle
>>What about doctor Ferdinand's offerings?
Good point - I think the Beetle must come pretty high in the stakes for the worst car of all time. Not only was it tail heavy but you couldn't see the corners for parking and it had a tiny amount of interior space for its external size.
The heaters filled the cabin with more exhaust fumes than heat and caused the hot air channels on either side of the cabin to rot. The spare wheel comparment at the front would collect water and rot too. The 'boot' was tiny because of the shape of the front chassis and the location of the petrol tank.
There was hardly any space in the engine compartment - it was a good thing that the engine was easy to take out because apart from the most basic repairs you had to.
The only reason that VW made them for so long was that the car was a copy of a pre-war Tatra model. The money that VW paid in compensation for breach of copyright meant that they didn't have any left over to develop new models.
If it wasn't for their south American sales (where the car was sold on price) it would have never achieved the sales figures that it did.
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>>The only reason that VW made them for so long was that the car was a copy of a pre-war Tatra model. The money that VW paid in compensation for breach of copyright meant that they didn't have any left over to develop new models.
Cobblers.
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>>>the Lada 1200 would have been a far worse car
It started life as the FIAT 124, car of the year 1966... disc brakes all round, lively engines.
Apart from the rust, it was a good car - 40 years ago.
When FIAT finished with the tooling it all went East, and got the treatment for their roads, fuel, and weather.
And a humungous tool kit, AFAIR.
Regarding vacuum advance - it's an economy thing, works when running on light throttle.
I'm not sure the 124 had it either (Italians using throttles in a digital manner - on or off).
Edited by Another John H on 18/07/2008 at 20:34
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Regarding vacuum advance - it's an economy thing works when running on light throttle. I'm not sure the 124 had it either (Italians using throttles in a digital manner - on or off).
It's quite inconceivable that a Fiat 124 would have lacked a vacuum advance. I don't imagine it had huge, heavy cast iron cam followers either. Perhaps I am idealising Italian engineering and design. But I really really doubt it.
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Lud, However inconceivable it might seem, the 124 did indeed have no vacuum advance. To verify this, I have just been on an expedition to the darkest depths of the stables at MD Manor where my 124 has been hiding for 30 years.
mapmaker, After your fairly accurate description of my expeditions to the Allegro in the undergrowth, that might set your imagination going again. You left out the rabbits and hedgehogs which dwell thereunder.
Amazingly my 124 is in reasonable condition and could easily be brought back to life. Would it then be unique? I would feel it necessary to have a large notice on it saying ?NO, IT?S NOT A LADA?. One reason why it has remained unused I suppose.
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However inconceivable it might seem the 124 did indeed have no vacuum advance. To verify this I have just been on an expedition to the darkest depths of the stables at MD Manor where my 124 has been hiding for 30 years.
Well I'm damned!
I don't suppose you could take a peep inside the cambox MD, and see what the followers look like?
:o}
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Lud. I was about to charge up my miner?s lamp and SatNav for another expedition into the gloom when I remembered I have a spare 124 cylinder head. I think by ?cam followers? you must mean ?rocker arms? as the former would be rather difficult to see and surely not made from cast iron. Having located the item the rockers are indeed made from cast steel, and not the pressed variety more usual these days. Actually they are not really heavy items and not much saving (apart from in the manufacturing process) would appear to be gained by using the pressed variety, even if there was room for them.
I never had a Lada so have no recollection of the engine used. I only bought the 124 because I couldn?t raise the extra £180 for what I really wanted - a Cortina 1600E. How time has altered our conception of past cars. I did get a 1600E, but that was in Hong Kong years later. Still fun to drive over the twisty parts but too badly affected by tinworm to be worth bringing ?home?.
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So was the Fiat 124 a pushrod engine MD? The Lada was a chain driven overhead camshaft. The cam came down on a pad in the middle of the follower, one end of which was supported on a ball post where the adjustment took place, with the nose on the other end pressing down on the valve stem. The valve springs were extremely stiff, perhaps because of the weight of these followers. I may be exaggerating but I think they weighed about a quarter of a pound each. If the car had been neglected the ball posts would wear flat. The followers were loosely located with a sort of hairpin spring. The parts were cheap, but what a carp design.
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- lancias that rusted at the first sign of rain. >>
Once put a Lancia on a wheel free ramp and raised it.
