The BMW is a CONSIDERABLY better car. What you should do is keep it and spend the £4k difference in price on fuel for it and the extra tax, which will keep you going for years.
I'm having difficulty deciding whether its worth upgrading my 530i Sport for something like newer E92 Coupe, let alone a nasty diesel Audi estate!
And dont think of the 530d either unless you do 25k. We've got one of those as well and the 530i... is just better. And barely any more expensive to run, especially on the Motorway where at 70mph the 530i does 38mpg, the 530d does 45mpg, but the fuel for the 530i is some 15p a litre cheaper..
Edited by MichaelR on 14/07/2008 at 12:05
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Wish I'd bought a 530i then! I would struggle to get 20 mpg out of one of those.
4K will NOT buy loads of fuel these days I'm afraid thats just fantasy even at average mileage. When you buy a car, you have to project forward to how long you will keep it and divide the extra fuel expense/savings over that period.
I'd get a 1 year old high-spec diesel from the Major non-premium manufacturers - you get two years warranty and you're not paying for the name - which is all you get with an older Audi.
Boils down to wether you want to burn 4k in fuel to drive an older car or put it towards a new car.
Times move on in the car industry, you might find a newer bread and butter car is comparable to an older 5 series.
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4K will NOT buy loads of fuel these days I'm afraid thats just fantasy even at average mileage.
It will get you 25,000 Motorway miles in a 530i. More importantly, looking at the difference between it and an A4 TDI, you'd need to do well over 60,000 miles in the A4 TDI before the £4k saving had been expended on fuel you'd otherwise not have needed to buy had you had the diesel.
Thats 'loads of fuel'
I'd get a 1 year old high-spec diesel from the Major non-premium manufacturers
And the put up with inferior build quality and shoddy plastics?
Times move on in the car industry you might find a newer bread and butter car is comparable to an older 5 series.
I'd wager you won't. I've driven many current model cars and not one has come close to being the sort of package of quality and refinement offered by the E39. Not one.
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Keep the BMW.
Simple - no brainer unless you do starship miles each year, which presumably you don't given the miles on the BMW now.
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Dont do it!
BMW is a much better car - especially against an old high mileage A4 1.9 tdi!
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Shame it is not a Touring otherwise I would make you a serious offer for it!
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I have had a 530d touring (X '00) since it was a year old. In 2004 I bought the wife a 1996 P reg A4 1.9tdi (110bhp) which we had to sell in 2006 as the family grew. Sold it to a family member so see it quite often and I still can't get over having sold it as it was the best car that I had bought and far better than my 530d (albeit not in the engine department). I wonder if I would think the same if I had kept the A4 and sold the BMW?
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In what way is the 96 A4 'far better' than your 5 Series?
I can't think of a single thing bar perhaps fuel economy. The 5 Series is better screwed together, offers better performance, better comfort, handles better, has higher equipment levels and is just.. errr, better.
It wasn't Executive Car of the Year every year for 7 years on the trot becuase it wasn't quite as good as an old diesel from the class below.
I suspect you've had one or two expensive failiures on the 530d which having sold the A4 after just 2 years of ownership you didnt experience on the A4. This has therefore clouded your judgement. In reality, neither car is noticeably more reliable.
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Don't do it!
The only good reason I can think of to switch to the A4 is if you're doing loads of miles and can't afford the fuel.
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snipquote!I'd wager you won't. I've driven many current model cars and not one has come close to being the sort of package of quality and refinement offered by the E39. Not one.
Well they cant be bothered to put the wipers on the right way round for RHD so it cant be that thoroughly engineered can it?
Just that the OP said he was considering a 10K overall deal. He wants diesel.
I wouldnt recommend putting 10K into a 5 year old Audi.
Yes, he could keep the 530i and keep juicing it up but lets be honest - you'd have to drive like a Vicar to get 38 mpg and who wants to drive like that in a car like that - pointless. The 530i is a 7 year old high VED car. The only way its residual is going is down - probably as fast as newer less prestige brand because MOST people, and lets face it, will look at it (and no disrespect) see it as an old car with none of the prestige left because of its age.
Corrosion and wear and aging of rubber seals etc etc is no repecter of brand.
Keep a 7 year old exec and expect to keep paying out to keep it on the road.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 14/07/2008 at 19:50
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But the ageing of them is part of the charm David, my MB is 12 now and its in better condition than most 2 or 3 year old cars i see.
Yes it takes some work to keep them like that, and there will be things that go wrong, but as they get older they become increasingly rare, especially in the condition I expect the OP's car is in as its done IIRC less than 60K.
My car isn't a clone of everyone else's around, and i like that.
I get pleasure from driving something every day that still looks so pretty and unique, and i'm proud of the way i keep it.
Sometimes these things are not choices from the head but from the heart.
I'm sure i can feel that in the OP's posting too, the way he talks albeit briefly about his car.
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I pay £438 a month just for the repayments on my Accord. For that I am pretty sure you could not only repair, but also fuel and possibly insure the older BMW. Depends on whether you want to have dependability of a newer car (although that can be a myth, as I have proven).
