He isn't dealing with it because he is a fool. He just messes up everything he touches - or so it seems. The car belonged to my mother in law- who sadly died last year. After we sorted everything out he transfered the car into his own name so he could still drive a bit. he barely uses the car and prefers the get the bus but this particular occasion didnt. DUH.
Because we were told by him all it had was a flat tyre we went to change it and bring it home. Its not though, its totally wrecked and un-drivable. Hes got to take himself to court next week though, there is no way im going there.
The plan to leave it outside his house is certainly a good one, however we live 10 doors down (they moved when she was ill) so i dont really want everyone looking at that ;-(
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He may also find that he gets a bill from the local authority if he caused any damage to the roundabout. Usually his insurers would deal with this but.......
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hhm, i was thinking about that, its scratched the bricks and the roundabout is right near the house, i think the underside of the car dragged over it and the alloy- where the tyre has shreaded has gouged a big mark in it.
He deserves it, the trouble is he has plenty of savings and is one of these people a ban and a fine really isnt going to have any effect on.
Im having trouble dealing with it to be honest. He is a serious pain in my butt. But like they say, you cant choose your family!!!
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>>Look on Autotrader to see what it's worth...
No. Look on Autotrader to see what vendors of similar vehicles would like to THINK that it is worth. If you want to know what it's really worth, look on completed listings on eBay - there you see ACTUAL prices people pay. I'd guess (I'm no expert) it might only be worth £1.5 to £2k. Remember there is a credit crunch on and the bottom has fallen out of the used car market.
Personally I'd put it on eBay as it is. You might get £1,000 for it - provided it hasn't been written off by the insurance co.
As for the drink driving issue (which I know is not in point), a nil limit would be very foolish; some people take absolutely ages to metabolise that last bit of alcohol.
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You are right it would be foolish, sorry guys, i guess im a little too close to this one. Id just hate it if he'd hurt someone. it doesnt bear thinking about and i cant get it out of my head.
I did think about making him pay to repair it and then list it on ebay for 99p. I think that would hit him twice, but like i said, money doesnt mean enough to him.
i will investigate what ins company think. He's going to have to ring them tonight, which will make him squirm some more. I personally couldnt bear the embarrasment.
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Hi Bear99,
Sad to hear that this is causing you grief. Go to www.vauxhall.co.uk and click on the owners section tab, then look at the bottom and there is an option to value your father in law's car, hopefully it should be self explanatory from there, but if not, reply back. Hope everything works out well with the minimum amount of frustration.
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I agree with Mapmaker, stick it on ebay as is. Someone may buy it to break up or repair. I'd guess the quote from Vauxhall is a little over inflated, main dealers always are. Someone with the right know how could repair for a lot less and may be tempted by it.
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The insurance will probably pay out to third parties and that's it.
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Mondeomonkeymagic- thank you for that, he is really driving me nuts! will try vaux owners club, that is a good idea!
I guess I may as well list it on ebay and see what happens, the engine at least must be worth a fair bit i guess, and all the other bits and bobs. The guy in vaux garage did say he knew someone who could take it off my hands for breaking up so i think i will also find out how much it would get also. Im patiently waiting for their final quote to come so we'll see how bad it really is then.
Im not so bothered about him getting the money i just cant stand to see the car vanish with not a penny to show for it i guess.
Thanks for all your advice everyone, its nice to get a few ideas about what to do.
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MMM, Did what you said-nice tip!!
The car "was" worth £3670. Thats for excellent condition, which it was. Its only done 26,000 miles. Oh well, it might fetch £3.60 now!
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hmmmm
price is a guide only - that is to what a main dealer would give in px against a new one.
ebay sold items is a better idea of real prices - especially since the vauxhall online guide may lag reality - which is a crash in used prices at the moment.
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>>Look on Autotrader to see what it's worth... No. Look on Autotrader to see what vendors of similar vehicles would like to THINK that it is worth.
I had to claim a few years ago. Prices from Autotrader were mentioned. I got a very reasonable sum.
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Not really much to add to the good, practical advice offered already - but I am beginning to feel a bit sorry for the FiL. From the story so far the poor chap lost his wife fairly recently - this can make people a bit wobbly for a while & maybe not always do the most sensible thing -- like using the car when they normally take the bus for a night out or a drink.