We had the two front doors open for some reason.
Neither would shut when we plonked it back on its wheels.
Structural integrity of a cereal packet.
Edited by ifithelps on 18/07/2008 at 19:24
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just put together by a bunch of militant yobs who didn't care that their actions would sound the death knell for British motor manufacturing.
I'm sure that we can say the same about the TR7, the 70s Rovers etc etc.
Beautiful, well designed cars which, had they given them to the Japanese or Germans to build, would have been world beaters.
I know a bloke who came to set up the Rover factory in Cape Town in the late 70s, and the tales he tells of 'use a bigger hammer' engineering from his time in the midlands are frightening!
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I'll admit to owning an Allegro once and although it used more oil than petrol wasn't too bad a car, very spacious inside and handled ok. May I remind anyone of the Fiat Strada...?
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When it and the Ford Capri came out at about the same time I remember going to the dealer presentations of both and thinking the Allegro would be the better seller...............
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I recall a road test showing the 1.8 Marina TC quicker to 60MPH than an MGB.
Same engine, lighter car. Pity about the rear suspension.
Did the motoring press present an ultimatum to BL at the press launch of the Marina to the effect of 'change the front suspension or we'll tell the public what it's really like'?
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1.8 Marina TC - yes the reps loved 'em.
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I'm gonna let ya'll into a secret that I've kept to myself for 35 years now ... I went to see the Morris Marina when it came out and I said to the salesman ... it looks a like a Jensen Interceptor from the rear, mind you - I used to smoke some herbal preparations in those days !!
The old Allegro was ok for the A - B merchant, I had loadsa customers who owned them in the 70's & 80's they were no worse really (IMHO) than the other offerings from B.L. at that time - they all lacked developement - I never fancied any of em, but I had a brace of V8 Rovers (P6) and a couple of XJ6's + the odd Dolomite Sprint in Sebring red with Webasto full length sunroof - wow !
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Just shows how fickle and subjective the so-called "public" really is. I suspect the massive anti-Allegro vote is purely on the basis of "I wouldn't want to be seen dead in 2008 in a ..." Voters are also (typically) lacking in the accuracy stakes too - the "Austin Princess" was a 1940s limousine, and how could the Morris 1800/"Austin Princess" possibly score differently from the Austin/Morris versions? It doesn't add up!
I remember reading one so-called "survey" where the Citroën DS appeared amongst the ten most ugly AND ten most beautful cars of all time. Go figure...
If some proper objective criteria were applied, and voters had to rate a dozen or more features, some rather different results would come out. The results here are vague, sketchy and as reliable as a Zimbabwean election. Trouble is, if votes were awarded strictly according to criteria such as (just off the top of my head) reliability, performance, overall sales/market share, economy, roominess, longevity, residual value, style, value for money, innovation, character, choices of colour, equipment level and va-va-voom factor - and remembering that only the first seven of these criteria can actually be measured impartially - then we end up with the Toyota Corolla in first place and miscellaneous Japanese and Korean models filling the rest.
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You're spot on B but it seems we have a dilemma. This thread has slagged off the analytical capability of the average motoring correspondent, and let's record right now that there are honourable exceptions, and then proceeded to demonstrate that Joe Public doesn't know one asspect of his anatomy from another when it comes to analysing cars. So who do we turn to? HJ can't do it all on his own.
JH
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At the time, most UK motors had common parts, most notably Lucas electrics. If anything went wrong, it was probably electrical. I reckon the mechanicals were all about the same, and as long as basic services were carried out no one manufacturer was any worse than another. Head gasket problems were common across the range, although some engines were less sympathetic to lack of basic checks than others (see Hillman Imp).
Japanese imports were far more tolerant of mistreatment, and as a consequence built a reputation for being more reliable. Parts, however were prohibitively expensive, so many of us learnt to take care of our motors.
I had no more problems with my old BL and Ford cars than I've had with current new motors, although for some strange reason I've never owned a Vauxhall despite living in Luton for many years.
I once tried to buy a new Chevette when they first came out, but the salesman made it so difficult, I abandoned the attempt. I've looked at many Vauxhalls when buying secondhand cars, but always found the alternatives to be better value.