Edited by Gordon M on 14/07/2008 at 19:11
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Yes he could keep the 530i and keep juicing it up but lets be honest - you'd have to drive like a Vicar to get 38 mpg and who wants to drive like that in a car like that - pointless.
You sit on the Motorway with the cruise set to the legal speed limit - 70mph. Thats all thats required. The long distance economy is excellent for a car of its size and type.
The 530i is a 7 year old high VED car.
So what? Oh no, 430 quid a year. Whatever are we to do?
MOST people and lets face it will look at it (and no disrespect) see it as an old car with none of the prestige left because of its age.
I dont know about you but I buy cars becuase I like them not becuase of what others will think of them. And I see a 10k 'mainstream car' as a sort of kitchen appliance type purchase. Well, that or assume it must be another Enterprise hirecar....
Corrosion and wear and aging of rubber seals etc etc is no repecter of brand.
Mine is 6 years old now and the only hint of corrision, a tiny bit on the sideskirt, was immediatly fixed free of charge by BMW. I bet mine is in better condition than the average 2 year old car and thats despite its mileage currently reading a number which I'm sure would give you a hernia.
Keep a 7 year old exec and expect to keep paying out to keep it on the road.
As opposed to what, paying for finance repayments on a brand new Astra? I'll keep paying out to keep my 5 Series on the road rather than driving around in something with all the excitement and ability of a Moulinex mixer.
I'd rather pay to maintain an excellent car than lease a mediocre one.
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I certainly think the 530i is a fine car - I'm not denying that, but coming back to the op,
he has 1 10K budget, he's looking at an automatic diesel estate. How on earth can ne be better off keeping the BMW?
I mentioned nearly new cars as way of cutting down his potential for big bills and everyday relliability and economy not wether a diesel vectra estate displays the balance of a rwd BMW at the razors edge of a handling envelope!!! or is as hushly quiet.
You can get an auto diesel Vectra estate quite easily for 10K. Wont get wardrobe in a 5 series saloon or ease a dodgy leg will you? (reason for auto)
No point in comparing apples and pears.
Now if he'd said swapping it for a 12 year old 3 3 grand LS400. Now your talking.
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he has 1 10K budget he's looking at an automatic diesel estate. How on earth can ne be better off keeping the BMW?
Well he obviously doesn't need the estate for practacility reasons or he'd not have the choice of umming and aaahing over the move. If he keeps the BMW he wont have to spend £4k to buy the Audi, instead he'll have £4k spare to pay for additional fuel the BMW will use over and above that of the Audi. I estimate thats AT LEAST 60k miles worth, probably more.
The Audi certainly wont be any more reliable, cheaper to service nor cheaper to fix so maintenance costs will remain largely unchanged, therefore the entire 'saving' through not bothering could be used to offset the higher fuel and VED charges associated with owning the 5 Series.
You can get an auto diesel Vectra estate quite easily for 10K. Wont get wardrobe in a 5 series saloon or ease a dodgy leg will you? (reason for auto)
I don't get the impression he moves a lot of wardrobes, and his 530i is almost certainly an automatic as 90% of 530i Sport's on the roads are automatic. Trust me, it took me 6 months to find my manual as a result.
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Possibly of only indirect interest to the OP but, Michael, how much better in mpg terms do you think your manual 530i is than an automatic? 38 mpg is very impressive for a 3.0 petrol engine, and as you clearly enjoy your car I would imagine you use the performance and drive it as it's meant to be driven.
Something I forgot to say in my earlier post is that anyone thinking of combining 4 cylinders, diesel and automatic needs to make sure they can put up with the droning noise that that combination makes. I found I couldn't, and as I still need a diesel (20,000 miles a year) I went back to a manual, with fewer regrets than I expected.
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The manual is about 20-30% more economical than the auto - the auto really does hamper fuel economy.
Mine will return about 31mpg on a proper trip which isn't primarily Motorway (Plymouth - Southampton of which just 6 miles is on a Motorway and there are many hills/single carriageway A roads) and thats with me enjoying its performance, overtaking where neccesary and suchlike.
However my opinion on Motorway journeys is that silly speeds are expensive, stressful and might get you nicked so I set the climate, engage the cruise, put on a decent CD and do the speed limit - you don't need to keep speeding up and slowing down as people pull out on you etc etc and it's a far more relaxing and less stressful way of dealing with, lets face it, one of the more boring methods of motoring. It's doing this that you'll yield high 30's mpg.
Normal motorway driving without sticking rigidly to the speed limit, not that I've ever done such a thing officer, yields mid 30's instead.
The flipside unfortunately is that around town it's far from economical. Doing my regular 5 mile trips from cold yields about 22mpg at the most. But then the very nature of such trips is such that you don't rack up thousands and thousands of miles a year driving in this way and therefore 22mpg is far less 'expensive' to run than you'd think. When you DO do longer trips, the engine is properly warmed up, far more efficient, and capable of delivering the figures I've mentioned above.
Incidently mine has the 18" wheels as well - it's marginally more economical again on 17's.
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Thanks for that Michael - it raises interesting thoughts about car choice which should be helpful to the OP.
With costs ever increasing and disposable incomes contracting, car choice becomes more critical and depends not just on mileage but the type of driving that one's doing.