Being on your own after (what sounds like) a lengthy marriage must be difficult - especially when you're in your 70s & maybe coping with lots of new (domesticky type) things for the first time.
From the description of his fairly disengaged sounding attitude he may well be a bit depressed & grieving still - not everyone wails & weeps - some just retreat, become listless & adopt a rather not-bothered-anymore persona.
All the above supposition of course - I can't know much from scant details posted on a motoring site - but maybe it would be wise to consider not just the physical car damage.
Edited by woodbines on 16/07/2008 at 18:33
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Very kind and thoughtful post woodbines. One can only agree.
No doubt the OP and his FiL have some history of mutual incomprehension - it's not unusual - and perhaps due allowance isn't being made here for that, as well as the FiL's problems. It's easy to fall gradually over many years of unresolved irritation into a heartless or unkind posture, without really realising it and without being a heartless or unkind person. But crises in other people's lives require one to make a special effort.
The other thing is that the car may well be repairable. If it's as good as all that it may be worth spending a few quid.
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The whole point of what bear99 was saying was - I think - that the FiL wanted her to sort it all out for him. I have the same experience with an older relative who thought that anything awkward or too embarrassing (but his own fault) could be left for others to sort out.
The fact is a beautiful car (in your eyes) worth £3500 that sustains £3500 worth of damage is worth zero, or scrap.
He will definitely be stung for the roundabout, I believe his insurer will have to pay for that. Whether the insurer then sues him afterwards, I don't know.
Advice to bear99 - grit your teeth, stand your ground, and don't do anything for him. NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
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Yes, I thought you would have concurred Lud.
Without wanting to read to much into a 'simple' request for practical advice on a car issue, very often events happen & can point to a deeper cause. There could be, for example, a medical issue of some kind that needs addressing - many conditions of a progressive nature can & do start innocuously enough (not that having a big bump is minor, but you get my drift..) with 'out of character' or erratic behaviour. Not saying there is, but from my own experiences, it would get the antenna twitching.
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But if bananastand is right I have mistaken the OP's gender. No offence to her of course, a mistake, but everything else I said holds good unless I am also misled in some other major way.
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"it would get the antenna twitching."
And mine woodbines, (as a retired Mental Health Social Worker)
Your post really is spot on by the way.
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Although I never drive if I've been drinking alcohol, I think a zero alcohol limit is impractical because of people having residual traces of alcohol from modest consumption many hours previously.
The mandatory disqualification limit should remain as it is now. But we should have a further, lower threshold at half the current alcohol level where the offender gets 6 penalty points and a fine. Why? Because currently someone who is fractionally under the current limit has committed no offence, while if they are fractionally over they gat banned. It's too all-or-nothing.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 16/07/2008 at 23:37
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currently someone who is fractionally under the current limit has committed no offence while if they are fractionally over they gat banned. It's too all-or-nothing.
Correct, that's why it's a limit. Just like a speed limit.
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Two thoughts:
1. If the car may be subject of an insurance settlement, its not yours to dispose of. If the insurer writes it off and pays out a settlement, they then own the wreck and are entitled to whatever salvage value it has.
2. If you're not out of pocket after this incident (and I hope you're not), don't get involved. Leave it to the man who caused the problem to fix it.
PS: I appreciate and agree with the anti drink-driving sentiment expressed above, but there's a good legal reason NOT to have a zero limit for blood alcohol. As analytical methods improve over time, the level of alcohol that we will be able to detect in blood, urine or breath will fall. Legally, a "zero" limit would mean that, even if you could detect on part per billion (feasible in many laboratory tests for many compounds) alcohol, the subject would still be over the limit.
However, the chances of ever overturning the zero limit law were such a test to be developed would be minimal. Imagine the outraged cries there'd be in the press: "XYZ government plans to legalise booze driving!" etc.
Exactly this situation existed until 1996 with Food and Drug Administration in the US, thanks to legislation known as the Delaney Amendment. Back in the 1950s, a zero limit was proscribed for carcinogenic compounds in food additives. In 1958, the limit of detection was hundreds of parts per million, enough to be harmful. By 1996, the limit was approaching parts per trillion, far below the level to cause harm, but the law stood.
Now, processed food is one thing, but the prospect of a criminal prosecution because someone failed an alcohol test based on a drink they had days ago would be another!
