The junction I am talking about is the M3 J4a coming from the Southbound carriageway.
You exit the motorway, loop round 180° and come to a roundabout at which you can turn left to go back over the motorway, or right towards Farnborough (mentioned for ease of reference later).
100 yds or so before the roundabout itself, a separate left hand lane appears which becomes a left filter lane. Separating this lane from the roundabout, and traffic coming off the roundabout from Farnborough, is a large concrete "island" with kerbstones. In other words, it's very distinctive.
As you take this filter lane to turn left, the island eventually tapers and disappears to merge with the traffic flow coming from Farnborough. It is at this point that I am confused as to rights of way.
Traffic from both the motorway, and from Farnborough join a single carriageway (motorway bridge). There are no Give Way signs anywhere, and no road markings of any description except for those coming from the Farnborough direction who are treated to one of those curved, left pointing painted arrows on the road that you always see in advance of a double white line on a single carriageway. This is placed just before the concrete island disappears and the two roads merge.
Who has right of way here - the traffic coming from the motorway, or the traffic coming from Farnborough, and what is the significance of the arrow?
I only ask because I had an somewhat heated debate through open windows with a chap in a white van yesterday, and it's been bothering me whether I'm right or not. ;-)
Cheers
DP
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Do you mean this location:
View it from all four points of the compass - press "Bird's Eye" button and zoom in to max for close-up views.
M3 jct 4a with A327
maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Point.sjh33tgy05vh_M3%20jct%...1
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Do you mean this location:
Yep, that's the one, I work about a mile from there so I'm depressingly familiar with it.
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I work about a mile from there so I'm depressingly familiar with it.
Is that you in that black car going round and round the roundabout? [seen in all bird's eye views except the N>S view which seems to be a mystery location!].
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Nah, my current Vectra is a lovely shade of green ;-) Thankfully I'm usually going from the northbound carriageway of the M3 to Southwood, so I don't get involved in the tussles exiting the southbound carriageway too often.
Yes, there's something bizarre going on if you put south at the top of the bird's eye view isn't there! You're in the middle of a housing estate, but the road overlay still shows the roundabout.
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Instinctively, I would have thought that traffic merging from the left would have to cede to traffic coming from the Farnborough direction, as per traffic filtering onto a dual carriageway or motorway. However, the arrows sound like they complicate things as they seem to make it look like traffic from the right should be filtering back in prior to their lane being lost. In practice, I guess I'd just practise very careful defensive driving whichever direction I was coming from!
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I know the place you've described. I usually glance right and if a vehicle is approaching from the roundabout I slow and let that vehicle in.If its clear I continue at normal speed.The arrow indicates to the drivers coming from the RAB that they have to merge with traffic on their left.
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The arrow indicates to the drivers coming from the RAB that they have to merge with traffic on their left.
I.M.O., traffic in right hand lane of the main carriageway has priority over left hand lane; but as always you have to be alert and take care that the driver in the left lane has seen you and is giving way.
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That's the one, and clearly visible in birds eye view!!
I interpret the arrows the same way as Scribe suggests. White van man did not. That said, I have negotiated this almost every working day for the past 2.5 yrs and this is the first problem I've had. I just can't work out what's the "correct" way to approach it, apart from the very sensible suggestion of defensively.
Cheers
DP
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The biggest vehicle!!!Just don't make eye contact.
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The biggest vehicle!!!Just don't make eye contact.
Yes, that seemed to be his approach.
I was half a car length ahead of him in a line of traffic moving at about 30 mph joining from the motorway as we drove along either side of the island. Instead of slotting in behind me, he stayed alongside and tried to force his way across regardless, and then got very upset when I refused to brake.
I could have easily defused the situation and yielded, but for some stupid reason, I didn't. Silly, really.
Cheers
DP
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If you had touched would you have used those words in describing what happened to a policeman or on your insurance claim?
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No. I fully admit it was unnecessary and stupid.
Cheers
DP
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Looking at the map, I'd say that the left hand lane has priority. The right hand lane contains the merge in arrows, indicating that drivers in that lane need to get into the left lane. However, this does rely on people in the left making room for people on the right.
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I tend to work on the basis of discretion is the better part of valour rather than who has right of way.
Shakespeare, in Henry IV, Part One, 1596:
Falstaff: 'The better part of valour is discretion; in the which better part I have saved my life.'
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I know this junction quite well to and treat it in the same way as i do most others. Generally speaking i find, whoever has the biggest vehicle has right of way... never me! if in doubt, whoever has the cheapest vehicle wins.
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The hooked arrow would tend to indicate the traffic from Farnborough should merge left, so the onus (but maybe not a legal obligation) is to move across and merge with the traffic already in the left lane. Isn't there some general precedent though, that you should always give way to vehicles on your right?
The other thing is, that if you're ahead and he simply drives in to the side of your car, then he surely would be guilty of careless (or maybe maybe dangerous) driving?
I guess the circumstances are the same as any where 2 lanes merge into one - there's one I use most days and it's always a battle of wills. Traffic going straight through a roundabout from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock clogs the left lane - I (and others) approach from the 3 o'clock position so have no alternative but to come off the roundabout into the right lane, which immediately ends.
The hooked arrow is in the left lane urging the driver to move to their right so I'm convinced that we have priority in the right lane but drivers in the left lane (barely moving) do everything they can to block us out. I was so annoyed recently at a Porsche that left a gap and then blocked me as I merged that I drove at his car - but he thankfully sprinted out of the way.
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