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My neighbour restores old cars & has a Rover 2000 in that sort of pale green colour, it is absolutely immaculate & what I would consider a *REAL* car ... its looks like a real car, smells like a real car, sounds like a real car and goes like a real car + of course it was made in blighty ... I was looking at a Focus (mrk 1)as I was coming back from my early morning jaunt with mutley and I thought how they all look the same these days - no character whatsoever.
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"This thread has slagged off the analytical capability of the average motoring correspondent, "
The above statement is grossly misleading and as bad as the average motoring journalist :-)
The average motoring correspondent regurgitates manufacturers' press releases like a cat regurgitates fur balls. The analytical content is zero.
Of course HJ is not average... for a start he writes about cars he has actually driven: which I suspect is more than half the writers of road tests have never done:-)
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So to sumarize matters, Backroomer's opinion is that the Allegro is NOT the worst car of all time... which seems to be heading swiftly towards the Lada 1200....
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Whilst this thread has been interesting & a tad entertaining at times, I believe the article mentioned by the op referred to the worst BRITISH cars of all time so I suppose,yes - with its Hydrospastic suspension and a square (ish) steering wheel, its got to come somewhere near the Top of The Flops ... I know there were other British cars just as damned un-reliable such as the SD1, but I'd still rather drive one than an Allegro.
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Just dipping into this thread, but when Austin aquared off the steering wheel it's a bad idea - when Audi do a similar thing on the R8, it's sporty.
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As a ex Brummie I had mates who worked at Longbridge and one day I had a knock on door and mate who worked there arrived in one of pre production Allegro's with square wheel - at that time we didn't realise it was a going to turn out a dud - Years later when I married- the father in law also worked at Longbridge and had two of worst cars I have ever driven - a Maxi and Ital - fast forward to 1991 and SWMBO was driving to work when a car in line coming toward her veared out of line and hit her head on - the rescuers were able to open her drivers door on little Mazda 323 hatch (she had bruising) but the other driver was trapped by his feet which along with the pedal's were under front seat - What was he driving - a rust bucket Allegro - so to me that car is pit's of all cars -- was pleased to hear he never walked right again.
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the worst BRITISH cars of all time soI suppose yes - with its Hydrospastic suspension and a square (ish) steering wheel its got to come somewhere near the Top of The Flops ...
I don't quite follow that - the suspension made it one of the best riding, and none of the ones I knew ever had any probs with it, the steering wheel was quickly replaced and, for its time, it was way ahead of the oposition, more roomy and comfortable and no more or less reliable than the other british cars of the time - Viva/Dolomite/Toledo/Escort all of which could trace their roots back to the cart.... and they all fell appart - to quote the modern day car salesman "They all come like that, Sir!"
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And to be fair to the Lada; it was a limosine compared to a Moskvitch....
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>>> And to be fair to the Lada; it was a limosine compared to a Moskvitch <<<
Or - a Wartburg Knight !!!
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>>two of worst cars I have ever driven - a Maxi and an Ital
I protest! Again!
I found the Maxi to be the most comfortable car I've ever driven. It felt like you were sitting on a bar stool with a horizontal steering wheel, but I could get out after several hours without a twinge. Something that's never happened before or since.
It was capacious enough for my growing family.
It damn near won outright an autotest (second to a Mexico)'
It got a class win at a production car trial.
It came first on an economy run (98MPG - don't ask!).
You got used to coasting round corners in neutral, having failed to find second. ;>)
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Oh, no, I have to dip in again...
Have you ever owned or driven a Wartburg Knight, Dog?
I have.
It wasn't a bad machine for its day at all, but suffered from small design faults that - under any other regime - would have been put right more quickly. Probably.
The 2-stroke engine was smooth, rorty and not particularly thirsty. The necessary freewheel in the transmission made driving interesting too.
As I said above, maybe I have just been around too long.
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I was a mobile car tuner from 78 til 93 so I worked on all cars at that time Mike H.
and I used to road test the car after I'd tuned it .... The good thing about the Wartburg was that being a 900cc 3 cyl 2 stroke, it was practically un-burstable and it would circumnavigate the globe b4 it required a service but it would belch out a cloud of blue smoke, handle like a cow on ice (especially in the wet) although it was an improvement on the Trabant !
The Austin Maxi was a good car (for its day) anyone here ever owned a Wolseley 18/85 ... *NOW* we're talking cars !!!