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there's a good legal reason NOT to have a zero limit for blood alcohol. As analytical methods improve over time
There's also another very good reason - which is that the current limit is OK.
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Woodbines and Lud,
Thanks for your comments. I have chilled slighty from a few days ago and can see things more in perspective i guess!
He lost his wife in jan07. i guess after being married for 43 years grieving this long is to be expected. I dont mind that, the trouble is he drinks too much. Basically an alchoholic or certainly close to it. He just seems to do really stupid stuff and thinks because he lost his wife it makes it ok for him to act like a jerk.
Recently though he has been really good and we've all done stuff together as a family and hes been getting on well, me and my husband go away for the weekend and he ends up doing that!!
I have really tried to help him, i think he should see a professional about his problems to be honest but he thinks hes ok. Its obvious he isnt but short of frog marching him to a clinic or some sort i dont feel i can do much. we include him and have him over for dinner alot but he just doesnt get any better. My husband gets quite frustrated as well and that doesnt really help either. There is no other family on their side to help spread the load unfortunatly and with him 10 doors down is sometimes like living in a goldfish bowl!
He couldnt care less about the ban or the money or anything at all really so its not as if hes really getting a wake up call to change his ways. Oh well, i will post back when we see what is going to happen with the car. no news yet.
Thanks for all your comments- i hope im not going to get told off for making off topic comments on here, but ive had some nice replies and thought id better give a bit more detail. I also hope you dont think i am a cow of a daughter-in-law. I try my best not to be!! Im generally quite nice!!! ;-)
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Bear99, if you want any advice or support feel free to drop me an email. The address is in my profile...
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You are obviously a very nice person, bear. I hope you didn't feel criticized by ignorant outsiders here.
Even one's nearest and dearest can sometimes send one up the wall, and it often seems impossible to make them see sense. Especially when they are old geezers who may be afraid they are losing it definitively, and who anyway have their pride, and their way of carrying on.
I wish you the best, and yr FiL. Perhaps he will revert to being as good as gold when the present kerfuffle has died down.
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A further thought for bear, if it doesn't seem too intrusive. Heavy drinking following a bereavement, in those so inclined, can take root and get a dynamic of its own. I have some slight personal experience of this. Trouble is, I am not an expert on the management of drinking habits, not even my own to tell the truth, so can't really say what is the best approach. Probably it varies enormously from one case to another, humans being so deplorably complex.
Heavy drinkers don't get hangovers like normal human beings, but they tend to be in a sort of permanent hangover, depressed, irritable and not averse to a bit of further self-harm. However they will not be unaware that on days after they have drunk more moderately than usual, they will feel a bit better than usual. One possibility, if it can be managed without causing controversy, is to alter the habits slightly in an experimental way - try drinking less of something stronger, or substitute fine wine for several pints of wallop. It is sometimes possible to conduct a discreet holding operation in these matters. But only you will know what might work, whether anything is possible, and how to go about it.
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Thank you Lud, you are also very nice and very honest! im quite glad I posted on here, I have had some good advice, if also some funny comments. I didnt expect as many nice comments as this though!
It does sure feel good to let some stress out though!!
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There's also another very good reason - which is that the current limit is OK.>>
Always room for improvement......it should be virtually zero for 21 and under [in the US you can't even buy alcohol and walk home under 21...] and for the over 70s it should be half what it is now, till 80+ when it should be virtually zero.
A lovely kind post from Woodbine - always worth hearing the other side of a story...
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>> currently someone who is fractionally under the current limit >> has committed no offence while if they are fractionally over they gat banned. It's too >> all-or-nothing. Correct that's why it's a limit. Just like a speed limit.
Except that, unlike a speed limit, judging whether I am under the drink-drive alcohol limit relies on an amount of guesswork. With the best will in the world, I may know I've drunk alcohol earlier in the day (or he previous evening) but feel fine and believe I'm OK (based on number of units and time elapsed), yet actually be over the limit. The same can not be said of the speed limit.
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With the best will in the world I may know I've drunk alcohol earlier in the day (or he previous evening) but feel fine and believe I'm OK (based on number of units and time elapsed) yet actually be over the limit.
If you like to sail close to the wind, then I suggest that you buy one of the devices available to measure a breath sample, about £30 to £200.
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