"he had been driving sensibly at no more than 20 mph'
"allergic to the nanny state"
"a bit of holiday daftness"
Oh, I see, sensible was it? Would like to see how sensible it would appear if that child in front seat had hit the windscreen at 20mph? Followed by a dozen other children/people?
"Allergic to nanny state?"
Wonder how many of them were wearing seatbelts? Is that "nannying"? or a sensible safety measure - especially for children - must remember your disregard for the "rules" next time I stick 40 kids in a 15 seat minibus for a school trip?
No matter what speed he was doing it wouldn't help if 44 tonnes of truck hit the back of his car.
"holiday daftness"
why not stick a couple of people on the roof
Trouble is "I was only having a laugh" is an excuse for anything these days - how can we punish people for using a phone etc if we allow 13 in a car designed for 5?.
As for comparing with how many could be squeezed in mini etc, I seem to remember this sort of thing was done with a stationary car - and a bunch of drunken students (like me).
And he was a teacher - a fine example to set to so many young children.
One might also ask how all these people got from Tottenham to N Wales - were they all in the car for that journey up the M1, M6, M53, A55 - at a sensible 20mph?
Stupid, stupid, stupid and dangerous - and he deserved what he got. Wonder what your reaction would have been to his "holiday daftness" if he had hit an oncoming car/truck and those nine children in the car were all injured/killed
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Agreed Phil - btw with the mini records I think the car had to move for about 10ft to qualify for the record!
All I'll say about the comments/photo of the motorcyclist is that I'm glad we value our people more than they do... perhaps people are just a "commodity" over there, to be used and discarded after use....?
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"Allergic to nanny state?" Wonder how many of them were wearing seatbelts? Is that "nannying"? or a sensible safety measure - especially for children - must remember your disregard for the "rules" next time I stick 40 kids in a 15 seat minibus for a school trip? No matter what speed he was doing it wouldn't help if 44 tonnes of truck hit the back of his car.
Stupid stupid stupid and dangerous - and he deserved what he got.
Phil, I don't believe in disregard for rules. He broke the law, and the law must be upheld.
I do not, however, believe that this law is appropriate. When I was a kid, there were two seat belts in fronts seats, and none in rear. There were sometimes several of us in the car. We sometimes sat in the boot of our estate. My parents were not stupid, let alone stupid, stupid, stupid. And dangerous? Well, life is dangerous.
>>Wonder what yourreaction would have been to his "holiday daftness" if he had hit an oncoming car/truck and those nine children in the car were all injured/killed
My reaction would have been "Sad, but that's life. Accidents happen. He chose to take that risk, and that was the outcome. Branches fall off trees and kill kids on school trips. Nanny statists respond by calling for laws about trees. I respond by saying "these things happen." You cannot make life safe by legislation."
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Saw a car stopped by police in France;looked like the passengers had got in and then everything(including the kitchen sink)had been piled on top;there were bags jammed in upto the roof and all the windows-had to leave so didn't see outcome.
Also in France,someone had dumped a reasonable three-piece suite at the side of the road-it was in an area where the council collected from-saw a small car there and a husband and wife trying to tie the sofa onto the roof of their car-I went past a couple of hours later and the whole suite was gone.
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"I went past a couple of hours later and the whole suite was gone."
Hence the expression tout de suite ;-)
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What an idiot. Scary to think that he is a teacher - I wouldn't want him taking my kids on a school trip. I thought the punishment was about right. I don't think not allowing piles of kids in cars and making you wear a seatbelt is the nanny-state gone mad, just seems quite sensible to me.
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Yawn. Was anyone hurt or killed? Did it even look as if someone would be?
I recommend a trip by matatu in East Africa to anyone shocked or appalled by this. 70mph on dirt roads in a plywood box built over the truckbed of a Peugeot 404 pick-up, load up to 14 passengers plus chickens and luggage. One couldn't help keeping one's fingers crossed actually but the driving was pretty well impeccable given the time and pace constraints, and the fares of course were highly competitive. But I suppose most of the 404s must be dead by now.