In the final analysis, if it suits you then its ok really - we can't all be the same - it comes down to personal choice ... one of my neighbours has the Franchise for Perodua - we'll say no more : )
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My vote goes to the Ford Consul Classic with the 1340cc engine! (1961-1963)
Ugly beast of a thing which could be heard coming a mile away by the clanking and rattling of its woefully underpowered engine which was characterised by little and big end clatter at very few miles.
I was in the motor trade in 1964 (remember Car Mart, then then Austin Distributors for London? That's who I worked for).
All the salesmen, me included, would hide if we found one of these entering the customer parking, as we knew it would be a dog, hugely overvalued by its sad owner!
Not a British car - but who remembers the appalling rear engine and unstable Renault Dauphine? Run in huge numbers by a mini cab firm, (Welbeck, IIRC), in London and driven by desperately incompetent cheap labour; it was no surprise that many of them were wrecked in short order!
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Where was carmart malteser - I used to 'tune' all s.e. london and a huge part of east as well ... I wouldn't mind a Consul Classic m8 as it would be worth a few bob now - the shape was straight out of Amerika with those tail fins ...
I used to regularly tune a Dauphine 2 door coupe for a lad.edited following a complaint
It looked ok as cars go but yeah, it was nuffink to write home about ... I got to drive most cars in those days inc. rollers, Jensen, Bentley, hillman imp most of em are just looks really - gimme a 5 series beemer anyday (p.s. I drive an Almera : )
Edited by Pugugly on 20/07/2008 at 16:44
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51 plate renalt laguna owned by my brother
literally spent half its lfe in the dealers - it wasnt a consistent fault, it suffered from a variety of problems.
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Back in the late 60s early 70s I set up a self drive company (finished up with 100 cars and 200 vans) and tried to put a few miles on as many new cars as I could before putting them out on hire - had a new car every few days - all nice when new - but when I'd had enough of this, my choice as a company car was the Morris 1800 then the Wolseley 2200 then the Granada (more flash and put the power down better but not as nice in an odd sort of way or as comfortable)
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'Sup, y'all.
Worst car?!? Ha ha ha...see my previous posts about the Eagle Premier, there's a strong candidate for you. What a piece of junk. Another real dog would be the Chevrolet Citation, any model year. That'un was just an embarrassment.
Edited by Pebble on 21/07/2008 at 01:33
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Wasn't the Chevy Citation an americanised version of our Vauxhall Cavalier Mk2? That was well rated over here. Just shows that some things don't travel/translate as well as the marketeers would hope.
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Wasn't the Chevy Citation an americanised version of our Vauxhall Cavalier Mk2? That was well rated over here. Just shows that some things don't travel/translate as well as the marketeers would hope.
I think the Citation was on an older platform than the Mk2 cavalier; assuming Wikipedia is correct the Citation was based on the GM 'X' platform, whereas I'm fairly sure the UK Cavalier mk2 was the GM 'J' platform.
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Yes, that sounds right--I think the Citation was the X platform. Came out in '78 or so, alongside the equally horrific fastback Buick and Olds mid-size sedans--all were ugly, underpowered and had a heaping helping of GM Cheap to them, for example there were no rear window cranks on the fastback sedans. A real GM low point.
Someone here in my area, some young kid, has a Citation coupe that he's tuned and tricked out--he revs that thing like he was Mario Andretti. Talk about making a silk purse from a sow's ear.
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I know my knowledge of American motoring only goes as far as the Dukes of Hazzard, but isn't a Citation a speeding ticket?
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I had an Allegro 1500 estate car for a few years. While the Allegro was certainly not among the best of family cars, I don't think it was the worst either. It got off to a bad start because someone at BL thought the public would like the 'clever' quartic steering wheel, shaped like a squared-off circle. But that was dropped before long - and anyway, the contemporary Ford Cortina Mk3 had an oval steering wheel!
The Allegro styling was designed for a larger car project that was dropped and so it was squashed and made more dumpy to fit the Allegro.
The latest Honda Civic reminds me a bit of the Allegro shape from some angles, although it doesn't really look that similar. And the BMW 1 series looks a bit like my old Allegro estate car!!
Edited by Sofa Spud on 21/07/2008 at 19:46
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In 1970 I had a Vauxhall Viva as a company car. We gave it a nickname. "Heap".
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Funny old survey that one.