As an example, if you do fewer than, say, 12,000 miles a year but that mileage includes plenty of long trips, a large-engined petrol car like a 530i with manual transmission or DSG can still be quite good value as well as making those miles fun. There could be some bargains out there resulting from people selling their big cars and downsizing without thinking this through.
Even with an automatic this may still not be the end of the world: it's some time ago now (1998-2001) but I think I can remember averaging just under 30 mpg when I had a Laguna 3.0 V6 automatic. (Lovely car, and mine was totally reliable.)
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Perhaps not considered here, but maybe the image & 'baggage' associated with driving an ageing 'prestige' car is beginning to pall for the OP. Let's face it, old 530s & similiar are now moving onto the less desirable housing estates & are increasingly being driven by those displaying their interest in body art through the medium of subcutaneous indian ink.
An Audi Avant diesel , OTOH, probably says (even at 4-5 years old) suburban respectability & garden centre weekends. Both choices equally appalling from my perspective - I'd suggest a younger Skoda Octavia estate & forego the automatic.
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Perhaps not considered here but maybe the image & 'baggage' associated with driving an ageing 'prestige' car is beginning to pall for the OP. Let's face it old 530s & similiar are now moving onto the less desirable housing estates & are increasingly being driven by those displaying their interest in body art through the medium of subcutaneous indian ink.
I suspect this isn't a concern, given the model of A4 he is considering was introduced in 2000 at the same time as the facelift E39 5 Series, and is therefore just as popular a choice among the type you are discussing.
Besides, surely the negative image concerns are no worse than having everyone think the car you've just financed £10k+ from is merely a cheap hire vehicle from Enterprise a-la used Vectra ;)
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Well, the OP clearly 'needs' to get a different car - unfortunately he/she remains tight-lipped on the reasons for such. I'd suggest the dilemna is rather forced - the Audi, in my view, has very little to recommend it - it's just a quasi-prestige snobby car with poor dynamics & a sadly misunderstood perception of quality. Yes, the 530 is a magnificent specimen, but OP has clearly decided it must go - maybe not for anything related to my tongue-in-cheek references above - but go it must. The Audi at that age has far too much price vested in the name & not in the car, so will always be poor value - get a nice Octavia diesel - no nonsense & much more car value than name value.
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OP has clearly decided it must go
I would suggest the very fact he has posted this thread asking if he's really doing the right thing and expressing regret at his decision does rather suggest he has 'clearly' decided nothing of the sort.
He has asked us, specifically, which of the two cars is the better car and what we'd do in his position.
Edited by MichaelR on 15/07/2008 at 01:09
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What would I do?
Well, its become obvious to me. I'd keep the 530i.
I could then be Kane Dingle's stunt double :-)
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I think it's a good thing that I've no idea who you are talking about! :-)
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I have an A4 1.9TDi and although I can dismiss the perceived quality banter etc as one brand against the other, the truth is there is nothing between them in build quality and the Audi probably edges it on mechanical reliability.
However, as the OP I would stay firmly put behind the wheel of the BMW. Prices are in freefall at the minute in the car trade and now isnt a good time to be trading one car in for another. Your going to get low trade in prices against inflated retail prices!!
Best see what the clowns do first - a u turn might help trade in and the car market as a whole! Doesnt look like you do many miles and it doesnt matter how good the PD VAG engine is, it wont sound like a straight six :-) Enjoy it whilst you can before we are all driven to C1/Aygo or even worse a Prius!
Edited by bbroomlea{P} on 15/07/2008 at 01:47
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Hello All, thanks for your advice, this is the AUDI in question
www.gregflattcars.co.uk/vehicledetails.asp?Vehicle...4
Just to let you know......I HAVE DECIDED TO KEEP THE BMW!
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Just to let you know......I HAVE DECIDED TO KEEP THE BMW!
Excellent choice sir!
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I'm having difficulty deciding whether its worth upgrading my 530i Sport for something like newer E92 Coupe let alone a nasty diesel Audi estate!
You CAN'T change your car yet mate! I'm still in the line for your E39 but not for another couple of years!
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You CAN'T change your car yet mate! I'm still in the line for your E39 but not for another couple of years!
Every time I wash it I stand back and think 'Changing this is stupid' so you are probably still on course!
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Phew! That's a relief, I'm getting my Mondog converted to LPG next week which will take about 1 year to pay back, then after another year of saving and paying off parental debt I should be in the position to change again.
At that point you will notice a subtle change in my posts whereby i will start mentioning heresay stories about high mileage E39's blowing their engines up stranding the driver on a motorway in heavy rain which will be coupled with links to amazing pictures of the E92 and Autotrader links to good deals... I'll then offer to take the old barge off your hands, and you'll thank me. That's how it works in my head anyway :-)
Edited by Blue {P} on 15/07/2008 at 12:44
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You can get a low mileage M54B30 engine for about a grand these days so it'll take more than that ;)
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A very wise choice. Well done, and continue to enjoy. The E39 was and still is a terrific car.
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What a contest this thread has become.....!
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Just shows, even if a car is newer and has better fuel economy does not make it necessarily better!
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