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Would that be the Matatus the government in Kenya want to ban to stop the carnage on the roads?
For some reason the name sounds like a derivation on Spanish for Kill you.
From Nairobi Journal.
Forget this country's flagging economy and rampant corruption. The hottest political issue in Kenya these days is what to do about the local version of mass transit: those speeding, overloaded, exhaust-belching minibuses and minivans known as matatus.
A plan to install speed-recording devices on the minivans to reduce the number of traffic deaths has set off a political storm that has been felt all the way up to President Daniel arap Moi's office. The devices are small computers that record speed, braking distances, fuel consumption and other data, and the police can tap into them when they stop a vehicle.
The matatu owners and drivers, a powerful and volatile lobby, have staged strikes, held rallies and promised to make the gadgets -- nicknamed black boxes -- a litmus test in the coming presidential election. Earlier this month, the President shelved the plan indefinitely.
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There was 8 person fatal on Anglesey in around 1990 - all in the same van.
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"Yawn. Was anyone hurt or killed? Did it even look as if someone would be?"
Sorry Lud, find most of your posts very entertaining and erudite, but got to disagree here. Are you suggesting that we should ignore the dangers implicit in carrying 13 unbelted(mostly kids ) in a car in UK because worse goes on in E Africa?
Fact that no-one died apparently excuses any irresponsible behaviour as long as no-one dies. I'm pretty sure that 90% of time I could drive past schools at 100 mph and not hit a kid. Doesn't make it right thing to do - same with all those red lights I stop at - wouldn't hit any other car most times if I just ignored them. And those bald tyres, knackered brakes etc - yawn, yawn, who cares, no-one died - until that time they did - and it was yours or mine.
Just going to drive down pub, might have half a dozen pints, drive back, OK as long as I don't plough ino a pedestrian.
Regards
Phil
Edited by PhilW on 26/06/2008 at 01:46
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PhilW, I don't really think people should drive about with unsecured overloads of nippers in their cars. Just pointing out that much worse is commonplace elsewhere, and wondering why people get so het up about it. I think the Volvo referred to in the OP was just ferrying children about at low urban speeds, which may have been illegal but wasn't very dangerous. It would be another matter on a motorway or fast A road.
Having grown up in a different era, when people were polite and deferential to each other although half the world was striving officially to kill the other half, I find a lot of today's customs and restrictions laughable when not actually irritating and offensive. I suppose they just seem normal to a lot of people.
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First off, when younger managed to get 5 adults and myself into a 3 door Polo for a short trip. But we were all adults, knew the risks and potential stupidity and was able to decide for ourselves.
My problem with this guy is this. Often have swap our cars from driveway to road. No more than 20 metres. Did it once with eldest daughter in the car, who was standing. It is truly shocking how much she was affected even below 10mph and gentle acceleration. Have not done it since- not worried about crashing, but purely the fact her footing was so bad on the move was worried was going to fall over. I really do dread to think what it was like in this Volvo with numerous children stood up.
PS- ever been on an Airport shuttle bus? Very wobbly.
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Lud
Two minor points - firstly even at low speeds at lot of damage to the passengers could have taken place and then our NHS would have had to pick up the bill - a;; for something that was avoidable (as well as illegal)...
Secondly I too was brought up in a different era, but roads were much quieter in those days and therefore you were less likely to hit anything - even so the road deaths were a lot higher..
I tend to agree with the generalisation that the "nanny state" has gone too far in many cases, getting rid of common sense in the process, but road safety is something that I feel has improved from my childhood and in view of the numbers of vehicles on our roads it is fortunate that we are not lumbered with the cars of the 50s and 60s....
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Also in France someone had dumped a reasonable three-piece suite at the side of the road-it was in an area where the council collected from-saw a small car there and a husband and wife trying to tie the sofa onto the roof of their car-I went past a couple of hours later and the whole suite was gone.
What's wrong with that? I rescued a nice 30s suite in Carmarthen a few years ago, put out for the dustmen. The sofa went in the back, the two chairs on the roof rack. That's what Volvo estates are for.
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