The point seemed to be that the cars highlighted are supposedly the worst British cars (built and owned), and that seems to be borne out by the fact that there are no Ford or Vauxhall heaps on there (American not British).
So why are the Chrysler cars there then? They were no more "British" than the Viva or Escort. Neither of them were all that bad either -- the Sunbeam was a decent enough car and the Imp was merely flawed, not terrible.
Vauxhall made some horrendous old rustheaps in the 60s (thinking Victor here) and yet no-one ever mentions them in these surveys.
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"Vauxhall made some horrendous old rustheaps in the 60s (thinking Victor here) and yet no-one ever mentions them in these surveys."
Perhaps because rust aside they were reasonably good cars to drive & own before they disintegrated and weren't based upon the underpinnings of a model from the previous generation?
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Yes, the Victor mark 2 was a good car: the result of Vauxhall finally ditching the odd transatlatic influence in their styling which had held back sales.
At school in the early 60s I can remember that 3 or 4 of the masters had Victor estates: more compact than an Austin Cambridge / Morris Oxford estate and cheaper than the coachbuilt Abbott conversions that were all that Ford had to offer until the Cortina estate came along.
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Perhaps because rust aside they were reasonably good cars to drive & own before they disintegrated and weren't based upon the underpinnings of a model from the previous generation?
Or perhaps (and more likely) because it isn't in fashion to knock Vauxhalls at the moment due to the fact that half the idiots who contribute to these worst car surveys drive Vauxhalls (or Fords)?
They were just your typical uninspired, technically backward, underdeveloped British car of the era. And seeing as that seems to be the main criticism levelled at the BL cars of the period, I stand by the fashion comment.
Edited by jase1 on 22/07/2008 at 02:26
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jase1 - are you an "idiot" for contributing to the survey or for driving a Vauxhall or Ford?
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jase1 - are you an "idiot" for contributing to the survey or for driving a Vauxhall or Ford?
Touchy -- thanks for making my point for me.
I've owned Fords and Vauxhalls. Nothing much wrong with them.
But the Fords and Vauxhalls of the 60s and 70s were no better than the BL cars that are so derided. Indeed it could be said that at least BL made an effort -- some of their cars were interesting despite being evolutionary dead-ends. Vauxhall? Ditchwater. Every bit as dull as a 70s Japanese import, just as rust-prone, not as reliable and more expensive. Oh but, yes, they did have watered-down American styling.
It was only when the engineering of these cars was shipped over to Germany that Vauxhall started to recover.
Yes, I've owned 70s Vauxhalls and yes, without exception I've felt an idiot for buying one afterwards. They weren't appalling, just a long way from being any good -- exactly the same as a BL car really.
You'll agree that the people (i.e. some sections of the motoring press) who constantly put out the same old chuff about the Allegro being the worst car of all time are idiots, I'm sure. Well half of them will be driving Fords and Vauxhalls -- because half of everyone pretty much drives them. Hence they aren't going to question the heritage of their cars, and neither will most readers -- far easier to single out a long-lost relic.
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jase1 - No touchiness here it's all tongue in cheek. By chance I was reading this article on rusty 60's Vauxhall restorations and the author spookily mentions Allegros & Itals! tinyurl.com/6yud4k It certainly proves your point about rust!
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I've had a lot of rustheaps over the years!! ;) Nissans, Vauxhalls, a Talbot....
My dad had a number of Vivas and Victors in the 70s (and Fiats and Talbots). All were horrendously rusty, hence the comments.
I'll never forget that Viva that was comprehensively shot at 7 years old. My dad was always scoffing at the 120Ys and Colts the next door neighbour always seemed to have -- but they never ever went wrong and they were so cheap that the guy used to get rid before the rot really set in.
There is no such thing as a "bad" car in 2008. I get the impression there was no such thing as a "good" car in 1978!! Cars never used to start in cold weather, they rotted away to powder after about 8 years and the slapdash interiors mentioned in that entertaining website were common to just about everything (German imports excepted).
Even a Proton would have been considered a work of art back then.
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I know my knowledge of American motoring only goes as far as the Dukes of Hazzard but isn't a Citation a speeding ticket?
In the immortal words of Ed McMahon, "You are correct, sir."
So don't tear around the 405 at 70 mph, 'cuz CHP'll pull you over and give you a Citation.
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